Early islamic historians, how important are they to muslims?

[TonyBS]

What closed declaration ? Explain clearly.

MJ

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me”.

This passage can be used in this manner, if it is used to shut out the other Manifestations.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me”.

This passage can be used in this manner, if it is used to shut out the other Manifestations.

Regards Tony

There isn’t such a thing as all other manifestations. Ask a Muslim. Then try to convince them as per definition your Faith claims. See what happens.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

There isn’t such a thing as all other manifestations. Ask a Muslim. Then try to convince them as per definition your Faith claims. See what happens.

MJ

I do not have to convince any one Martin

I just share what I have found and may our hearts always be bound in the Love of God.

There are many Muslims embracing the Oneness of God and all the Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

I do not have to convince any one Martin

I just share what I have found and may our hearts always be bound in the Love of God.

There are many Muslims embracing the Oneness of God and all the Messengers.

Regards Tony

Many? Ok name one, then two and so forth. Remember it has to be many.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Many? Ok name one. We’ll start from there and then get to two and so forth. Remember it has to be many.

MJ

 

[Techno2000]

I do not have to convince any one Martin

I just share what I have found and may our hearts always be bound in the Love of God.

There are many Muslims embracing the Oneness of God and all the Messengers.

Regards Tony

Why would a Manifestation create a Religion, then only to have the members of that Religion , reject the Manifestation that started it

 

[GUNNER7070]

I do not have to convince any one Martin

I just share what I have found and may our hearts always be bound in the Love of God.

There are many Muslims embracing the Oneness of God and all the Messengers.

Regards Tony

Hello TonyBS.
I have got few questions I would like to ask you about if you do not mind.

1- What was the purpose of our creation?

2- Do you believe that there will be a last day on this earth?

3- What does the Oneness of God means to a Bahai?

4- Do you believe that The Messiah Jesus Peace Be Upon Him will return to Earth ( Physically ) before the end of times and Rule?

5- What is the Bahai Belief on Paradise, purgatory and Hell?

6- What do you know about the Antichrist?

 

[TonyBS]

Hello TonyBS.
I have got few questions I would like to ask you about if you do not mind.

Gunner7070 - Questions are good

1- What was the purpose of our creation?

To Know and Love God is the short answer.

2- Do you believe that there will be a last day on this earth?

We all have our last day on this earth. The Earth will be here for many many years to come.

There are numerous Days of God that start and end. Each end is also a new beginning.

3- What does the Oneness of God means to a Bahai?

That there is only One God and that all His Revelations are to teach us we are all but a creation of God to know him and Love Him.

4- Do you believe that The Messiah Jesus Peace Be Upon Him will return to Earth ( Physically ) before the end of times and Rule?

Yes, this did happen starting on May 23rd 2hrs and 11 minutes after sunset 1844. This was the end of the old world and a new world was given unto us.

5- What is the Bahai Belief on Paradise, purgatory and Hell?

Big subject. Heaven is nearness to God, hell is remoteness from God.

6- What do you know about the Antichrist?

This is the person that in every Day of God arises to squash the new Faith of God. In the time of Muhammad it WS in the year 666. In Baha’u’llah time it was His Half Brother.

Short answers, but the basis of what I believe to be Truth.

Regards Tony

 

[TomFromMD]

John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
…
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Word, who in context is clearly Jesus, is said to be God, is said to be with God, is said to be the Son, and is said to have come from the Father. This is entirely contrary to Muslim teaching. I don’t see how one can reconcile it with 4:171 -

for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son.

I don’t see how one can claim that Islam and Christianity are compatible without throwing out John 1 (and a lot of other stuff, for that matter).

 

[TonyBS]

Why would a Manifestation create a Religion, then only to have the members of that Religion , reject the Manifestation that started it

That is direct deception of the view we put forward and you know it.

We full endorse all the Religions of God, I was brought up in the Christian Faith and in no way have rejected Jesus the Christ, in fact I feel I know Him better and much deeper than before. I have accepted Him as He promised to Come.

I have changed my mind how the Church interpreted Scripture.

Regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

Hello TonyBS.
I have got few questions I would like to ask you about if you do not mind.

1- What was the purpose of our creation?

2- Do you believe that there will be a last day on this earth?

3- What does the Oneness of God means to a Bahai?h

4- Do you believe that The Messiah Jesus Peace Be Upon Him will return to Earth ( Physically ) before the end of times and Rule?

5- What is the Bahai Belief on Paradise, purgatory and Hell?

6- What do you know about the Antichrist?

Dear Gunner,

This is a tribute to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I hope you will like.

“Blessing and peace be upon Him [Muhammad] through Whose advent Bathá [Mecca] is wreathed in smiles, and the sweet savours of Whose raiment have shed fragrance upon all mankind-- He Who came to protect men from that which would harm them in the world below. Exalted, immensely exalted is His station above the glorification of all beings and sanctified from the praise of the entire creation. Through His advent the tabernacle of stability and order was raised throughout the world and the ensign of knowledge hoisted among the nations. May blessings rest also upon His kindred and His companions through whom the standard of the unity of God and of His singleness was uplifted and the banners of celestial triumph were unfurled. Through them the religion of God was firmly established among His creatures and His Name magnified amidst His servants.”

• Tablets of Baha’u’llah revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 162

 

[Techno2000]

That is direct deception of the view we put forward and you know it.

We full endorse all the Religions of God, I was brought up in the Christian Faith and in no way have rejected Jesus the Christ, in fact I feel I know Him better and much deeper than before. I have accepted Him as He promised to Come.

I have changed my mind how the Church interpreted Scripture.

Regards Tony

Sorry, I must have made myself unclear…

Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all reject the idea of Baha’u’llah and “Manifestations of God” so why would a manifestation create all these Religions only to have its members of these Religions reject the ideas of Bahaism ?

 

[Servant19]

Sorry, I must have made myself unclear…

Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all reject the idea of Baha’u’llah and “Manifestations of God” so why would a manifestation create all these Religions only to have its members of these Religions reject the ideas of Bahaism ?

Firstly not all members reject, but a lot do, just as the Jews and Noahides etc rejected Jesus.

Why would God send Moses and Noah only for their adherents to reject Jesus?

The answer is because people reject Progressive Revelation.

.

 

[Servant19]

They reject Jesus death. Pope Francis first point of Charity is Jesus himself who suffered death and was buried and rose on the third day. Motivated by Jesus’ unconditional love.

This year the year of Mercy. The motivation is Jesus for what he did. Forgive us our trespasses as we Forgive those who trespass against us. The prayer still applies today.

Forgive them Father for they know not what they do ".

MJ

Doesn’t mean that Muslims reject Jesus as a Redeemer for mankind…

.

 

[hasantas]

As I said in an another thread to someone, in the case of differing Bible translations, your best it is always the Greek.

Yet Greek is not original language of Jesus! That means revelation had might moved away from fundamental text.It is very possible to add unto or take out something from original text through interpretation.

 

[MartinJordan]

Doesn’t mean that Muslims reject Jesus as a Redeemer for mankind…

.

True. They reject Jesus as THE Redeemer of Mankind. He alone.

THE REDEEMER OF MAN, Jesus Christ, is the centre of the universe and of history. To him go my thoughts and my heart in this solemn moment of the world that the Church and the whole family of present-day humanity are now living - John Paul II.

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_04031979_redemptor-hominis.html

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Yet Greek is not original language of Jesus! That means revelation had might moved away from fundamental text.It is very possible to add unto or take out something from original text through interpretation.

And this from someone who uses the Bible. Makes no sense Hasantas.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

True. They reject Jesus as THE Redeemer of Mankind. He alone.

THE REDEEMER OF MAN, Jesus Christ, is the centre of the universe and of history. To him go my thoughts and my heart in this solemn moment of the world that the Church and the whole family of present-day humanity are now living - John Paul II.

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_04031979_redemptor-hominis.html

MJ

And so they should.

They know what they know, which is what Christians rejecting Muhammad know not.

The same principle applies to Christians rejecting Jewish belief that Moses is the only Prophet they will ever need, eternally, and Jesus was just a good rabbi, at best.

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Yet Greek is not original language of Jesus! That means revelation had might moved away from fundamental text.It is very possible to add unto or take out something from original text through interpretation.

That doesn’t follow. The connection between the apostles and Greek is fairly significant if we take into consideration that the empire at the time spoke Greek. The apostles, following Jesus’ command to go into the world would have necessarily have spoken in Greek. Why should we expect that the authors of the Bible would be primarily concerned with writing in Hebrew or Aramaic, languages which were limited in their scope? Some maybe were, like Mathew or Hebrews but the church deliberately chose to convey the words of Christ in the Greek. Where is the evidence of a significant corruption in the process? You can’t appeal to any Aramaic or earlier source and therefore your claim is an unwarranted assumption.

If it is your argument that in translation something is lost, the retort to that is the scriptures were written by those who understood Christ in the Greek as well as in aramaic (most of the NT writers being obviously Jews). I will not grant that by translation we loose the fullness of something, that would be like saying we can’t understand Saint Paul because he expressed himself in Greek and obviously the gospel can only be expressed in Aramaic, thus we have a distorted picture in the Greek of what Paul was able to say. Paul was able to speak to the people of Jerusalem in their own language and he was able to speak to the Greek world in their language. Where is the supposed conflict that destroys the original message of Jesus? Why also should we negate the role of the spirit in this process? That since the church has received the gospels as they are and this was the will of God that they are trustworthy?

God did not intend for his Church to falter, for what he established with Christ to be lost and hence the Gospel is reliable. Unless you would like to argue that the deposit left to us by Christ and his apostles has been corrupted. Did Allah allow this? Why won’t he allow it with the Quran? Can you trust the promises in your literature about the perseverance of the truth of Islam like we trust in the claims of Christ concerning his Church?

 

[JimmyDFG]

There isn’t such a thing as all other manifestations. Ask a Muslim. Then try to convince them as per definition your Faith claims. See what happens.

MJ

Wouldn’t John14:6 be a clear indication that they’re no “manifestation” to come?