Dutch diocese to close over 75% of parishes [CWN]

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In the next three years, the number of parishes in the Dutch diocese of Groningen-Leeuwarden will be reduced from 80 to 19, according to L’Osservatore Romano. Bishop Gerard de Korte, …

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The De-Christianized Europe
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In many of the European countries however, the shrinking attendance and affiliation has forced churches to close down, or be sold to the ever growing Muslim communities in Europe. It also reflects the decline of the Christian faith in Europe – both Catholic and Protestant. This phenomenon bodes ill for Europe, whose Christian faith sustained and enriched it for centuries. Christianity today, more than ever before, can be a unifying factor in a continent that has lost faith in the future. This loss of faith is manifested in the decline of fertility rates, marriages, and children. Conversely, the influx of millions of young Muslims with high fertility rates has transformed the educational system in Europe, where in some grammar and high-schools, Muslim children (mostly of North African parentage) count for over 50% of the pupils. It has also impacted on the culture and politics of Europe.
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Sometimes quoted I believe and it is alright to do so is Father Z’s blog. It seems an article recently appeared on the woes going on in Belgium which seems to be a bit like the Netherlands. At least, the Flemish part. A rather pessimistic outlook.
 
You know, in kind of a weird way, Western Europe is going the road of Eastern Europe as it was under communism. More emphasis on a state culture as the unifying foundation - rejection of Christianity. (Western secularism / capitalism / socialism of course.) The Muslims are holding out quite successfully. I don’t know if it has just been because I am a devout Catholic now or not, but it seems like the decadence is really blooming - last 10 or 15 years or so. Maybe I just didn’t see it before so much - I mean the death of Christianity. I took the cathedrals over there seemingly everywhere for granted. As an American, you notice the Church bells; we don’t have those here (at least I don’t). Just loved hearing them, London, Italy, France.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
You know, in kind of a weird way, Western Europe is going the road of Eastern Europe as it was under communism. More emphasis on a state culture as the unifying foundation - rejection of Christianity. (Western secularism / capitalism / socialism of course.) The Muslims are holding out quite successfully. I don’t know if it has just been because I am a devout Catholic now or not, but it seems like the decadence is really blooming - last 10 or 15 years or so. Maybe I just didn’t see it before so much - I mean the death of Christianity. I took the cathedrals over there seemingly everywhere for granted. As an American, you notice the Church bells; we don’t have those here (at least I don’t). Just loved hearing them, London, Italy, France.
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I have to agree with you. I live within a half-mile of a mosque and have Muslims as neighbors. Excuse me for saying this but I believe we Catholics are a bunch of wimps compared to them. We eliminated our fasts, we turned our worship into vernacular (among other things), we forget to do good works, we don’t have time to read our own Bibles, etc, etc. I mean during our recent snowstorm, these guys and their kids got up and shoveled or plowed the neighborhood sidewalks and driveways. I begged the one guy to take cash for his work and he refused. Maybe he favors me since I helped him with finding his family’s cat and all but I do hope the Pope continues his dialogues with the Muslims. Yes, there is the promise that Christ’s Church will always live but it’s not fun watching churches, which had been built with the money and efforts of so many faithful, close their doors for the last time.
 
ProVobis said:
I have to agree with you. I live within a half-mile of a mosque and have Muslims as neighbors. Excuse me for saying this but I believe we Catholics are a bunch of wimps compared to them. We eliminated our fasts, we turned our worship into vernacular (among other things), we forget to do good works, we don’t have time to read our own Bibles, etc, etc. I mean during our recent snowstorm, these guys and their kids got up and shoveled or plowed the neighborhood sidewalks and driveways. I begged the one guy to take cash for his work and he refused. Maybe he favors me since I helped him with finding his family’s cat and all but I do hope the Pope continues his dialogues with the Muslims. Yes, there is the promise that Christ’s Church will always live but it’s not fun watching churches, which had been built with the money and efforts of so many faithful, close their doors for the last time.
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Well, maybe that is the light at the end of tunnel, huh? If they can do it, we can. Maybe there will be a “Christian spring” some decade or century soon. 😉 I think world history would even confirm the likelihood of that. Religions come and go. (I believe in the truth of Christianity just to confirm)

I do think this loss of religion in the West is symptomatic of a much wider malaise. Don’t be surprised if the West, i.e., US, Western Europe, etc. start to lose their “1st world” shine a little bit. Adversaries will have more courage going up against us; there will be more infighting and division amongst us. We will lack the moral will and even the financial/economic capacity to defend ourselves and maintain our cultures at their current level of influence in the world.

But, again, we’ll climb back I think in time, renewed, quite likely many of us devout Christians. Something about faith makes a culture more coherent and stronger - healthier. It’s our only hope. 😉
 
Path_Finder said:
Sometimes quoted I believe and it is alright to do so is Father Z’s blog. It seems an article recently appeared on the woes going on in Belgium which seems to be a bit like the Netherlands. At least, the Flemish part. A rather pessimistic outlook.
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Islam is waiting in the wings…
 
I’m not surprised, Holland is the most liberal country on Earth. Why would they care about going to a church that they don’t agree with or really believe in? They have been this way so long that when JP2 visited them, to hear someone with actual catholic beliefs inspired an anti catholic movement in that country to reform the church and that was back in the 80s let alone now. Today they don’t even let Popes visit there because no one in Holland cares about religion.
 
ProVobis said:
I have to agree with you. I live within a half-mile of a mosque and have Muslims as neighbors. Excuse me for saying this but I believe we Catholics are a bunch of wimps compared to them. We eliminated our fasts, we turned our worship into vernacular (among other things), we forget to do good works, we don’t have time to read our own Bibles, etc, etc. I mean during our recent snowstorm, these guys and their kids got up and shoveled or plowed the neighborhood sidewalks and driveways. I begged the one guy to take cash for his work and he refused. Maybe he favors me since I helped him with finding his family’s cat and all but I do hope the Pope continues his dialogues with the Muslims. Yes, there is the promise that Christ’s Church will always live but it’s not fun watching churches, which had been built with the money and efforts of so many faithful, close their doors for the last time.
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Dutch leadership was notorious after Vatican II. As radical as Islam is, they believe in SOMETHING. When you hear your leaders acting mealy-mouthed and limp-wristed except when they are openly attacking their own faith, it doesn’t give the faithful much to latch on to.

Regarding Islam, it’s a false religion, but I believe following Islam like some of the Immigrants to the US gives one a better chance of entering the Kingdom of Heaven than a lukewarm Catholic. At least they are Hot or Cold.

If Christianity is seen as the religion of cowards, we have only ourselves to blame. Maybe for the Dutch, the remnants of Catholics who still take their faith seriously can start to grow it again now that the secular weeds have been removed. Or maybe they’ll end up like the Church of England.
 
SWolf said:
Dutch leadership was notorious after Vatican II. As radical as Islam is, they believe in SOMETHING. When you hear your leaders acting mealy-mouthed and limp-wristed except when they are openly attacking their own faith, it doesn’t give the faithful much to latch on to.

Regarding Islam, it’s a false religion, but I believe following Islam like some of the Immigrants to the US gives one a better chance of entering the Kingdom of Heaven than a lukewarm Catholic. At least they are Hot or Cold.

If Christianity is seen as the religion of cowards, we have only ourselves to blame. Maybe for the Dutch, the remnants of Catholics who still take their faith seriously can start to grow it again now that the secular weeds have been removed. Or maybe they’ll end up like the Church of England.
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Christians are cowards?

Try telling that to Christians in China or Saudi Arabia, who still congregate and hold the mass in spite of the fact that they could lose their lives. Try telling that to Christian aid workers in Africa and Asia, especially the war torn parts.
 
Sarcelle said:
Christians are cowards?

Try telling that to Christians in China or Saudi Arabia, who still congregate and hold the mass in spite of the fact that they could lose their lives. Try telling that to Christian aid workers in Africa and Asia, especially the war torn parts.
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It was directed at Christians in the United States and other Western Countries.
 
That is only because a good percentage of Catholic in the West aren’t really observant and a great many more only go to Mass on Christmas and Easter, but even many that attend on Sunday’s only go for the socialization.

But we have many good Catholic’s as well.
 
You half emptiers are spreading pessimistic views need to stop.

Go out and do something.

Volunteer at your parish, shelter, or whatever.

The work of the lord is up to us regardless of who believes.

I will sing his praises even if I am the only one listening.
 
boar2roar said:
I’m not surprised, Holland is the most liberal country on Earth. Why would they care about going to a church that they don’t agree with or really believe in? They have been this way so long that when JP2 visited them, to hear someone with actual catholic beliefs inspired an anti catholic movement in that country to reform the church and that was back in the 80s let alone now. Today they don’t even let Popes visit there because no one in Holland cares about religion.
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It would appear that the decline of Catholicism in Europe is coupled to the rise in anti-Semitism.
 
Cmc1972 said:
Oh and there are about 50 parishes in San diego alone.
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They’re merging or closing in cities like New York, Chicago, Detroit, etc. Africa and Asia is where you see real growth in Catholicism.
 
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