During the sign of peace, why do my fellow catholics seem so cold?

[IesumPerMariam]

Lucky you were born now… it used to be that the sign of peace as a kiss on the mouth.

True, but it only extended to those within the Sanctuary and Chancel, except in the case of a major civil dignitary (e.g. a king, crown prince, etc) assisting at the Holy Sacrifice.

The laity only received the peace via the clergy.

 

[Allegra]

Whether or not you “know” someone is not what is important. When you attend Mass, you are doing so as a community where you “know” on a personal level people there are not, you are doing so as a family of faith. That doesn’t mean pom-pom hellos but one can do a simple smile to those around them even if they are not comfortable to shake hands. There is nothing wrong with this, it is part of Mass to acknowledge those around you whether you ‘know’ them or not and it might do yourself some good and get you out of a box of “me and Jesus”.

The OP was complaining about “limp handshakes”, not people who are refusing to look at anyone. It would seem that the people in the OP’s parish do extend the sign of peace toward each other, but the OP feels that they aren’t enthusiastic enough about it. I feel it is disrespectful of you to make this about me and comment on the state of my relationship with God and others. I’ve never had any difficulty with the sign of peace, either offering it to others, or accepting it graciously in whatever form others feel comfortable giving it to me. I am capable, however, of recognizing the fact that it may be uncomfortable for other people and I don’t feel personally offended if they don’t do it with the same exuberance I do.

 

[Christopher1290]

I don’t think I’m twisting your words. I think you’re missing my point. Have you ever suffered from severe depression or a mental illness? Have you ever been to the point of despair that you can’t feel any love? Should someone that desperately needs Jesus in the Eucharist stay at home because they can not feel any love in themselves? Is that being dishonest? I don’t believe it is.

I’d caution you to not assume someone is healthy or not just by appearances.

Listen to what you are saying. Is everyone in mass suffering despair and depression or have a mental illness? Are they coming to mass every week miserable? If that was the case than who would want to go to mass with a congregation full of people feeling sorry for them self? Im not telling the hurt people to stay home, i don’t know why you think that. I lost close people in my life, very close, but i don’t take that into the celebration of mass, i know what my miseries are and i keep that with God, i don’t spread it to everyone else around me, God heals me. And if anyone else is suffering from these ailments you speak of than let God help them and they should let God help them. The Church is one of the only good places left on earth and people usually go for an hour a week. We are celebrating a mass, if everyone is miserable than there is no celebration.

Its possible for people who suffer to show happiness, you know why? Because its about appreciating your life, no matter what pain you suffer, if you suffer for God’s sake than there is happiness because this life is so short and eternal life is forever. Sounds like more people need to appreciate their life more because there is always someone who has it worse than you.

 

[revert_jen]

Frankly, I never understood how one can be reconciled with God and preparing for the Eucharist and still not have a glint of joy in one’s eyes. I’ve never been able to maintain a stone face in circumstances - for I’m in God’s house, with God’s people, in about to get a fore-taste of the feast to come.

My body reflects the song in my heart.

You are lucky. Everyone is different. Sometimes I am like that. Sometimes I am thinking of my sins and unworthiness. Sometimes contemplation of the mystery of the Eucharist means I am in an attitude of wonder or confusion. Sometimes, frankly, I am not able to concentrate the way I would like. Sometimes I am concentrating so much that the sign of peace takes me by surprise.

I pretty much smile at everyone anyway, because I’m fortunate not to have a problem with it, even though I don’t personally like the sign of peace. Partly this is because of where it is in the Mass, and partly because if you attend Mass alone, you spend the first half of the time waiting for everyone to finish greeting their own families, and the second half of the time trying not to let anyone feel left out. I feel like I’m not doing a good job of it and that I’m being judged on my performance. Apparently, from some of the posts on this thread, I am.

One of the great things about the Catholic Church is that it welcomes all people. Rich, poor, on every continent, of every race, social and non-social, even joyful and solemn.

–Jen

 

[erine]

Failure to extend Fellowship to others, that they dont feel welcome, accepted, or even rejected from Church has to be in the class of a huge mortal sin, a sin that one could never truely go to a Priest and say, God forgive me.

that would be a true case of alienation, aleination cannot be reasoned away, it must be healed.
to not show fellowship towards others in Church, to drive even one soul from the house of God would look tobe a huge fault, and also call one to recognize their war on religion that the fight for evils way…

The human nature to be gifted with the gift of a Kingpin, (that which Jesus was the ultimate of)that gift that gives the natural ability to lead others.
Yet the greatest act of failure is to be that as a kingpiin would be the star of Church and all would want you to shake their hand and associate. but if you set a precident that you as a king pin did NOT extend hospitality, fellowship and welcome to all…as the leader, then you would be the greatest example of failure in humanity…

To be giftted with the ability to lead others as a kingpin, but to set a precident of rejection, bigotry, shunning, and defiance to others, is the greatest of failure, but yet a common sense in many Catholic churchs is the issue.

First of all you cannot judge yourself what is a mortal sin for anyone. Secondly there is no sin that can’t be forgiven in confession!
Also I used to think I had to be like a salesperson for the church, always smiling and talking about answered prayers to attract people. But I was wrong, the church is for human beings and people respond more to my religion when I am being my true self, whatever is going on with me. We aren’t supposed to be people pleasing. People who are catholic and not always in a chipper mood to everyone around them are not necessarily sinning at all.

As for the replies to this thread, I don’t understand why feeling awkward at the sign of peace because it feels forced, is somehow the same as always being cold to everyone. I am warm to people just I feel weird at mass during the peace usually.

Here is how I feel during mass: reverent, spiritually sensitive and overwhelmed by what is happening, so sensitive emotionally I don’t want to look at the altar always let alone even my best friend next to me. I feel awkward doing the peace even to my best friend. Because its forced. When I hug her out of spontaneous joy outside of mass that is real.

I was abused and I have anxiety and I hate forced polite affection and it is not my favorite thing. If you over think things like me you worry if you left someone out.

Oh don’t forget when I like a guy or if a guy there likes me he is always using the peace to make sure to shake my hand, and I’m probably using it as an excuse to see if he is there. Let’s just admit this happens a lot. At least to everyone where I am. So reverent, lol.

After mass: I am so relaxed and happy that I hang out with my friends for several hours and bond with them.

Furthermore it is sort of ridiculous to judge people who dont always feel giddiness when they go for communion. First of all feeling in a perky mood is not the same as joy. Sometimes I’m bubbly but other times I am serious. It’s not a sin and I’m not less devoted to Christ somehow.
Secondly I usually am really desperate to receive the Eucharist and am just in awe I get it. People express joy differently.

None if this is false piety.

I am affectionate with people I trust and I like it to mean something.

Btw I would be fine if we were still in a time when everyone kissed each other full out. Because that is fully embracing the meaning of the sign of peace since it is so blatantly warm. If our culture was naturally that warm I would be all for it. I like that. But we don’t live in that culture, we live in a culture that is more distant and we give little awkward waves that seem strained. And plenty of people that are snooty to me in the rest of life give me the perfect restrained smiley peace wave!

So in conclusion of you like it that’s fine but it’s really silly to judge the people who feel weird. Saying some one who is shy is automatically a snob is something I thought people knew better than by now.

 

[Ridgerunner]

During the sign of peace, I force myself to beam a smile even when my fellow catholics give me a limp handshake and no smile. It’s like this every week with different people.

Why are they so unfriendly?

I went to an anglican church and I get smiles from the canons and people seem nice and warm?

My personal theory is that the catholic church emphasizes penitence above love whilst the anglicans emphasize love above penitence. Different emphasis leads to different christian character profiles.

I don’t want to be anglican, because I’m doctrinally catholic. I think moral duty is important.

ps/ I think like some others that the sign of peace should be placed elsewhere in the order of Mass, I do find it hard to concentrate on the Lamb of God after the sign of Peace.

It varies a lot from parish to parish. In some, it’s almost like “party time”. People wander out of their pews and go up and down the aisles. In some, it’s more “correct and polite”. Personally, I prefer the latter to the former, which I find enormously distracting.

 

[BillyT926]

Listen to what you are saying. Is everyone in mass suffering despair and depression or have a mental illness? Are they coming to mass every week miserable? If that was the case than who would want to go to mass with a congregation full of people feeling sorry for them self? Im not telling the hurt people to stay home, i don’t know why you think that. I lost close people in my life, very close, but i don’t take that into the celebration of mass, i know what my miseries are and i keep that with God, i don’t spread it to everyone else around me, God heals me. And if anyone else is suffering from these ailments you speak of than let God help them and they should let God help them. The Church is one of the only good places left on earth and people usually go for an hour a week. We are celebrating a mass, if everyone is miserable than there is no celebration.

Its possible for people who suffer to show happiness, you know why? Because its about appreciating your life, no matter what pain you suffer, if you suffer for God’s sake than there is happiness because this life is so short and eternal life is forever. Sounds like more people need to appreciate their life more because there is always someone who has it worse than you.

You’re telling people how to act in an environment that isn’t just about community. It’s also about a personal relationship with Christ.

 

[BillyT926]

Lucky you were born now… it used to be that the sign of peace as a kiss on the mouth.

Frankly, I never understood how one can be reconciled with God and preparing for the Eucharist and still not have a glint of joy in one’s eyes. I’ve never been able to maintain a stone face in circumstances - for I’m in God’s house, with God’s people, in about to get a fore-taste of the feast to come.

My body reflects the song in my heart.

Now I certainly don’t think the sign of peace is a 4 minute social break, but to be completely dour also escapes me.

different strokes for different folks

I’m not dour, but I am serene

 

[erine]

Listen to what you are saying. Is everyone in mass suffering despair and depression or have a mental illness? Are they coming to mass every week miserable? If that was the case than who would want to go to mass with a congregation full of people feeling sorry for them self? Im not telling the hurt people to stay home, i don’t know why you think that. I lost close people in my life, very close, but i don’t take that into the celebration of mass, i know what my miseries are and i keep that with God, i don’t spread it to everyone else around me, God heals me. And if anyone else is suffering from these ailments you speak of than let God help them and they should let God help them. The Church is one of the only good places left on earth and people usually go for an hour a week. We are celebrating a mass, if everyone is miserable than there is no celebration.

Its possible for people who suffer to show happiness, you know why? Because its about appreciating your life, no matter what pain you suffer, if you suffer for God’s sake than there is happiness because this life is so short and eternal life is forever. Sounds like more people need to appreciate their life more because there is always someone who has it worse than you.

Please don’t take this personally, but to me this sort of attitude is so ridiculous ! Lots of people seem to think this way. I saw a book called Saints are not Sad. Christians are not sad in the resignation to death and mediocrity way of the world, but sorrow is real and shouldn’t be denied. Remember “Mourning and weeping in this valley of tears?”

I’m sorry but Jesus was sorrowful unto death, Mary had seven sorrows and so did Joseph and all the saints. Plenty of people have sorrows that aren’t self pity. I for one am immensely moved when I see someone at adoration in tears, pleading desperately with Jesus outloud, or giving huge sighs. It is so honest and it makes me realize I am not alone. And that when something is tragic it is ok to admit it is so.

People feel deep things. Christianity is not a religion about putting on a false front. King David’s psalms were full of the depths of misery and the heights of joy. Rachel would not be consoled when her children were no more. People tear their garments and stuff in the Bible. Jesus was sorrowful unto death, and when he told his apostles this fact he wasn’t “spreading it around.” If he hadnt said things like this and pretended to be fine, think about how many suffering people would thunk Jesus didnt understand their pain, and not trust Him. St. Paul writes that we have a high priest who has felt all our depths of pain, not someone who has never been there and haughtily looks down on us. That is the entire reason He became flesh; to take on our sins and our burdens and share in our condition out of His infinite love.

There have been times in my life when only relating to Mary the Mother of Sorrows could console me. I am glad she has this title along with all her others. What if the church refused to give her this title, and I had entered despair because of not being able to find anything spiritual to console me?

All this anguish powerfully expressed in scripture says to me that unlike modern pop psychology, God wants us to honestly experience the depths of human emotion and when something really painful is happening, we should trust and love Him and bear it for Him, but we are not obligated to pretend it isn’t happening! Jesus forgave them on the cross for they didn’t know what they were doing. Which in itself means they were clearly doing something atrocious. He didn’t say “don’t worry, Dad, it isn’t so bad to be nailed to a cross, I should just change my attitude and if will be fine!”.

I would rather see people being honest than everyone being forced to have a lukewarm smile all the time in the world and people fearing outpourings of emotion. People were so offended when Mary Magdalene poured her oil on Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair, but we all know that is one of the most moving things in scripture.

The same expression should be given to joys, if people feel moved. Like when Moses danced in praise of Yahweh. When I am honest about my suffering it allows me to fully experience my authentic joys.

 

[robwar]

To answer the question, we must consider the liturgical history and significance of the Kiss of Peace.

In the TLM, the Kiss of Peace was done by the celebrant kissing the altar (which of course symbolizes Christ, and at this point has the Body and Blood of Christ resting upon it). The celebrant then takes that kiss of peace from Christ and turns to the deacon, kissing him. The deacon takes this kiss of peace from Christ to the subdeacon, then the acolytes, thurifer, and clergy assisting in choro.

In the TLM it is made perfectly clear that the peace comes from Christ Who is present upon the altar, and is sent from Christ to the Faithful via the clergy. At the Mass of Paul VI I do not participate in the “Sign of Peace” because I have no peace to offer, as I am not Christ, and have not received His peace via kissing the altar or a cleric who has kissed the altar.

what an attitude.

 

[PatriceA]

Listen to what you are saying. Is everyone in mass suffering despair and depression or have a mental illness? Are they coming to mass every week miserable? If that was the case than who would want to go to mass with a congregation full of people feeling sorry for them self? Im not telling the hurt people to stay home, i don’t know why you think that. I lost close people in my life, very close, but i don’t take that into the celebration of mass, i know what my miseries are and i keep that with God, i don’t spread it to everyone else around me, God heals me. And if anyone else is suffering from these ailments you speak of than let God help them and they should let God help them. The Church is one of the only good places left on earth and people usually go for an hour a week. We are celebrating a mass, if everyone is miserable than there is no celebration.

Its possible for people who suffer to show happiness, you know why? Because its about appreciating your life, no matter what pain you suffer, if you suffer for God’s sake than there is happiness because this life is so short and eternal life is forever. Sounds like more people need to appreciate their life more because there is always someone who has it worse than you.

It is very, very clear you have no comprehension of people suffering from severe depression and other serious health issues. It is not always possible to “show happiness”. You can not tell someone to just appreciate their life more and all will be better.

 

[BillyT926]

what an attitude.

Why are you judging him for this?

 

[robwar]

It’s not false piety. People have different levels of comfort and also different views of the normative aspects of Mass. It’s a non-essential component of Mass. We abolished it at my church due to flu season. Nobody misses it. I don’t care if people do it, or not. I don’t judge them one way or the other.

non-essential, what give you the ability to state what is essential in Mass or not? During the flue season, yes there was an announcement not to shake hands at the kiss of peace but it wasn’t abolished. It was recommended to smile at people which I generally what I am talking about. Are you a liturgical expert in stating what is or isn’t essential at Mass and what should or shouldn’t be at Mass?

 

[BillyT926]

non-essential, what give you the ability to state what is essential in Mass or not? During the flue season, yes there was an announcement not to shake hands at the kiss of peace but it wasn’t abolished. It was recommended to smile at people which I generally what I am talking about. Are you a liturgical expert in stating what is or isn’t essential at Mass and what should or shouldn’t be at Mass?

It’s not-essential because it can be easily suppressed, colds, flu etc. Like Communion under Both Species for the laity. It’s fine to have, not a requirement.

Your attitude toward people here is atrocious.

 

[Christopher1290]

Please don’t take this personally, but to me this sort of attitude is so ridiculous ! Lots of people seem to think this way. I saw a book called Saints are not Sad. Christians are not sad in the resignation to death and mediocrity way of the world, but sorrow is real and shouldn’t be denied. Remember “Mourning and weeping in this valley of tears?”

I’m sorry but Jesus was sorrowful unto death, Mary had seven sorrows and so did Joseph and all the saints. Plenty of people have sorrows that aren’t self pity. I for one am immensely moved when I see someone at adoration in tears, pleading desperately with Jesus outloud, or giving huge sighs. It is so honest and it makes me realize I am not alone. And that when something is tragic it is ok to admit it is so.

People feel deep things. Christianity is not a religion about putting on a false front. King David’s psalms were full of the depths of misery and the heights of joy. Rachel would not be consoled when her children were no more. People tear their garments and stuff in the Bible. Jesus was sorrowful unto death, and when he told his apostles this fact he wasn’t “spreading it around.” If he hadnt said things like this and pretended to be fine, think about how many suffering people would thunk Jesus didnt understand their pain, and not trust Him. St. Paul writes that we have a high priest who has felt all our depths of pain, not someone who has never been there and haughtily looks down on us. That is the entire reason He became flesh; to take on our sins and our burdens and share in our condition out of His infinite love.

There have been times in my life when only relating to Mary the Mother of Sorrows could console me. I am glad she has this title along with all her others. What if the church refused to give her this title, and I had entered despair because of not being able to find anything spiritual to console me?

All this anguish powerfully expressed in scripture says to me that unlike modern pop psychology, God wants us to honestly experience the depths of human emotion and when something really painful is happening, we should trust and love Him and bear it for Him, but we are not obligated to pretend it isn’t happening! Jesus forgave them on the cross for they didn’t know what they were doing. Which in itself means they were clearly doing something atrocious. He didn’t say “don’t worry, Dad, it isn’t so bad to be nailed to a cross, I should just change my attitude and if will be fine!”.

I would rather see people being honest than everyone being forced to have a lukewarm smile all the time in the world and people fearing outpourings of emotion. People were so offended when Mary Magdalene poured her oil on Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair, but we all know that is one of the most moving things in scripture.

The same expression should be given to joys, if people feel moved. Like when Moses danced in praise of Yahweh. When I am honest about my suffering it allows me to fully experience my authentic joys.

I find all this a bit funny, somehow this has turned into some kind of argument when i didn’t mean it to go this way. Its starting to go way off topic. Lets get back on the train track again. This isn’t a message just to you, but anyone that is starting to read my posts the wrong way. This has never been an argument, nor am i trying to debate with anyone because this isn’t something that can be won. Mass is for everyone and i never stated anywhere that it wasn’t.

I know that people have their own convictions inside and need to come to God in tears. This is where im drawing the line though because this is getting so far beyond what i was originally talking about. All i am talking about is the sign of peace which lasts for like 30 seconds, i am not in anyway telling anyone how to be in church. If so many people are uncomfortable with the sign of peace, then why have it at all, its like its controversial or something. For at least 30 seconds you should be able to show respect for those around you, if anyone tries to take what i said and apply it to the entire mass than you are taking my words off topic, im sorry if i made people think otherwise, but im strictly talking about the 30 seconds of the sign of peace and nothing else. Ill admit i got off track myself thats because someone was trying to pull me off track for not understanding what i said.

 

[JillianRose]

During the sign of peace, I force myself to beam a smile even when my fellow catholics give me a limp handshake and no smile. It’s like this every week with different people.

Why are they so unfriendly?

I went to an anglican church and I get smiles from the canons and people seem nice and warm?

My personal theory is that the catholic church emphasizes penitence above love whilst the anglicans emphasize love above penitence. Different emphasis leads to different christian character profiles.

I don’t want to be anglican, because I’m doctrinally catholic. I think moral duty is important.

ps/ I think like some others that the sign of peace should be placed elsewhere in the order of Mass, I do find it hard to concentrate on the Lamb of God after the sign of Peace.

Sometimes before Mass starts my priest makes us hug!!! LOL I would not mind eliminating the sign of peace though! LOL

 

[Slaney]

Lucky you were born now… it used to be that the sign of peace as a kiss on the mouth.

Well as long as she’s good looking i’ll go for it, don’t care for kissing the men. Was born in 1958…

Frankly, I never understood how one can be reconciled with God and preparing for the Eucharist and still not have a glint of joy in one’s eyes. I’ve never been able to maintain a stone face in circumstances - for I’m in God’s house, with God’s people, in about to get a fore-taste of the feast to come.

My body reflects the song in my heart.

Now I certainly don’t think the sign of peace is a 4 minute social break, but to be completely dour also escapes me.

We don’t know what is in a person heart by the smile on their face, that person could have buried their husband, their child…who knows what trouble is on their mind… mortgages,bills, problem children…

The we have the 20 yard dash crew that when the crowd isn’t so large insist on going around the Church like no tomorrow, tripping over themselves on the way, it seems a bit disrupting sometimes…

On the other hand our priest’s wait outside at the end of Mass and shake hands with everyone, it’s genuine and doesn’t distract from the Mass.

 

[Slaney]

if you say peace to others and pray for peace, but dont extend a sincere fellowship to others, then your a mere liar, and liars go to hell.

An awful lot of people going to hell, your not standing for Pope are yeh ?

 

[IesumPerMariam]

what an attitude.

Could you please enlighten me as to what “attitude” it is that I have? I was simply giving some basic history of the Kiss of Peace…

 

[robwar]

Why are you judging him for this?

because it is a bad attitude and that is why. He is coming obviously from Latin rite. I think a majority on here attend NO Masses. I don’t go to EF Masses for the following reasons, it isn’t available and I do live in a large archdiocese, 2. I have been completely turned off by attitudes and condescending superiority on CAF by those that do. Again we are talking about kiss of peace in a NO Mass which is what a majority of Catholic whether you or he like it or not attend Also, whether you want to agree with this or not, many adults that do come into the Catholic Church and when they start attending Mass do find the Catholic Church as cold and unfriendly. Giving someone a basic smile during the kiss of peace which is part of the NO Mass whether they know those around them, feel like it or not is what I think the OP was trying to discuss. Yes, one of the complaint was wimpy handshakes which it would be better to raise your hand nod and smile than give someone a wimpy handshake which communicates rudeness whether it was meant or not.