Dying during an abortion

[daeve]

I don’t know, or better yet we don’t know the state of any body’s soul.

Of course abortion is evil. And the normal way of removing a mortal sin is confession. But we cannot know if the woman at the moment of death feels remorse.

St. Faustina says Jesus calls us all at the moment of death. I pray for this to be true.

That’s a wonderful thought, that Jesus calls us at the moment of death. I love that. Thank you.

 

[rwoehmke]

Yes, if it was a woman who simply wanted an abortion because she didn’t wanna deal with it, or viewed it would hinder her. Then she decides to have an abortion and dies during the procedure.

That information alone is still not sufficient enough to render any sort of judgement. There is no way to determine whether she knows that getting an abortion is a serious wrong or whether she is making a free decision. Like some of the other posts say we can only judge the external act and not the person.

 

[YADA]

That information alone is still not sufficient enough to render any sort of judgement. There is no way to determine whether she knows that getting an abortion is a serious wrong or whether she is making a free decision. Like some of the other posts say we can only judge the external act and not the person.

And that is why we can be thankful that we are not the judge of a person’s eternal fate! Only God can judge the person … Only God decides where we will spend eternity …

We can know that certain actions are sinful … but not the final state of any individual soul.

 

[mlchance]

Yes, if it was a woman who simply wanted an abortion because she didn’t wanna deal with it, or viewed it would hinder her. Then she decides to have an abortion and dies during the procedure.

Since she is dying in an act of mortal sin, and has no time to do penance or contrition, wouldn’t this be almost a sure way to hell?

So, IOW, you’ve set up a hypothetical situation in which you’ve set all the parameters as much as possible to yield only one possible answer. I’m not sure what the point of the exercise is.

Yes, anyone who dies with unforgiven mortal sin goes to Hell. But neither you nor I nor anyone else sitting around typing on the Internet is qualified to determine if another person’s sins are mortal or not.

So, if you’re concerned about women who’ve died during abortion, pray for the repose of their souls.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[wjp984]

This type of situation is one example where I think the strongest support for my belief in Purgatory comes from. I think God in his mercy might take the woman’s circumstances into consideration and if mercy is just, God might allow her to one day enter Heaven. I would assume there would be a very lengthy time in Purgatory, perhaps longer than many lifetimes and the woman would truly suffer for what she did. However, I certainly think it is still possible for God to show mercy and not send the woman to Hell.

 

[jmcrae]

This type of situation is one example where I think the strongest support for my belief in Purgatory comes from. I think God in his mercy might take the woman’s circumstances into consideration and if mercy is just, God might allow her to one day enter Heaven. I would assume there would be a very lengthy time in Purgatory, perhaps longer than many lifetimes and the woman would truly suffer for what she did. However, I certainly think it is still possible for God to show mercy and not send the woman to Hell.

The best thing for these women would be to convert during this lifetime, and to regret the abortion with tears and agony of heart.

Second best would be to go to Purgatory and explain to the child in person why he was not allowed to be born, and to experience for themselves the torment and terror that the child experienced during the abortion.

I do fear, though, that some people’s consciences are so dead that they would prefer to go to Hell rather than acknowledge the humanity of their own children.

 

[wjp984]

No one would rather go to Hell if they had even the slightest idea of what that means so I doubt that. I certainly don’t want to go to Hell and I don’t even want to try and imagine how terrible it must be.

 

[Cara_Serrano]

I agree with all the posts about some mitigating circumstances for the woman getting an abortion. What seems clearer to me is that, if the woman dies, the doctor is going to hell because 1) he just performed an abortion and 2) he’s a lousy doctor who just killed two patients! He ends up with more mortal sins than she does if the roof collapses during the operation and everybody dies.

 

[deb1]

So if a woman dies from an abortion, and she was pressured by her parents or BF to have one, would that reduce the culpability?

This happened to a family member that I know. She was 15 and pregnant by the older man whom her father allowed to live with their family. Her father, without any discussion, took his child to an abortionist. The daughter really didn’t have any choice as the decission was made for her without her consent. She is still alive, thankfully and regrets the loss of her first child.

 

[drafdog]

No.

Matthew

 

[daeve]

No.

Matthew

No what?

 

[Sir_Knight]

Purely anectdotal as I don’t have her website with me, but there was a girl who started a journal to heal from her abortion. She became pregnant right before her husband was sent to Iraq. While he was gone, her parents literally drugged her and forced her to an abortion clinic.

She wrote of waking up after the abortion not even knowing what was going on.

This is a case showing diminished culpability.

Diminished culpability? I would think that the way described, it would remove ALL culpability.

 

[Sir_Knight]

commiting sin just for the sake of God forgiving you in the future is one of the worst things someone can do and is a sign of reprobation.

What???

Not disagreeing with you – just don’t understand that comment. Why would somebody commit a sin merely for the sake of having it forgiven? What would be the motivating factor for doing that?

I guess that I missing something.

 

[mangy_dog]

If a woman dies during an abortion is that a 100% way to hell? because she is dying in an act of mortal sin…There are people who die in a state of mortal sin, and the church says that they are damned, but to actually die during an ACT of mortal sin, how much more worse is that? Would that be almost 100% sureity of hell? because the mortal sin is being commited right before death and there is no time in between for contrition or confession?

For reasons of “not knowing” the state of the woman’s soul and whether there are extenuating or diminishing factors as it pertains to “full knowledge” of the wrong being committed; grave matter and “consent of the will”…this would be a case best left to God. He alone knows the state of that soul at the time of death. All we can know is that abortion is a mortal sin, it was being committed at the time of the mother’s death and that chances are pretty good that there was no priest available at the time.

It’s a little bit like, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…it must be a duck.

So - our job is to pray for that soul, on the off chance that she may be in Purgatory. That’s our job.

The policeman denounces - the judge judges. We denounce the sin but God judges.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[PetersKeys]

What???

Not disagreeing with you – just don’t understand that comment. Why would somebody commit a sin merely for the sake of having it forgiven? What would be the motivating factor for doing that?

I guess that I missing something.

Thats not what I was saying…I was saying that a person could think he could sin as much as he wants and not worry about it because he knows he will be forgivin later. Using forgiveness as a future safety net.

 

[Sir_Knight]

That would be the sin of presumption – presuming on God’s mercy to forgive us and it is very common because whenever we struggle with committing a sin and decide on the sin, we commit that sin.

 

[Cara_Serrano]

That would be the sin of presumption – presuming on God’s mercy to forgive us and it is very common because whenever we struggle with committing a sin and decide on the sin, we commit that sin.

What you say is true, but if you think there is that much cool theological reasoning before an abortion, you don’t understand the irrational panic caused by an unexpected pregnancy.

 

[Sir_Knight]

you don’t understand the irrational panic caused by an unexpected pregnancy.

I guess not.

 

[Homebrew_roots]

There is no need to bring up these kind of hypothetical situations because we should never EVER try to judge another person’s life after death. We do not judge others. We do judge actions, hence the reason that we say that dying in a state of mortal sin will get you a one way ticket to hell, BUT we can only say that if we are not speaking about anyone in particular. Even had this story been true, no one would have known the full truth behind what was going on besides the woman involved and God. And this is why we do not judge.

Later.

-daniel

 

[hasikelee]

What you say is true, but if you think there is that much cool theological reasoning before an abortion, you don’t understand the irrational panic caused by an unexpected pregnancy.

Hmm, you know, your statement reminds me of a study I read about a long time ago. I wish I could find it again, as it was very interesting. Basically, the study found that in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy, due to hormonal changes, women were at a higher risk of depression and anxiety, including suicidal ideation and panic attacks.

Interestingly, 8 weeks is when the highest percentage of women abort their children.