Early church fathers believed in sola scriptura?

  • Thread starter Thread starter coleraine
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
No one’s interprets infallibly, Steve, anyone who proclaims to do so is, IMO, a fool.
I would agree that no one is infallible all the time. But wouldn’t you say that St. Paul was infallible when he wrote Romans?

In the same way, I don’t believe that St. Cyril of Alexandria was infallible all the time, but I do believe that the Council of Ephesus in 431 was infallible.
 
Again, I’m thinking more of the Marian doctrines which must be believed, or salvation forfeited, you know, a different Gospel.
BTW, sandusky, I don’t agree with your claim that Pope Pius IX thought that everyone who disagrees with the Immaculate Conception goes to hell. But if he did think that, then he was simply wrong.
 
40.png
steve975:
We absolutely agree that, short of inspiration from the Holy Spirit, no one interprets infallibly and those who think they do are fools. But then how do you know what the Bible means as you said? Why do you believe I (or the Church) have “misused or misapplied” certain verses when your interpretation is fallible and you could also have misused or misapplied?
Your Church has infallibly interpreted very few verses; as to why you misapply verses, it is my belief that it’s because you are required to understand Scripture in accordance with what is contained in the deposit of faith; therefore, your interpretation is not really your own, but that of your leadership.
40.png
steve975:
What good is it if the Holy Spirit’s protection only applies to the validity of Scripture itself when we can all have different and even contradicting interpretations of what that Scripture means? God protects these documents but not the means for us to fully comprehend the documents?
What’s your understanding of that? Why do we have such different interpretations and understandings, you and me? Which one of us has the true Holy Spirit, and which one doesn’t? :ehh:
 
40.png
Philthy:
What an incredible roller coaster ride!

Did the ECFs believe in SS? Well according to Sandusky, SS presumes a canon of Scripture.

How do they get to a canon of Scripture though? Nothing has been offered. In addition, it has been suggested that no canon was “presumed” until The Council of Trent. That would entirely eliminate the possibility of the ECFs operating under SS.
I’ve answered that for you, Phil. ISTM you should get off the roller coaster, sit down, and try paying attention to what’s been posted.
 
40.png
rmcbride77:
This is precisely where the premise of sola scriptura falls apart. I would bet that each of the over 33,000 Protestant branches and each of their member churches would each have their own “private interpretation”
C’mon, there’s at least 33,000 different interpretations of what the CC teaches within the CC. Read the forums.
40.png
rmcbride77:
heir own “private interpretation” (btw which Peter forbids as far as scripture goes, see 2 Peter 1:20)
That’s not what the passage says. That’s a very simple passage to understand as it is simply and plainly stated by the writer, and every Catholic gets it wrong. 🤷
40.png
rmcbride77:
You know each denomination and their member churches claims to be “inspired” by the Holy Spirit’s teaching. So which is one is correct??? is the Holy Spirit Schizophrenic??
You tell us.
 
I would agree that no one is infallible all the time. But wouldn’t you say that St. Paul was infallible when he wrote Romans?
The apostles and inspired writers are a different story.
Peter J:
In the same way, I don’t believe that St. Cyril of Alexandria was infallible all the time, but I do believe that the Council of Ephesus in 431 was infallible.
I understand.
 
Originally Posted by sandusky
Many, including me, would disagree with you on that. We would say that they were infallibly defined by Trent.
Originally Posted by cfrancis
That begs the question: when was the canon to which you subscribe infallibly defined?
Also, WRT to SS. When you declare “SS presumes a canon”, from what source does that statement come?
What is the source document/teacher for this definition of SS?
If that statement is a fundamental element of SS, it had to come from someone/some source.
Is it Apostolic in origin?
ECF?
Reformation?
Modern?
 
C’mon, there’s at least 33,000 different interpretations of what the CC teaches within the CC. Read the forums.
You mistakenly think the forums are the teachings of the church. They are not.
That’s not what the passage says. That’s a very simple passage to understand as it is simply and plainly stated by the writer, and every Catholic gets it wrong. 🤷
What authority do you have to say that?? We have the authority of the Church of Rome handed down from the Apostles. What authority do you have?

God Bless
 
C’mon, there’s at least 33,000 different interpretations of what the CC teaches within the CC. Read the forums.

That’s not what the passage says. That’s a very simple passage to understand as it is simply and plainly stated by the writer, and every Catholic gets it wrong. 🤷

You tell us.
and I am waiting to hear your response about what I said about Spurgeon’s statement. What answer do you have?
 
40.png
rmcbride77:
You mistakenly think the forums are the teachings of the church. They are not.
And you, my friend, are as mistaken as you think I am, if you think that the confusion of 33,000 different denominations reflect the teachings of Moses, the prophets and the apostles; they don’t.
40.png
rmcbride77:
What authority do you have to say that??
I have the authority of a God-given mind, and God-given reasoning abilities along with the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the ultimate authority of His word in writing.
rmcbride7:
We have the authority of the Church of Rome handed down from the Apostles.
That’s the claim.
40.png
rmcbride77:
and I am waiting to hear your response about what I said about Spurgeon’s statement. What answer do you have?
I responded: “you tell us.”

You brought it up. 🤷
 
I would agree that no one is infallible all the time. But wouldn’t you say that St. Paul was infallible when he wrote Romans?
In a way, yes. I have no intention of denying that the canon of Scripture is closed.

But with regard to infallibility, I don’t think the apostles and inspired writers were really that different from later Christians. In particular, none of them were infallible all the time.
 
And you, my friend, are as mistaken as you think I am, if you think that the confusion of 33,000 different denominations reflect the teachings of Moses, the prophets and the apostles; they don’t.
But that’s exactly what they do claim, Sandusky, each one claims to have the correct interpretation and all claim the Holy Spirit led them to their interpretation. They can’t all be right… that is confusion and God is not the author of confusion.
I have the authority of a God-given mind, and God-given reasoning abilities along with the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the ultimate authority of His word in writing.
each one of those differing denominations says exactly what you are saying, what makes your interpretation right when you differ on doctrines? Again, that is confusion…
That’s the claim…
That is the witness of History, Protestants ignorant by choice when it comes to history. You think that the Holy Spirit just took a 1500 year vacation until Luther and Calvin came along to “get it right” How absurd!
You brought it up. 🤷
No Sandusky, YOU brought it up, its YOUR signature quote… you are just another “lone ranger” out there much like I was once…
The Psalms talks about those that “do what is right in their own eyes.”… Again, 33,000 opinions can’t all be right…can’t you see that?? Is Schism right? Are Church splits right?

You have yet to give a cohesive answer to any of the challenges you have been given.
 
In a way, yes. I have no intention of denying that the canon of Scripture is closed.
Peter J:
But with regard to infallibility, I don’t think the apostles and inspired writers were really that different from later Christians. In particular, none of them were infallible all the time.
You don’t? But that would put the writings of those Christians that you really don’t think are that different from the prophets and apostles, on the same level as the writings of the prophets and apostles, that level being Scripture, which doesn’t line up with your first statement.
 
40.png
rmcbride77:
But that’s exactly what they do claim, Sandusky, each one claims to have the correct interpretation and all claim the Holy Spirit led them to their interpretation.
That includes you.
40.png
rmcbride77:
each one of those differing denominations says exactly what you are saying, what makes your interpretation right when you differ on doctrines?
What makes yours right?
40.png
rmcbride77:
That is the witness of History
That’s what it’s about for you—an historical pedigree.
40.png
rmcbride77:
Protestants ignorant by choice when it comes to history.
Some are.
40.png
rmcbride77:
You think that the Holy Spirit just took a 1500 year vacation until Luther and Calvin came along to “get it right” How absurd!
Your vacation statement is what’s absurd.
rmcbride7:
No Sandusky, YOU brought it up, its YOUR signature quote… you are just another “lone ranger” out there much like I was once…
I’m not at all like you. That I can correctly interpret 2 Pet 1:19-21, and you can’t, is but a small indication of that.
40.png
rmcbride77:
The Psalms talks about those that “do what is right in their own eyes.”… Again, 33,000 opinions can’t all be right…can’t you see that?? Is Schism right? Are Church splits right?
Was not your choice to become Catholic doing “what is right in your own eyes?” Or where you led by the HS. ISTM, that you were wrong once, why do think that you’re you not wrong now? History?
rmcbride7:
You have yet to give a cohesive answer to any of the challenges you have been given.
If you say so. :doh2:
 
No I don’t claim to have the right interpretation. The Roman Catholic Church does though and has had that right interpretation handed down through over 2000 years from the Apostles. I came in line with that interpretation. Your church is a schism of that church and has parted from the deposit of faith left us by the apostles as mine had. Come back home!!

Regarding history, you can’t just wave it off with a remark about pedigree. History is real, it happened. You might want to check it out.

I agree that the vacation statement is absurd. That is my whole point. You seem to like to avoid discussing issues by replying with one liners and smart remarks and I will bet you are going to answer with more one liners and smart remarks, thus proving that you have yet to give us a cohesive answer. What are you afraid of?

on I Peter 1:19-21… what authority do you have to say you are right and a church 2000 years old with the smartest scripture scholars to ever walk the planet are wrong?..

wake up, Lazarus…

peace out
 
Your Church has infallibly interpreted very few verses; as to why you misapply verses, it is my belief that it’s because you are required to understand Scripture in accordance with what is contained in the deposit of faith; therefore, your interpretation is not really your own, but that of your leadership.
I don’t believe those are even two of the verses the Church has infallibly interpreted. You said it yourself - the Church has infallibly interpreted very few verses. On the other hand, you have defined Scripture based on the prerequisite of SS. But just to get this straight, as long as an interpretation is my own, then it is not misused or misapplied (even though my interpretations are fallible). But once a leadership entity is involved, then it is misapplied?
What’s your understanding of that? Why do we have such different interpretations and understandings, you and me? Which one of us has the true Holy Spirit, and which one doesn’t? :ehh:
Hey, what’s your opinion on the best brand of cheese? :ehh:

I’m not sure which part of my post these above questions are in response to (or avoidance of). My understanding is that we have such different interpretations of Scripture because everyone of us, when not inspired by the Holy Spirit, is fallible and subject to our own biases and agendas. What is your understanding? How do you explain to every person who is not you that either your interpretations of Scripture are always more correct than anyone else, or that you can’t trust your own interpretations to be correct?

What good is it if the Holy Spirit’s protection only applies to the validity of Scripture itself when we can all have different and even contradicting interpretations of what that Scripture means? God protects these documents but not the means for us to fully comprehend the documents?

I must repeat again, seeing as you agree that we can’t count on ourselves to infallibly interpret Scripture, how do you claim to know what the Bible means as per your previous post?
 
Was not your choice to become Catholic doing “what is right in your own eyes?” Or where you led by the HS. ISTM, that you were wrong once, why do think that you’re you not wrong now? History?:
actually, I was born into a Baptist family, so I don’t think I was wrong once. I have always had a hunger to know God better than I did at any point in time, and I went from one denomination to another, learning more about Him and his people. I had no intention of becoming Catholic in the beginning but a series of books resulted in me reading Church history and the ECF in an Assembly of God bible college and then eventually reading the Catechism of the Catholic church along with the life of St Francis of Assisi I have to say that I was attracted to his spirituality. So, I don’t think its a matter of being right or wrong, I think it is a matter of growing in God, having a personal relationship with the Lord and doing whatever it takes to know Him better. I found the evidence for the claims of the RCC irrefutable and I came into line. I didn’t understand doctrines like purgatory or Mary at first but I decided to trust God and the Church that He built and I grew to realize that I had a lot of misconceptions about what Catholics believe. Now I feel that my relationship with Jesus is the same as I always had but more… its like I was in “Christianity Lite” in my former Protestant walk.
 
Regarding 2 Thes 2:15: Paul was preaching the tradition Jesus initiated. It was still oral at that time. That ‘tradition’ is what we now call Scripture, or the Bible. There is no separate tradition besides God’s written word.
 
I’ve answered that for you, Phil. ISTM you should get off the roller coaster, sit down, and try paying attention to what’s been posted.
I’ve just re-read the entire thread and found this answered nowhere. What post # is this answered in?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top