During the sign of peace, why do my fellow catholics seem so cold?

[robwar]

Could you please enlighten me as to what “attitude” it is that I have? I was simply giving some basic history of the Kiss of Peace…

injecting EF Mass stuff in a thread that is obviously about NO Mass and the kiss of peace.
It comes across as superiority. That may be your Mass of preference and attendance but majority of Catholics attend NO Masses.

 

[IesumPerMariam]

because it is a bad attitude and that is why. He is coming obviously from Latin rite. I think a majority on here attend NO Masses. I don’t go to EF Masses for the following reasons, it isn’t available and I do live in a large archdiocese, 2. I have been completely turned off by attitudes and condescending superiority on CAF by those that do. Again we are talking about kiss of peace in a NO Mass which is what a majority of Catholic whether you or he like it or not attend Also, whether you want to agree with this or not, many adults that do come into the Catholic Church and when they start attending Mass do find the Catholic Church as cold and unfriendly. Giving someone a basic smile during the kiss of peace which is part of the NO Mass whether they know those around them, feel like it or not is what I think the OP was trying to discuss. Yes, one of the complaint was wimpy handshakes which it would be better to raise your hand nod and smile than give someone a wimpy handshake which communicates rudeness whether it was meant or not.

But the Mass of Paul VI is following in the Latin liturgical tradition, is it not? Ergo, the Kiss of Peace as it is found in the traditional Latin Rite is the historical foundation of the modern-day “Sign of Peace” in our average parishes.

If not, then you are promoting a hermeneutic of rupture, which is against forum rules, and against the teaching authority of the Church.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

To answer the question, we must consider the liturgical history and significance of the Kiss of Peace.

In the TLM, the Kiss of Peace was done by the celebrant kissing the altar (which of course symbolizes Christ, and at this point has the Body and Blood of Christ resting upon it). The celebrant then takes that kiss of peace from Christ and turns to the deacon, kissing him. The deacon takes this kiss of peace from Christ to the subdeacon, then the acolytes, thurifer, and clergy assisting in choro.

In the TLM it is made perfectly clear that the peace comes from Christ Who is present upon the altar, and is sent from Christ to the Faithful via the clergy. At the Mass of Paul VI I do not participate in the “Sign of Peace” because I have no peace to offer, as I am not Christ, and have not received His peace via kissing the altar or a cleric who has kissed the altar.

Thanks for explaining that. I had not realized how the sign of peace had come about into the OF of the mass. I knew that Pope Paul VI was the first to turn to the people and instruct them to offer the sign of peace to each other. I attend both the EF and the OF and I have noticed the differences happening at that moment at mass but also the similarities.

I, also get what you are saying. It is not that you don’t have “peace” to offer people but at that point at mass you are not Christ offering peace to those there as Christ did when he offered peace to the Apostles in the Upper Room.

 

[IesumPerMariam]

I, also get what you are saying. It is not that you don’t have “peace” to offer people but at that point at mass you are not Christ offering peace to those there as Christ did when he offered peace to the Apostles in the Upper Room.

Exactly. If folks want to chat after Mass, I am always happy to have a friendly conversation in the narthex or outside the door. But there is a huge difference between that sublime peace that can only come from Christ Himself Who is present upon the altar, and the neighborly peace that we all share at the coffee and donuts hour after Mass is over.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

During the sign of peace, I force myself to beam a smile even when my fellow catholics give me a limp handshake and no smile. It’s like this every week with different people.

Why are they so unfriendly?

I went to an anglican church and I get smiles from the canons and people seem nice and warm?

My personal theory is that the catholic church emphasizes penitence above love whilst the anglicans emphasize love above penitence. Different emphasis leads to different christian character profiles.

I don’t want to be anglican, because I’m doctrinally catholic. I think moral duty is important.

ps/ I think like some others that the sign of peace should be placed elsewhere in the order of Mass, I do find it hard to concentrate on the Lamb of God after the sign of Peace.

I think people misunderstand that moment of the mass. It is an extending of the peace of Christ. It is not meant to be a fellowship time. It is to be a brief moment of extending Christ’s peace to those nearest you in the pews. There is nothing to be taken personally just because someone gives you a wimpy handshake or doesn’t smile much. They could just be wanting to keep the reverence of what is happening there. People get too excited sometimes during the sign of peace and have to shake everyone’s hand around them and then we lose all sense of what is the true focus of what is happening at the moment: the presence of Christ. It is a solemn moment.

Don’t take personally peoples faces, or wimpy handshakes. It is mass and should be kept as a solemn, reverent time.

As an ex-protestant I have noticed that in protestant churches handshake time is a time of talking, smiling, getting to know the person next to you, repeating cute phrases but at a Catholic mass we at that moment are experiencing the presence of Christ and that is where our focus is or should be.

You could try smiling and talking to people after mass is over and people are walking out. That would be a better indication of what the people are like there and I bet they would be very friendly.

 

[maryj]

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-2.cfm

The Rite of peace, which follows the Lords prayer, and proceeds the fraction of the bread is to be done in a somber manner, and only to those who are closest. #82 for those of you who care to know what the Roman Missal instructs.

 

[revert_jen]

non-essential, what give you the ability to state what is essential in Mass or not?

Well, I don’t know about the poster to whom you were responding, but it’s the Missale Romanum that says it isn’t essential.

The Rite of peace is essential (that is, required). The Sign of peace is a non-essential (that is, optional) part of that rite.
The Roman Missal:

1. The priest, turned towards the people, extending and then joining his hands, adds:
   The peace of the lord be with you always.

The people reply:
And with your spirit.

1. Then, if appropriate, the Deacon, or the priest, adds:
   Let us offer each other the sign of peace.

And all offer one another a sign, in keeping with local customs, that expresses peace, communion, and charity. The priest gives the sign of peace to a Deacon or minister.

Emphasis mine.

The priest or bishop celebrant gets to decide whether it is appropriate, just like he gets to decide things like whether to incense the altar at the beginning of Mass, to incense the offerings, to have post-Communion silence or a hymn etc. The wording (“if appropriate”) is exactly the same.

–Jen

 

[Armor_of_Light]

injecting EF Mass stuff in a thread that is obviously about NO Mass and the kiss of peace.
It comes across as superiority. That may be your Mass of preference and attendance but majority of Catholics attend NO Masses.

Sometimes an injection is necessary to fight infection.

 

[123Strontium]

Listen to what you are saying. Is everyone in mass suffering despair and depression or have a mental illness? Are they coming to mass every week miserable? If that was the case than who would want to go to mass with a congregation full of people feeling sorry for them self? Im not telling the hurt people to stay home, i don’t know why you think that. I lost close people in my life, very close, but i don’t take that into the celebration of mass, i know what my miseries are and i keep that with God, i don’t spread it to everyone else around me, God heals me. And if anyone else is suffering from these ailments you speak of than let God help them and they should let God help them. The Church is one of the only good places left on earth and people usually go for an hour a week. We are celebrating a mass, if everyone is miserable than there is no celebration.

Its possible for people who suffer to show happiness, you know why? Because its about appreciating your life, no matter what pain you suffer, if you suffer for God’s sake than there is happiness because this life is so short and eternal life is forever. Sounds like more people need to appreciate their life more because there is always someone who has it worse than you.

Very well put.

 

[YoungTradCath]

When I am attending Mass, I am not in a mood of socializing. Unfortunately, in many places, the form of the sign of peace–handshaking–is more akin to social hour or board meeting or casual street acquaintance than anything else. So I, like most people, don’t beam a giant smile across to the next person. In my experience, we are mostly rather demure and solemn about it, which is fine with me. It is so oppressive and stifling when one is expected to have a certain happy, radiantly joyous feeling when doing the sign of peace. I just do it for the value of it, and get on with the Mass.

 

[123Strontium]

I tend to think that the issue has nothing to do with theology and is simply a case of some people are not comfortable around people they don’t know. They don’t want to be touched or spoken to because they feel awkward and shy. Other people are trying to concentrate on the Mass and maybe can’t muster up a pom-pom girl disposition that is unnatural to them. If a person is emotionally shattered because someone else doesn’t want to hug them, I think they need to examine their own insecurity and not try and pin meanness on other people.

Mustering up a pom pom girl disposition would be a bit much if that isn’t one’s natural disposition but everybody has warmth surely, I’ve had looks of contempt which I find really confusing since we are followers of Christ and Christ is about Love, and emulating Christ. When I regard ‘some’ Catholics, I do not recognize Christ in their behaviour. You might say How would I know? Well, Christ’s character displayed outward signs of Love and Goodness, it wasn’t all internalized.

Matthew 5:48
“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Love is one of the main commandments in the NT.

Matthew 22:26
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’** 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”**

 

[IesumPerMariam]

Mustering up a pom pom girl disposition would be a bit much if that isn’t one’s natural disposition but everybody has warmth surely, I’ve had looks of contempt which I find really confusing since we are followers of Christ and Christ is about Love, and emulating Christ. When I regard ‘some’ Catholics, I do not recognize Christ in their behaviour. You might say How would I know? Well, Christ’s character displayed outward signs of Love and Goodness, it wasn’t all internalized.

Matthew 5:48
“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Love is one of the main commandments in the NT.

Matthew 22:26
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’** 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”**

Yes, and that’s why friendliness and openness are important for Catholics outside of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. During Mass our focus should be on our relationship with Christ Himself, Whom we are about to receive, and Who alone is the source of peace.

 

[robwar]

Sometimes an injection is necessary to fight infection.

what infection?

 

[robwar]

Mustering up a pom pom girl disposition would be a bit much if that isn’t one’s natural disposition but everybody has warmth surely, I’ve had looks of contempt which I find really confusing since we are followers of Christ and Christ is about Love, and emulating Christ. When I regard ‘some’ Catholics, I do not recognize Christ in their behaviour. You might say How would I know? Well, Christ’s character displayed outward signs of Love and Goodness, it wasn’t all internalized.

Matthew 5:48
“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Love is one of the main commandments in the NT.

Matthew 22:26
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’** 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”**

exactly and agree 100% thank-you

 

[duneman]

During the sign of peace, I force myself to beam a smile even when my fellow catholics give me a limp handshake and no smile. It’s like this every week with different people.

Why are they so unfriendly?

I went to an anglican church and I get smiles from the canons and people seem nice and warm?

My personal theory is that the catholic church emphasizes penitence above love whilst the anglicans emphasize love above penitence. Different emphasis leads to different christian character profiles.

I don’t want to be anglican, because I’m doctrinally catholic. I think moral duty is important.

ps/ I think like some others that the sign of peace should be placed elsewhere in the order of Mass, I do find it hard to concentrate on the Lamb of God after the sign of Peace.

afraid of getting the flu

 

[Esrb99]

what infection?

The infection of an improper sign of peace. As quoted above:

ttp://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wors…-chapter-2.cfm

The Rite of peace, which follows the Lords prayer, and proceeds the fraction of the bread is to be done in a somber manner, and only to those who are closest. #82

Last time I checked, people still walk up and down the pews to greet people during the fraction and lamb of God. Not exactly what the Pax is supposed to be. THAT is the infection.

 

[robwar]

Yes, and that’s why friendliness and openness are important for Catholics outside of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. During Mass our focus should be on our relationship with Christ Himself, Whom we are about to receive, and Who alone is the source of peace.

there is a false piety in this. A simple smile to others around them at the sign of peace instead of standing there with a poker face in the name of reverence doesn’t take away from any spirit of piety or reverence at all towards the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass at all. Acknowledging those around whether it be with a smile and a nod or even a handshake or quick hug and kiss doesn’t take away from the meaning and seriousness of the Mass.

 

[IesumPerMariam]

there is a false piety in this. A simple smile to others around them at the sign of peace instead of standing there with a poker face in the name of reverence doesn’t take away from any spirit of piety or reverence at all towards the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass at all. Acknowledging those around whether it be with a smile and a nod or even a handshake or quick hug and kiss doesn’t take away from the meaning and seriousness of the Mass.

Or, perhaps there’s an historical understanding of the Kiss of Peace in this.

Thank you for charitably assuming the better option!

And I don’t “stand there with a poker face in the name of reverence.” But thanks for charitably making another false assumption!

 

[robwar]

The infection of an improper sign of peace. As quoted above:

ttp://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wors…-chapter-2.cfm

The Rite of peace, which follows the Lords prayer, and proceeds the fraction of the bread is to be done **in a somber manner, and only **to those who are closest. #82

Last time I checked, people still walk up and down the pews to greet people during the fraction and lamb of God. Not exactly what the Pax is supposed to be. THAT is the infection.

so what do you propose to do about it? I have been to a ton of Masses since becoming Catholic since 1987 and it is so rare that I see people wandering around to socialize during the kiss of peace. What this thread started out as someone who would like to be Catholic but is put off by the coldness and unfriendliness they have encountered during the kiss of peace at Mass. It wasn’t about complaining about socializing in Mass but about lack of just simple human warm and friendliness during Mass.

 

[Slaney]

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-2.cfm

The Rite of peace, which follows the Lords prayer, and proceeds the fraction of the bread is to be done in a somber manner, and only to those who are closest. #82 for those of you who care to know what the Roman Missal instructs.

Exactly, & that doesn’t happen sometimes, with people leaving the pews to wish everybody and their granny peace. :grouphug: