Early islamic historians, how important are they to muslims?

[TonyBS]

In Australia. I went to De La Salle,Ashfield, NSW.
When I was a child it was a parish in Rushcutters Bay NSW I think St Canices Church where I used to go to the Mission was so beautiful. Learnt so much.

stcanice.org.au

So many wonderful memories engraved on my heart forever. I was educated as a Catholic for 15 years. Then I strayed away for about 5 years.

I came from a broken home where my father had abandoned me so I suffered depression and rejection and couldn’t study. Then I took up various jobs and one day I became disillusioned with life and decided to end it.

I went to see the poor shelters and went & visited the different sects and asked them why, if they talk about love aren’t they united and just saying bad things about each other. They couldn’t answer so I went and visited other religions and they all condemned each other and said the other was false. I said we had to have love in the world and forget our differences but they were all stubborn and insisted they were right and all others wrong. I could never accept that fellow human beings treat each other so cruelly. Wars and hatred, prejudice and division when it was so easy to choose love. I saw no hope for humanity…

At that time I decided to end my life and took 50 largactil and slashed my wrists and ended up being found and taken to hospital. I said I didn’t want to live in a world that doesn’t have love. I was for days in a coma and for a long time after had double vision.

Then I was moved to a mental asylum, But as soon as I began speaking about the world needing love they would grab me and stab me with an injection and lock me in a room in a strait jacket. This happened again and again for a total of 6 suicide attempts.

I was calling for help but no answer. They ended up diagnosing me as a chronic schizopheprenic and gave me 6 course of electric shock treatment to try and make me forget about love and to make it not matter anymore.

My poor mother couldn’t bear to take me home so a friend at work said he knew some friends who would put me up for a few weeks until I recovered. They were Baha’is but they didn’t tell me that.

Then I met more Baha’is and I liked them but when I found out they believed in God I was angry and I felt sorry for them. I felt that here we have an almost perfect solution to my dilemma only there is a God involved. And God meant ‘I’m right and all others are false’ and that’s what I had run away from. I was tired of division, prejudice and hatred in the world.

But it troubled me greatly the Baha’is happiness and steadiness of soul. People who believe in God should be condemning other faiths but the Bahais loved them all which made me upset that why religious people are not fighting so I had to try and expose the Baha’is as liars and deceivers. I tested and asked questions and no matter what I threw at them they always had an excellent answer which made me more mad as I was positive they were false. So I started reading their books to try and find some way of disproving their philosophy as a wild utopian dream that can never be,

I started writing a book against a chapter of Abdul-Baha called Proofs and evidences of the Existance of God. My Book was called the proofs and evidences of the non existence of God.

I was winning and absolutely certain I had beaten Abdul-Bah as these Baha’is were false and I was absolutely sure I could prove it. I then came across some writings I didn’t understand and the longer I tried to think of a counter argument the harder it became until I realised Abdul-Baha was right and I was wrong so I then said ‘OK God you’re there’.

Then I began reading some other Bahai Books and for 3 days and nights when it dawned on me what this was all about I wept for days with joy at what I’d discovered unintentionally by opposing the Bahai Faith with all my heart, mind and soul.

When I found out who Baha’u’llah was I wanted to give my life for Him. I travelled the world announcing the joyful tidings. I was never worthy of this blessing unasked and even I opposed it vehemently. That was 40 years ago and I’m still unworthy and will never understand why I was blessed by the Holy Spirit and Angels of heaven. my Father abandoned me but God took me as His own and He is the best Father anyone could want. I should have just died in the gutter. I was an enemy of the Baha’is yet He still kept showing me and guiding me until the Holy Spirit announced to my heart that my Beloved Lord has come and the world will be loved back to life again. There is no person more unworthy that exists than me. I live an illusion now hoping , praying although futile to thank Him befittingly but no deed I do can ever thank Him.

The Catholics instilled into me the love of Jesus in my early days until the Baha’is came along and fanned the flame of my love for Him into a blazing sun.

All I can say is there’s ‘something very beautiful’ waiting to be discovered. Keep looking. Keep questioning. Keep challenging. My biggest frustration is I can’t give this gift to anyone. One must earn it according to the intensity of their love for the Lord in His Heart.

Sorry if anyone is offended by anything I have written in this post but I feel I can share with you because of your love deep love for your Lord.

David - I love your Heart dear friend, i love the Love

I also hope we meet some day, it is fate that Servant and I will very soon :extrahappy:

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

In Australia. I went to De La Salle,Ashfield, NSW.
When I was a child it was a parish in Rushcutters Bay NSW I think St Canices Church where I used to go to the Mission was so beautiful. Learnt so much.

stcanice.org.au

So many wonderful memories engraved on my heart forever. I was educated as a Catholic for 15 years. Then I strayed away for about 5 years.

What did you learn about the Mass?

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

What did you learn about the Mass?

MJ

The mass, holy communion, confession, the stations of the cross all inflamed my love for Jesus. I adored Jesus so much. No one knew how much and no one knows how much I still do. The mass was in Latin thrn and the chanting in Latin was so uplifting and affected my soul deeply.

It’s strange but although there were statues of Jesus and Mary and Joseph and the Stations of the Cross they just helped me focus and I never worshipped them but my heart worshipped Jesus in spirit and Mary I loved her so, so much and still do as she is forever in my heart.

When I was young once there was a newspaper article that the end of the world was nigh. I cried and became terrified and was very scared.

I always loved the sermons and looked forward so much to stories especially about Jesus. All my focus and centre was always on Jesus. And that has never changed.

When I would go to mass and receive communion, all day I would feel Jesus in me because I had asked Him into my heart. And for that day at least I did very many good things and was nice to everyone.

It was always a beautiful experience being a Catholic and many beautiful spiritual teachings have been engraved upon my heart forever thanks to Catholicism and wonderful Catholic missions and priests.

 

[TonyBS]

The mass, holy communion, confession, the stations of the cross all inflamed my love for Jesus. I adored Jesus so much. No one knew how much and no one knows how much I still do. The mass was in Latin thrn and the chanting in Latin was so uplifting and affected my soul deeply.

It’s strange but although there were statues of Jesus and Mary and Joseph and the Stations of the Cross they just helped me focus and I never worshipped them but my heart worshipped Jesus in spirit and Mary I loved her so, so much and still do as she is forever in my heart.

When I was young once there was a newspaper article that the end of the world was nigh. I cried and became terrified and was very scared.

I always loved the sermons and looked forward so much to stories especially about Jesus. All my focus and centre was always on Jesus. And that has never changed.

When I would go to mass and receive communion, all day I would feel Jesus in me because I had asked Him into my heart. And for that day at least I did very many good things and was nice to everyone.

It was always a beautiful experience being a Catholic and many beautiful spiritual teachings have been engraved upon my heart forever thanks to Catholicism and wonderful Catholic missions and priests.

That David is a wonderful Love of Christ and I thank Baha’u’llah for giving it to me as well.

Without this message I would have never looked for Truth in any other. To find my Church of England Background and young Baptisim was of great worth and a most strong foundation was most wonderful.

God bless all and regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

That David is a wonderful Love of Christ and I thank Baha’u’llah for giving it to me as well.

Without this message I would have never looked for Truth in any other. To find my Church of England Background and young Baptisim was of great worth and a most strong foundation was most wonderful.

God bless all and regards Tony

Thanks Tony.

My mother was a wonderful Catholic. I never saw her get angry once in my life!!!. If I was naughty and argumentive she would cry but she never fought me, only loved me. She was a true Catholic. But when I brought her news of Baha’u’llah she accepted it almost immediately. I am sure she has met Jesus and all the Prophets in the next world and I never cried at her funeral as I never felt she died and I felt as a son, the greatest gift and thanks I could give her was to allow her soul to ascend direct to heaven without feeling bad about leaving a grieving son behind. It was her time to be rewarded and not a time for me to be selfish and I am very happy for her as I’m sure she would have met Mary too. Everybody loved her as she was always self sacrificing. She was a very sincere Catholic.

The Catholics have raised some of the most wonderful and beautiful souls on earth and are true and sincere people and I can never thank them enough for all they have done for my life and family.

 

[TonyBS]

Thanks Tony.

My mother was a wonderful Catholic. I never saw her get angry once in my life!!!. If I was naughty and argumentive she would cry but she never fought me, only loved me. She was a true Catholic. But when I brought her news of Baha’u’llah she accepted it almost immediately. I am sure she has met Jesus and all the Prophets in the next world and I never cried at her funeral as I never felt she died and I felt as a son, the greatest gift and thanks I could give her was to allow her soul to ascend direct to heaven without feeling bad about leaving a grieving son behind. It was her time to be rewarded and not a time for me to be selfish and I am very happy for her as I’m sure she would have met Mary too. Everybody loved her as she was always self sacrificing. She was a very sincere Catholic.

The Catholics have raised some of the most wonderful and beautiful souls on earth and are true and sincere people and I can never thank them enough for all they have done for my life and family.

I like it David that your Mother will be bathed in the Ocean of Gods light. Our Prayers for each other builds bridges accross the world, throughout creation and bind us together in all the Worlds of God.

I know your mother will have much joy in having such a wonderful connection with her Son.

I had a friend tell of a dream he had. His friend had passed away and he often offered prayers for him. When they met in the dream the friend thanks him for the prayers and said they had great effect and pointed to a shaft of light like a fountain where people were gathered. His friend in the dream said these were our prayers for them.

I like the concept, it is conformed in the Bahai Writings that Prayers offered in this world and the next can all be answered by God. Thus pray for them as they pray for us.

Regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

Dear Tony,

I said prayers for everyone here and you and Kam and I feel the loving prayers of the Catholics here and feel humbled and most undeserving of their loving prayers but thank them.

They don’t need to tell me they pray for us because Catholics are that kind of people that they pray for the souls of others. I feel their prayers and love being here very much.

This is NOT for Kam to read… KAM Thus far and no farther!!!

Today it was chocolate milk and fried chicken and plain yoghurt and grapes. Tomorrow midday and half the Fast is over already!!!

Eat well Tony and Kam if you are reading this you shouldn’t be!! Love to everyone - David

 

[MartinJordan]

The mass, holy communion, confession, the stations of the cross all inflamed my love for Jesus. I adored Jesus so much. No one knew how much and no one knows how much I still do. The mass was in Latin thrn and the chanting in Latin was so uplifting and affected my soul deeply.

With respect to this thread, I think we’re deviating too much. Muslims will not find you’ve found worldcitizen. While I applaud you to state some of the Sacramental aspects of Christian life, I have to ask again and more specifically what is the Mass for?

Do you think Muslims even understand even half of things you listed?

It’s strange but although there were statues of Jesus and Mary and Joseph and the Stations of the Cross they just helped me focus and I never worshipped them but my heart worshipped Jesus in spirit and Mary I loved her so, so much and still do as she is forever in my heart.

We have never worshiped statues. I’m puzzled why you state it is strange when statues aren’t for worship, because worship is only due to God alone. Can you more clearer what you mean? Did you not learn even the Old Testament, God asked that statues be made?

When I was young once there was a newspaper article that the end of the world was nigh. I cried and became terrified and was very scared.

I don’t see how this is connected to the Mass.

I always loved the sermons and looked forward so much to stories especially about Jesus. All my focus and centre was always on Jesus. And that has never changed.

The Mass, worldcitizen is not about coming to hear the priest tell Jesus stories. Plus that Jesus is not the focus and centre of Mass.

When I would go to mass and receive communion, all day I would feel Jesus in me because I had asked Him into my heart. And for that day at least I did very many good things and was nice to everyone.

I think there is a confusion here. It is not Jesus just in your heart. One actually consumes the real flesh and blood of Jesus. More exactly Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. So the discerning must take place first before one take the Holy Communion so we can receive the Graces to participate in the life of God.

It was always a beautiful experience being a Catholic and many beautiful spiritual teachings have been engraved upon my heart forever thanks to Catholicism and wonderful Catholic missions and priests.

I commend you for saying nice things worldcitizen. But I think you will need to understand Catholicism better.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

With respect to this thread, I think we’re deviating too much. Muslims will not find you’ve found worldcitizen. While I applaud you to state some of the Sacramental aspects of Christian life, I have to ask again and more specifically what is the Mass for?

Do you think Muslims even understand even half of things you listed?

We have never worshiped statues. I’m puzzled why you state it is strange when statues aren’t for worship, because worship is only due to God alone. Can you more clearer what you mean? Did you not learn even the Old Testament, God asked that statues be made?

I don’t see how this is connected to the Mass.

The Mass, worldcitizen is not about coming to hear the priest tell Jesus stories. Plus that Jesus is not the focus and centre of Mass.

I think there is a confusion here. It is not Jesus just in your heart. One actually consumes the real flesh and blood of Jesus. More exactly Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. So the discerning must take place first before one take the Holy Communion so we can receive the Graces to participate in the life of God.

I commend you for saying nice things worldcitizen. But I think you will need to understand Catholicism better.

MJ

Dear Martin,

Mass is something very difficult to explain in words. It’s a spiritual experience. Something very difficult to convey in words. So I struggle in trying to adequately state in words sufficiently what is an experience. It is a communion with God. For a Catholic, mass is mainly about the Eucharist and the changing of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus which people partake of to receive Christ.

 

[Servant19]

Dear Tony,

I said prayers for everyone here and you and Kam and I feel the loving prayers of the Catholics here and feel humbled and most undeserving of their loving prayers but thank them.

They don’t need to tell me they pray for us because Catholics are that kind of people that they pray for the souls of others. I feel their prayers and love being here very much.

This is NOT for Kam to read… KAM Thus far and no farther!!!

Today it was chocolate milk and fried chicken and plain yoghurt and grapes. Tomorrow midday and half the Fast is over already!!!

Eat well Tony and Kam if you are reading this you shouldn’t be!! Love to everyone - David

LOL

Such a thoughtful post David!
Luckily I read it after my pasta xox

.

 

[Techno2000]

Dear Martin,

Mass is something very difficult to explain in words. It’s a spiritual experience. Something very difficult to convey in words. So I struggle in trying to adequately state in words sufficiently what is an experience. It is a communion with God. For a Catholic, mass is mainly about the Eucharist and the changing of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus which people partake of to receive Christ.

It’s also a reenactment of the crucifixion, but it happens in the unseen supernatural world.
michaeljournal.org/holymass.htm

 

[worldcitizen]

It’s also a reenactment of the crucifixion, but it happens in the unseen supernatural world.
michaeljournal.org/holymass.htm

Thanks for that Joey. It happens invisibly.

 

[MartinJordan]

Dear Martin,

Mass is something very difficult to explain in words. It’s a spiritual experience. Something very difficult to convey in words. So I struggle in trying to adequately state in words sufficiently what is an experience. It is a communion with God. For a Catholic, mass is mainly about the Eucharist and the changing of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus which people partake of to receive Christ.

Worldcitizen, I’m not asking about the “spiritual feeling” about Mass. It’s not difficult to explain what the Mass is. I want to get it understood why is the Mass there in the first place.

Sure it is a communion with God so you agree this is the One True God ?And if it is a communion with the One True God then the Mass should be given precedence always , as
participating in the Life of God Himself.

Then Come back to Him. He is calling you. He calls all mankind to be reconciled with Him. Do you see? So the Mass is the Source and Summit correct?

MJ

 

[Techno2000]

Worldcitizen, I’m not asking about feelings about the experience about Mass. It’s not difficult to explain what the Mass is. Whether it is very spiritual also isn’t why the Mass even exists. I want to get it understood why is the Mass there in the first place?

Sure it is a communion with God so you agree this is the One True God ?And if it is a communion with the One True God then the Mass should be given precedence always , as
participating in the Life of God Himself.

Then Come back to Him. He is calling you. He calls all mankind to be reconciled with Him. Do you see?

MJ

He sees… but something is holding him back.

 

[TonyBS]

Worldcitizen, I’m not asking about the “spiritual feeling” about Mass. It’s not difficult to explain what the Mass is. I want to get it understood why is the Mass there in the first place.

Sure it is a communion with God so you agree this is the One True God ?And if it is a communion with the One True God then the Mass should be given precedence always , as
participating in the Life of God Himself.

Then Come back to Him. He is calling you. He calls all mankind to be reconciled with Him. Do you see? So the Mass is the Source and Summit correct?

MJ

Dear Martin - Then Come back to Him. He is calling you. He calls all mankind to be reconciled with Him. Do you see?

Could be applicable to the person that wrote it

God bless and Regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

Worldcitizen, I’m not asking about the “spiritual feeling” about Mass. It’s not difficult to explain what the Mass is. I want to get it understood why is the Mass there in the first place.

Sure it is a communion with God so you agree this is the One True God ?And if it is a communion with the One True God then the Mass should be given precedence always , as
participating in the Life of God Himself.

Then Come back to Him. He is calling you. He calls all mankind to be reconciled with Him. Do you see? So the Mass is the Source and Summit correct?

MJ

I’m already back. I’m home. I receive manna direct from heaven now and am in no need of the ritual of mass anymore. I constantly refill from an invisible source instantly. When I receive manna directly from the Father Himself and am filled with the Holy Spirit I am in a constant state of mass.

 

[Techno2000]

I receive manna direct from heaven now and am in no need of the ritual of mass anymore…

Tell us david what is this teaching of bahaism about getting manna direct from Heaven ?

 

[MartinJordan]

Dear Martin - Then Come back to Him. He is calling you. He calls all mankind to be reconciled with Him. Do you see?

Could be applicable to the person that wrote it

God bless and Regards Tony

Im having a one on one heart to heart talk with worldcitizen. Kindly be fair to me and either respond to my points or at least reflect on what the Mass is. It will be highly appreciated.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

I’m already back. I’m home. I receive manna direct from heaven now and am in no need of the ritual of mass anymore. I constantly refill from an invisible source instantly. When I receive manna directly from the Father Himself and am filled with the Holy Spirit I am in a constant state of mass.

You left the Church for 5 years did you not? Do you not remember what happens during the celebration of the Eucharist when the manna is reenacted just as Jesus said he is the manna ?

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

You left the Church for 5 years did you not? Do you not remember what happens during the celebration of the Eucharist when the manna is reenacted just as Jesus said he is the manna ?

MJ

The priest changes the bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Christ.