Early islamic historians, how important are they to muslims?

[MartinJordan]

That has absolutely nothing to do with my post Martin…

Amen

.

How do you Amen a negative.

Meanwhile:

You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life.** These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.**

He’s calling.

Happy Easter.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

How do you Amen a negative.

Meanwhile:

You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life.** These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.**

He’s calling. Happy Easter. MJ

Yes Martin - I note you left out the parts where the Father is Calling and Jesus did come in the “Fathers name”.

John 5:37"And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, 38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God"?

Happy Easter Martin to you as well.

Now way off topic so will leave it there and let it get back to topic. I will not reply to any more Off Topic - Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Yes Martin - I note you left out the parts where the Father is Calling and Jesus did come in the “Fathers name”.

John 5:37"And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, 38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God"?

Happy Easter Martin to you as well.

Now way off topic so will leave it there and let it get back to topic. I will not reply to any more Off Topic - Regards Tony

There is nothing left out. I even was having this conversation with you in the other thread and left out NOTHING. Yet you call me leaving out 37? Please don’t run away from this. And I will prove what you are doing is exactly that:

Originally Posted by TonyBS View Post

**Christ new the result His Love would Bring. Christ also knew that there would be another revelarion between His and the Promised Day of God that mankind would not accept fully. That is why we have a promise of a future that will no be like that.

As you have said in Isaiah, there will be a time where the Sword will be turned into the plowshare.

Welcome to this time

God bless and regards Tony**

And I (MartinJordan) said " Jesus did not say such things.

What he did say was for example:

31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[d]?

45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

It’s time to listen to Jesus. Easter people we are!

MJ"

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13785054&postcount=90

So how about it Tony?

MJ

 

[gmcbroom]

Tony,
The issue here isn’t just how how you interpret the Koran? It’s part of it as your faith revers the Koran it’s how important are the early Islamic historians to Muslims? As a Baha’i you have to read the Koran and Hadith in a certain way that will leave the door open for the revelation of the Bab, Muslims don’t. So how you read it isn’t necessarily how they read it. Then you add the views of which ever denomination they follow i.e. Sunni or Shia or some other sect and that colors how you see the Koran Hadith and your world view. Even though there are different views in Christianity we don’t have the same issue that Muslims and Baha’i have because the Koran isn’t our holy book.

 

[MartinJordan]

Tony,
The issue here isn’t just how how you interpret the Koran? It’s part of it as your faith revers the Koran it’s how important are the early Islamic historians to Muslims? As a Baha’i you have to read the Koran and Hadith in a certain way that will leave the door open for the revelation of the Bab, Muslims don’t. So how you read it isn’t necessarily how they read it. Then you add the views of which ever denomination they follow i.e. Sunni or Shia or some other sect and that colors how you see the Koran Hadith and your world view. Even though there are different views in Christianity we don’t have the same issue that Muslims and Baha’i have because the Koran isn’t our holy book.

Exactly. Pardon my intrusion gmcbroom.

Another Bahai poster said to me "Christians and Muslims have been at loggerheads over each others claims " (something to that effect) , but that’s not true. There is no reverence to the Koran so that claim has no bearing over Christianity’s claims. If any thing only Muslims may have issues as they are asked to refer to the Bible.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

Tony,
The issue here isn’t just how how you interpret the Koran? It’s part of it as your faith revers the Koran it’s how important are the early Islamic historians to Muslims? As a Baha’i you have to read the Koran and Hadith in a certain way that will leave the door open for the revelation of the Bab, Muslims don’t. So how you read it isn’t necessarily how they read it. Then you add the views of which ever denomination they follow i.e. Sunni or Shia or some other sect and that colors how you see the Koran Hadith and your world view. Even though there are different views in Christianity we don’t have the same issue that Muslims and Baha’i have because the Koran isn’t our holy book.

Dear gmcbroom - Thank you for your observations, I see it this way.

Please take the Time to study “Frame of Reference” - There are many references for this so I will give just one for thought changingminds.org/explanations/models/frame_of_reference.htm

The other is Inattention Blindness - nobaproject.com/modules/failures-of-awareness-the-case-of-inattentional-blindness Again many links and studies to pursue

Basically no one on this planet is wrong given the “Frame of Reference” they are in and what they see in life given that frame of reference.

This is science and it tells us how to look for God without even knowing they have given us the spiritual path to do so.

The Manifestations of God Come to Change both these things. They say close your eyes to the material world open them to the Spiritual Realm, they say Change your frame of reference and do not be blinded to the obvious by concentrating on one thing.

When I look at what Christs says I know he wants us to be Born Again, look for the Spirit of what He says and do not be blinded by inattention to all that is. I have not even got to Muhammad the Bab and Baha’u’llah, but they all say the same.

The key to all this is One God - This is the Frame of Reference Christs wants for us. That we are One, that there is One God and there is one Truth, this frame can not be reached by inattention blindness to all that is.

Now the Bible tells us to Test the Prophets and their Fruits. If we look with the Frame of Reference of the Oneness of God and His Message, does Muhammad Pass - YES as do the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

Is it easy to change our Frame of reference? They have found all great thinkers use much this same principal, they try to put themselves into the position or state of the thing they are trying to understand this way they alter their current frame of reference and try to eliminate any inattentional blindness.

So with this my Frame of Reference I will always try to tie the early Historians of the Muslim Revelation into the initial intent of the Words of Muhammad which is as I stated above “That we are One, that there is One God and there is one Truth”.

Regards Tony