Early islamic historians, how important are they to muslims?

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worldcitizen said:
The priest changes the bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Christ.
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Not quite. More specific please. Who is the Priest? What are the bread are the bread and wine? When is the last time you had seen Mass? The latter can be the best thing you can do.

There is order in the Mass. Otherwise disorder.

Perhaps if you don’t know and need help to understand best for you to go for the RCIA. I’m busy imparting to my children the Truth of the Gospel. My job as as father. They understand through constant prayer with family and in the bigger community of believers. The Mass so much to know. God is knowable.

MJ
 
worldcitizen said:
I’m already back. I’m home. I receive manna direct from heaven now and am in no need of the ritual of mass anymore. I constantly refill from an invisible source instantly. When I receive manna directly from the Father Himself and am filled with the Holy Spirit I am in a constant state of mass.
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You cannot serve two masters
 
MartinJordan said:
Not quite. More specific please. Who is the Priest? What are the bread are the bread and wine? When is the last time you had seen Mass? The latter can be the best thing you can do.

There is order in the Mass. Otherwise disorder.

Perhaps if you don’t know and need help to understand best for you to go for the RCIA. I’m busy imparting to my children the Truth of the Gospel. My job as as father. They understand through constant prayer with family and in the bigger community of believers. The Mass so much to know. God is knowable.

MJ
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John 6:35

"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Thus Christ expresses “coming to him” as eating; and “believing in him” as drinking. To eat is to draw near to Him, and to drink is to believe in Him."

I believe in every Word Christ spoke in this passage but I interpret that verse symbolically not literally. So each and every Bahai and Muslim in the world who believes in Jesus is eating and drinking of Him as in coming to Him and believing in Him.

Again… To ‘drink’ is to believe. By this Jesus meant the ‘spirit’ as below.

John 7:37-39

37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

And yet again… Jesus ‘meat’ is to do the ‘will of God’

John 4:31-34

31In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. 32But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of. 33Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? 34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

It’s abundantly clear beyond doubt to me that Christ spoke metaphorically not literally and that His Words meant simply to believe and obey Him to receive spiritual nourishment.
 
worldcitizen said:
John 6:35

"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Thus Christ expresses “coming to him” as eating; and “believing in him” as drinking. To eat is to draw near to Him, and to drink is to believe in Him."

I believe in every Word Christ spoke in this passage but I interpret that verse symbolically not literally. So each and every Bahai and Muslim in the world who believes in Jesus is eating and drinking of Him as in coming to Him and believing in Him.

Again… To ‘drink’ is to believe. By this Jesus meant the ‘spirit’ as below.

John 7:37-39

37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

And yet again… Jesus ‘meat’ is to do the ‘will of God’

John 4:31-34

31In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. 32But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of. 33Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? 34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

It’s abundantly clear beyond doubt to me that Christ spoke metaphorically not literally and that His Words meant simply to believe and obey Him to receive spiritual nourishment.
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I see worldcitizen, you are not able to understand who the Priest is. Besides the above verses are **part **of Jesus’ teaching, as he goes on, he makes it clearer and clearer what he means. Thats why many walked away. Till Simon Peter was asked whether he was also going away.

It seems that you never really understood when you were Catholic (even I was like that if you must know). But Now No longer ignorant and carefully following the teachings and understood my Baptismal promises and reading Scripture not partly but fully. Took some time but after having a family it made much more satisfying how through the Sacraments God helps all to reconcile with him.

Getting back to Muslims, they reject Jesus’ words, except what they say are Jesus’ words (from Quran). None of his words above are used in Islamic teaching whatsoever.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I see worldcitizen, you are not able to understand who the Priest is. Besides the above verses are **part **of Jesus’ teaching, as he goes on, he makes it clearer and clearer what he means. Thats why many walked away. Till Simon Peter was asked whether he was also going away.

It seems that you never really understood when you were Catholic (even I was like that if you must know). But Now No longer ignorant and carefully following the teachings and understood my Baptismal promises and reading Scripture not partly but fully. Took some time but after having a family it made much more satisfying how through the Sacraments God helps all to reconcile with him.

Getting back to Muslims, they reject Jesus’ words, except what they say are Jesus’ words (from Quran). None of his words above are used in Islamic teaching whatsoever.

MJ
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With Muslims I know they believe and accept Jesus but I think each Muslim’s deepens of b elder in Jesus may be different. Some may read thrnBible regularly some may not.
 
worldcitizen said:
With Muslims I know they believe and accept Jesus but I think each Muslim’s deepens of b elder in Jesus may be different. Some may read thrnBible regularly some may not.
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Apparently Muslims don’t have a rudimentary understanding of Jesus.

So who is the Priest? What is the bread and wine? You will need to understand Judaism to have some idea.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Apparently Muslims don’t have a rudimentary understanding of Jesus.

So who is the Priest? What is the bread and wine? You will need to understand Judaism to have some idea.

MJ
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To Catholics the priest is seen as Christ and the bread and wine as the flesh and blood or body of Christ.
 
Did we ever find out the importance of early Islamic historians to Muslims?
 
worldcitizen said:
It depends which verse of the Bible. Not all references in the Bible about “Lamb of God” are referring to Christ.
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**Like a lamb led to the slaughter

Isaiah 53:7

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

1 Corinthians 5:7

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:29

And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Revelation 5:9**
 
Techno2000 said:
**Like a lamb led to the slaughter

Isaiah 53:7

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

1 Corinthians 5:7

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:29

And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Revelation 5:9**
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Sorry but not all those verses refer to Jesus. Particularly the ‘new song’ verse. Jesus sung the old song. You’ve got your songs and Lambs mixed up Joey!!
 
worldcitizen said:
Sorry but not all those verses refer to Jesus. Particularly the ‘new song’ verse. Jesus sung the old song. You’ve got your songs and Lambs mixed up Joey!!
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John 1:29

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:36

36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”

1 Peter 1:19

19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

Revelation 5:2

And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”

9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Revelation 5:12

12 In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”

Worldcitizen, Im beginning to feel you don’t care about Jesus. 😦

MJ
 
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