DVD: The Secret

[Morning_Star15]

RSV-CE; NAB; ESV; NASB; KJV; NKJV
“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

ASV
Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Douay-Rheims (I really like this one because it says to do “penance”)
“Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

NIV
“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”

NLT
“Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near."

NIRV
“Turn away from your sins!” he said. “The kingdom of heaven is near.”

HCSB
“Repent, because the kingdom of heaven has come near!”

CEV
“Turn back to God! The kingdom of heaven will soon be here.”

YLT :ehh: huh?
Reform ye, for come nigh hath the reign of the heavens.

Darby
Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn nigh.

I have no idea where this guy got his bible. :ehh: But I don’t see “heaven is within” anywhere in any of those versions. He made us his own verse to suite his analogy. And we all know what God says about people who make up their own verses and translations.

That’s because you’re looking at the wrong verse. The verse he was referring to was Luke 17:20-21, where Jesus says, in the RSV translation: “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, “Lo, here it is!” or “There!” for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

It gets a bit tricky with translations of this passage, because the original Greek word used for “in the midst of” or “among” cand also mean “within”. This is why you’ll see some translations opt for “within”, or to be safe, they’ll include both , such as the NIV: “…nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’** because the kingdom of God is within Or among] you.**”.

 

[Bennie_P]

That’s because you’re looking at the wrong verse. The verse he was referring to was Luke 17:20-21, where Jesus says, in the RSV translation: “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, “Lo, here it is!” or “There!” for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

It gets a bit tricky with translations of this passage, because the original Greek word used for “in the midst of” or “among” cand also mean “within”. This is why you’ll see some translations opt for “within”, or to be safe, they’ll include both , such as the NIV: “…nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’** because the kingdom of God is within Or among] you.**”.

Luke17:21

(ASV) neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

(CEV) There is no use saying, ‘Look! Here it is’ or ‘Look! There it is.’ God’s kingdom is here with you."

(DRB) Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

(ESV) nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

(GNB) No one will say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’; because the Kingdom of God is within you."

(GW) They can’t say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ You see, the kingdom of God is within you."

(HCSB) no one will say, ‘Look here!’ or ‘There!’ For you see, the kingdom of God is among you."

(ISV) People won’t say, ‘Look! Here it is!’ or “There it is!’ For the kingdom of God is among you.”

(KJV) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

(LITV) nor will they say, Lo, here! Or, Lo, there! For behold the kingdom of God is in your midst.

(MKJV) Nor shall they say, Lo here! or, behold, there! For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

(MSG) Nor when someone says, ‘Look here!’ or, ‘There it is!’ And why? Because God’s kingdom is already among you."

(RV) neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

(Vulgate) neque dicent ecce hic aut ecce illic ecce enim regnum Dei intra vos est
ἐντός
entos, en-tos’ inside (adverb or noun): - within? Strongs
Then from Robertson’s Word Pictures;
"Luke 17:21 -
*Within you (entos humōn). This is the obvious, and, as I think, the necessary meaning of entos. The examples cited of the use of entos in Xenophon and Plato where entos means “among” do not bear that out when investigated. Field (Ot. Norv.) “contends that there is no clear instance of entos in the sense of among” (Bruce), and rightly so. What Jesus says to the Pharisees is that they, **as others, are to look for the kingdom of God within themselves, not in outward displays *and supernatural manifestations. It is not a localized display “Here” or “There.” It is in this sense that in Luke 11:20 Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God as “come upon you” (ephthasen eph’ humās), speaking to Pharisees. The only other instance of entos in the N.T. (Matt 23:26) necessarily means “within” (“the inside of the cup”). There is, beside, the use of entos meaning “within” in the Oxyrhynchus Papyrus saying of Jesus of the Third Century (Deissmann, Light from the Ancient East, p. 426) which is interesting: “The kingdom of heaven is within you” (entos humōn as here in Luke 17:21)."

I attained all this information from my e-sword software (which is free) and it took only a couple three minutes. Of course it is still up to personel interpretation(thank God I don’t have to depend on myself being Catholic), what I highligted is what **I **think is the key to the wording of within in the verse and it doesn’t fly the way Oprah’s practices her theology/spiritualty.

This from a web site catholicapologetics.org.
Lk 17: 20-21
*Asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he said in reply, “The coming of the kingdom of God cannot be observed, and no one will announce, ‘Look, here it is,’ or, ‘There it is.’ For behold, the kingdom of God is among you intra vos est; is within you].” *catholicapologetics.org/ap021000.htm

 

[Shoshana]

Now I found out that my baby brother has bought a $400,000.00 house based on the principles of the dvd ‘The Secret’…:crying:

 

[SeekerJen]

Ah, another version of “name it and claim it”. This one should go over well with the general population as long as preachers don’t shout out bible verses along with it.

So “Abraham” is some channeled spirit? The article I attempted to read last week makes more sense now. It kept referring to “Abraham” and for the life of me I could not figure it out. The journalist kept referring to him as if he was real. Good grief.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

I’ve been following this thread, and there have been lots of good reasons for Catholics not to buy into this so-called “Secret”, but I’m interested to know what arguments could be used with people who are either not Catholic, or Catholic in name only? I may soon be in a situation where I will want to steer such a group away from this book/DVD.

 

[fnz2thrght]

I guess if you’re trying to steer non-catholics away you could just point out how it’s nothing more than repeat of old material - people 'selling" the power of positive thinking have been around since the beginning of time - more recently - norman vincent peale, Est, Tony Robbins etc etc etc.

I think if they’re not going to be swayed by the Anti-Christian feeling of this, maybe you can sway them based on their own common sense.

Remember, there’s a sucker born every minute…point out that they certainly are too intelligent to believe this stuff.

 

[MarkPerz]

For consideration:

Genesis chapter 3:

1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree of the garden’?”2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “*You will not die. *5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate.

Just my two cents.

 

[BOBKAT]

I have an idea how about we get together and write a book proclaiming “It Really Isn’t A Secret, Jesus Came For All” He is the way the truth and the light!!! I really don’t get it why people think to look everywhere but where He is and it is no secret…

Thanks and God Bless
Kathleen

 

[Defensor_Fidei]

Just a couple of observations on the Secret.

1. Unless your formation is very strong, don’t watch it. What I mean by this is that, first the movie has to have a generic approach to spirituality and God in order to appeal to the widest audience or in other words sell more DVDs (capitalism). Making money is a natural incentive for business people (the producers of the program).
2. When people like this to talk to me about sprituality and God on such a watered down 1st grade level, I just understand that their development is immature and that there could be a possibility that I could further evangelize any of these people.
3. The ideas in the secret are as old as time. I am self employed and I have known and seen very successful people employ these systems in business my entire adult life. When I saw the program last fall, I did not see or hear anything I did not already know about how successful people run their day.
4. Positive thinking is only a start and only works for so long. If you want to strip away all the fluff of the secret and understand what is really being talked about…this is all about goal setting. If you talk to anyone who is sucessful, you will see that they have very definate goals and very definate ways on how they make those goals come about.
5. The quantum science is tricky stuff…again the level of your formation will have a large impact on where you see this DVD is taking people. In order to disect out the good material realted to goal setting, your formation will need to be strong not to get caught up in the “Rodney King theology” that eminates from the program.

Proverbs 23:7

Galatians 6:7

Mark 12:31

If you want to learn better ways of setting goals and making them happen, there are books and other material you can study if the quantum science stuff is seductive.

 

[thecoach]

Except it’s philosophically illiterate, sophomoric materialism, fit only for has-been stage magicians and bad popular science writers. It is not “a more abstract scientific explanation”, it’s bad philosophy masquerading as science.

All things did not come from energy, because energy is material–fundamentally, energy is matter (Einstein, anyone?). Nothing nonphysical–angels, human souls, the mind–came from energy. Unless you decide, contrary to three hundred years of science, to assume energy isn’t physical, in which case physicists wouldn’t study it, would they?

The whole premise is ridiculous.

Thats what they first said about Quantum Physics…there is more in heaven and earth dear Horatio…

 

[thecoach]

Isn’t it interesting how God allows these “counter irritants” to tells us where the boundaries are?

“The Secret” is sorcery, pure and simple, as it purports to allow YOU to manipulate God’s universe.

As is Kabbalah,… and most (if not all) so-called “self-help” nonsense.

What do we say to SORCERY…!!?

NO, thank you…!

The Secret is not sorcery, after all, are we not created in God’s image, and did not Jesus say His followers would do the same works as He, and greater. Stop being afraid. Also, your “knowledge” of Kabbalah is WAY off. At least not the authentic stuff.

 

[Shoshana]

The Secret is not sorcery,

I would have to disagree with you…it may not be sorcery per se but it is New Age…part of a wide-range occultic pseudo-spirituality.

after all, are we not created in God’s image, and did not Jesus

You are right. And that is exactly the point…new agers make gods/goddesses of themselves.

say His followers would do the same works as He, and greater.

You are confusing Jesus’ statement with demonic activity. Although the devil himself can imitate, and does, many of Jesus’ miracles or apparitions…

Stop being afraid.

You took the words right out of Jesus’ and of our late John Paul 2’s mouths. It is true, we only need to go to Him for all of our needs.

Also, your “knowledge” of Kabbalah is WAY off. At least not the authentic stuff.
You are right here aso. Today’s Kabbalah is mixed up with esoteric overtones that is not of God. But we digress…

 

[thecoach]

You make erroneous leaps. I dont find it New Age as such…its more of a repackage of acceptable ideas. In actuality is states what Jesus stated, Ask. Now true, I agree with you that it does not leave room as such for God’s will, but Catholics DO need to learn to have more faith in asking, Jesus addressed this more than once. God will always anseer, though sometimes the answer may be no, and the Secret makes no allowance for this. Also, I would agree that if one’s faith is not strong, The Secret can lead to a materialism shrouded as a spirituality. However, all that being said, I believe the we can aspects of creation as God designed, always rememebring to being in touch with His will. To me, there is no dichotomy here.

You completely either misunderstand or dont understand the full meaning and beauty of the idea from Scripture I quoted you. I for one am NOT a new ager, and so I DO NOT use the idea of being created in HIs imageto make myself a god. IN a sense, you challenge what both the OT and Jesus said, be careful when doing that.

My reference again to Jesus about doing HIs works you again corrupt out of a fear based misinterpretation. If Jesus promised such things( as He does again at the end of Mark), why do you pass it off as demonic? The Church teaches NOTHING like this. You confuse true faith with fear. IN your view, then the miracles of Peter, Paul, and all subsequent saints is all demonic. Try to stop and think and realize what you are saying.

ANd yes, I agree that what is "pop-Kabbalah"is not the true stuff. But again, if you didnt use such blanket generalizations when condemning things…

 

[Shoshana]

You make erroneous leaps. I dont find it New Age as such…its more of a repackage of acceptable ideas. In actuality is states what Jesus stated,

This is why it is so dangerous…it parrots so much of what Jesus says…that is exactly what occult means…covert…that is why people get caught up with so much nonsense! The devil himself knows Scripture much more than Chrsitians! Here is a link you can read if you wish:
newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter95.htm

Ask. Now true, I agree with you that it does not leave room as such for God’s will, but Catholics DO need to learn to have more faith in asking,

True, we all need to grown in faith. But there are even Christinas (catholics in this case) put more faith in this than what the Bible says. Because The Secret titillates one’s senses…it is a snare…

Jesus addressed this more than once. God will always anseer, though sometimes the answer may be no, and the Secret makes no allowance for this. Also, I would agree that if one’s faith is not strong, The Secret can lead to a materialism shrouded as a spirituality. However, all that being said, I believe the we can aspects of creation as God designed, always rememebring to being in touch with His will. To me, there is no dichotomy here.

Most people who get caught up in this web, slowly walk away from the Faith. The results are much more evident in The Secret than in fervent prayer waiting for God for an answer. You shoudl read Moira Noonan’s story…

You completely either misunderstand or dont understand the full meaning and beauty of the idea from Scripture I quoted you. I for one am NOT a new ager, and so I DO NOT use the idea of being created in HIs imageto make myself a god. IN a sense, you challenge what both the OT and Jesus said, be careful when doing that.

Trust me I am very careful…in the Eastern faith, there is a wonderful saying…God became man so we can become divine. Beautiful isn’t it?..it is New Age that distorts this image, not I.

My reference again to Jesus about doing HIs works you again corrupt out of a fear based misinterpretation.

Who is afraid?
If Jesus promised such things( as He does again at the end of Mark), why do you pass it off as demonic?

Yes, Jesus promises us many things…and I bank my whole faith on it…only because I thirst for Who He is. But New Age grabs this and distorts it again, perverts it and spits it out. It is demonic. New Age is a devil who passes for an angel of light…and again, the devil can quote the bible better than your or I could do. He is one smart puppy!
The Church teaches NOTHING like this. You confuse true faith with fear. IN your view, then the miracles of Peter, Paul, and all subsequent saints is all demonic. Try to stop and think and realize what you are saying.

Woudl you stop putting words in my mouth! Peter, Paul and Mary all put their faith in God…not on some schmuck idea floating around from paganistic pseudo-spirituality. I know exactly what i amy saying…but not too sure if you are aware of what you are saying…

ANd yes, I agree that what is "pop-Kabbalah"is not the true stuff. But again, if you didnt use such blanket generalizations when condemning things…

This is New Age and I will always condemn it…sorry to disappoint you. But I will have to answer to God and not ot you, my friend. Afraid/ Hardly! But I am afraid of people getting caught up in such blatant lies…and defending them no less…

 

[thecoach]

Shoshana:
NOt putting words in your mouth, your ideas are evident. Yours is a circular argument. If you dont want to read The Secret, then dont. I will not blanket generalize things as you do, then pass it off as the only true Catholic interpretation. Anything you dont seem to agree with or understand is a work of the Devil. Galileo was subject to such thinking. I assure you, I am caught on no web. I take St. Paul’s advice and test all things according to the Holy Spirit. I take what is useful and discard the rest. Perhaps I am not so bent out of shape because I saw the version without Hicks the channeler in it, which would have been a complete turn off. I have been recommended the Abraham-HIcks books many times, but refuse to read anything that has been “chanelled”.

After all, how would you classify psychology? Is that a work of the devil too?

Your basic assumption is that this is new age. I have already stated where it is just a repacking of older stuff( whichi you seem to ignore), much of which is Biblical.

I see you quoted from the Eastern CHurch, are you Eastern Orthodox? There is much beauty from that tradition.

This is quite a debate, but before it gets too heated, remember we are one in Christ and in His Church, so let us keep that love before us!

 

[Shoshana]

You may not get ensnared…but there are many who do! No, I have not read the book yet…but I will. There is a lot of deception in many of the books out there…this is what I am trying to warn the dangers of. Look, I have also been part of an exorcism team for five years…and with this experience, I know all too well the dangers…

 

[Shoshana]

And here is another link folks on the wonderful invention of the secret! catholic.org/views/views_news.php?id=23389&pid=3

 

[Shoshana]

I have an idea how about we get together and write a book proclaiming “It Really Isn’t A Secret, Jesus Came For All” He is the way the truth and the light!!! I really don’t get it why people think to look everywhere but where He is and it is no secret…

Thanks and God Bless
Kathleen

When the DaVinci Code came on the market, our pastor spoke a few times in his homilies about such garbage. He also said we had the CVode…Jesus Christ! But it does baffle my mind when I see people who won’t even read the bible or believe in jesus Christ, will believe anything that falls into their lap! I have family doing the same thing…:crying:

Anyhoo, here is another link for those who are interested about the wonderful secret! catholic.org/views/views_news.php?id=23389&pid=3

 

[aimee]

You may not get ensnared…but there are many who do! No, I have not read the book yet…but I will. There is a lot of deception in many of the books out there…this is what I am trying to warn the dangers of. Look, I have also been part of an exorcism team for five years…and with this experience, I know all too well the dangers…

I was thinking how do some become ensnared and others not…??

 

[Shoshana]

I was thinking how do some become ensnared and others not…??

Hi Aimee :bounce: ! That is a good question for sure. It depends on so many things…the person’s vulnerability, the person’s brokenness, the person’s gullibility. Most who do enter into any of the traps of New Age, I believe, do it for mostly ‘fun’…it something that titillates the senses. Being that enough people’s attention span may not be very long, well, the issue goes by the wayside. This also includes tarot card reading, channelling, etc, etc. I have a friend who swears by Reiki…and because of that she receives comfort and is without pain for a while. Her Reiki person does this over the phone even. A spirit is definitely involved in this case…and this is why it is so dangerous. it promises you health and no pain, and people fall for it because they are tired of meds, etc. They have prayed with no result…etc…etc…etc…

At both places that I work in, they have a psyuchic come in to read either leaves, or cards, or angels, etc. The one place has also a meditation booked for an hour to show you your goddess within. Well, do you know what happens in this place? And only when i am there for some reason…things fly off the wall, the shelf, etc. The boss is getting angry with me as she believes her ghost hates my ghost. The last incident was the most scary. A picture got thrown off the wall about four feet and totally smashed on the ground…I was only there a couple of secionds before. Otherwise if I would have stood there checking the room to see if everything was off, this picture would have hit my head! Ask me if I wasn’t a touch troubled! The picture was hung above a table with expensive items, and yet if must have flown to avoid it…the rope seemed to also have been cut…And all of this over this occult, this pseudo-spirituality that seems to permeate our world. New age is really only old stuff being rehashed…basically it is gnosticism. But there are aspects of it that is dasngerous…

Now, I think I have babbled enough again…sorry I digress… have a blessed evening!