Easter Greeting From the Mormons.

[Soler]

Many other denominations whose baptisms you do consider valid have very different views regarding doctrine and dogma than do the Catholics, yet you still consider them to be ‘Christian,’ and thus accept their baptisms.

But you have this list of qualifications that must be met in order to fulfill your definition of “Christian.” I believe I addressed that issue in a post that nobody has actually responded to.

Different denominations have different lists—and that’s why Catholics are on the ‘non-Christian’ side of the lists of a WHOLE bunch of Protestants.

I believe that this fact–that Catholics are considered to be non-Christian by a bunch of other Christians–is a pretty good argument against the ‘list’ approach.

Diana

Ah, but the Catholic Church is the SUPREME ARBITRER in all matters spiritual (muahahahahaha), and the power to define the word “Christian” therefore belongs to her.

…

Oh wait, you don’t believe in the Catholic Church.

…

I guess we shall never persuade you, then.

—Soler.

 

[ricko]

There are over 2,000 different churches in the U.S. alone, all identifying themselves as Christians yet with as many different beliefs in everything from baptism to the nature of God.

With so many different teachings who is to define what a Christian is? Do we accept 2,000 different definitions of what constitutes a Christian. Obviously that will not work as common sense would tell us that there can be only one definition of the word “Christian”

Only one Church was established by God. That Church was given the authority to teach and loose and bind and promised the guidance of the Holy Spirit till the end of the world.
Only the Catholic Church has the authority to teach the gospel and to define its meaning.
Therefore, by virtue of its proven authority, only the Catholic Church can define what it is to be a Christian.

It is not a matter of who is right or wrong, its not me or you and our personal beliefs or feelings. It’s about what Jesus did and what Jesus wants. Now each person believes that he or she knows for sure that the religion they are members of is “the one true church”. But we all know that there is truly only “one true church” not 2,000. Only the Catholic Church dates back to the time of Christ and history proves it. The Mormon church dates to the 19th century. Establish not by God but by a man claiming to be a prophet. History shows the Mormon church to be established by Joseph Smith, all credence is given to Joseph Smith as a prophet to restore a church that never needed restoring.

One Mormon in this thread wanted to know that if the Mormon church was not considered Christian then how was it classified. Due to the many teachings that are not Christian, the Mormon church is classified as a cult.

 

[why_me]

That is a ridiculous statement about speaking. (sorry if this is off-topic). I have given several speeches in front of relatively large audiences. You plan audience reactions.

I don’t think that the laughter was planned. I also don’t think that it was a malicious laugh from the audience. What happened is that tundramom wanted all to overlook the message and concentrate on the laughter. It was a good message from Holland.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t think that the laughter was planned. I also don’t think that it was a malicious laugh from the audience. What happened is that tundramom wanted all to overlook the message and concentrate on the laughter. It was a good message from Holland.

You believe denying the Trinity is a good message?

 

[why_me]

You believe denying the Trinity is a good message?

I think that he explained the mormon position. And he did it well. And so, it was a good message. I must say that I have no opinion about the Trinity but the mormon idea does make sense. But then, I also don’t think that it matters much what one thinks about the trinity—either mormon or catholic.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think that he explained the mormon position. And he did it well. And so, it was a good message. I must say that I have no opinion about the Trinity but the mormon idea does make sense. But then, I also don’t think that it matters much what one thinks about the trinity—either mormon or catholic.

The trinity a very difficult concept. Catholics don’t mind that it’s a mystery they can’t comprehend. It seems like the LDS are more pragmatic. They want to explain things in a way that people can comprehend.

I wish people would focus more on what we have in common, than throwing stones. There is a definite sense of the Son being separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit as he died on the cross. So even if God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one, there is a sense of separation at times in the NT that can’t be denied.

 

[dianaiad]

are we talking about doctrine on the Trinity, because that is the whole issue about accepting or not accepting another faith’s baptism. We’re well aware that certain groups consider the Catholic Church non-Christian (the CARM forums are hilarious), however we’re talking about the nature of God and how that relates to valid baptism, which is why the Catholic Church does not accept LDS baptism.

Your insistence upon the belief in the Trinity as you define it is one of the items on your list of ‘things one must believe in order to be Christian.’

This is my point: you have your list, other people have theirs, and their lists are different from yours. As a result, you are excluded from ‘Christianity’ by those whose lists ARE different.

It doesn’t matter what the individual items on those lists actually ARE, y’know. Trinity, transubstantiation, immersion over sprinkling, music in church, no music in church, snake handling, teetotalling, shoulders covered vs. sleeveless dresses, speaking in tongues,–I’ve seen each and every single one of these on some list of 'requirements to be a Christian."

It doesn’t matter what is ON the list; if someone who sincerely believes that he or she is Christian disagrees with the list item, and believes that those who put that item on the list are incorrect, it’s pretty silly to insist that in order to be a Christian that one must believe in that item; it is telling people that in order to be a Christian, you must believe in an incorrect doctrine.

Nobody is going to agree with that except those who think all of Christianity is bunkum.

 

[dianaiad]

Ah, but the Catholic Church is the SUPREME ARBITRER in all matters spiritual (muahahahahaha), and the power to define the word “Christian” therefore belongs to her.

…

Oh wait, you don’t believe in the Catholic Church.

…

I guess we shall never persuade you, then.

—Soler.

I do believe you get the point!. :yup:

 

[dianaiad]

There are over 2,000 different churches in the U.S. alone, all identifying themselves as Christians yet with as many different beliefs in everything from baptism to the nature of God.

With so many different teachings who is to define what a Christian is? Do we accept 2,000 different definitions of what constitutes a Christian. Obviously that will not work as common sense would tell us that there can be only one definition of the word “Christian”

Only one Church was established by God. That Church was given the authority to teach and loose and bind and promised the guidance of the Holy Spirit till the end of the world.
Only the Catholic Church has the authority to teach the gospel and to define its meaning.
Therefore, by virtue of its proven authority, only the Catholic Church can define what it is to be a Christian.

It is not a matter of who is right or wrong, its not me or you and our personal beliefs or feelings. It’s about what Jesus did and what Jesus wants. Now each person believes that he or she knows for sure that the religion they are members of is “the one true church”. But we all know that there is truly only “one true church” not 2,000. Only the Catholic Church dates back to the time of Christ and history proves it. The Mormon church dates to the 19th century. Establish not by God but by a man claiming to be a prophet. History shows the Mormon church to be established by Joseph Smith, all credence is given to Joseph Smith as a prophet to restore a church that never needed restoring.

One Mormon in this thread wanted to know that if the Mormon church was not considered Christian then how was it classified. Due to the many teachings that are not Christian, the Mormon church is classified as a cult.

You were doing really well until you got to ""But we all know that there is only “one true church…Only the Catholic church…”

Because of course, we DON’T all know that. All these other denominations are as aware of history as you are, y’know. They simply do not believe that longevity necessarily equals ‘truth.’ I mean, if they DID ‘know this,’ then there wouldn’t be all those different churches, would there?

…or do you honestly think that all those people who are not Catholic, yet firmly believe that they are Christians, really believe that the Catholics are right and are just being deliberately perverse? Why? For the fun of it? To tweak God’s nose, so to speak?

 

[dianaiad]

The trinity a very difficult concept. Catholics don’t mind that it’s a mystery they can’t comprehend. It seems like the LDS are more pragmatic. They want to explain things in a way that people can comprehend.

I wish people would focus more on what we have in common, than throwing stones. There is a definite sense of the Son being separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit as he died on the cross. So even if God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one, there is a sense of separation at times in the NT that can’t be denied.

Yeah, there is that “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” line that should give anybody a little pause. How DOES one explain that one in terms of the Trinity?

 

[mormonboy]

Yeah, there is that “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” line that should give anybody a little pause. How DOES one explain that one in terms of the Trinity?

Plus, the line, “Let us make man in our own image.”

Jesus Christ has a body, how can he visit us in spirit today?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Yeah, there is that “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” line that should give anybody a little pause. How DOES one explain that one in terms of the Trinity?

Jesus was speaking to the Father.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Plus, the line, “Let us make man in our own image.”

“In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God.”

The WORD is Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ has a body, how can he visit us in spirit today?

I don’t understand this question.

 

[mormonboy]

“In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God.”

The WORD is Jesus Christ.

I don’t understand this question.

If the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and God are all one, how can we feel the influence of the spirit today? does that make sense?

 

[RebeccaJ]

If the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and God are all one, how can we feel the influence of the spirit today? does that make sense?

They are distinct persons. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit.

So no, it does not make sense.

 

[MarySon]

Yeah, there is that “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” line that should give anybody a little pause. How DOES one explain that one in terms of the Trinity?

Have you ever read Psalm 22? That’s how it begins and it describes the passion of Christ

usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm22.htm

 

[why_me]

The trinity a very difficult concept. Catholics don’t mind that it’s a mystery they can’t comprehend. It seems like the LDS are more pragmatic. They want to explain things in a way that people can comprehend.

I wish people would focus more on what we have in common, than throwing stones. There is a definite sense of the Son being separated from the Father and the Holy Spirit as he died on the cross. So even if God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one, there is a sense of separation at times in the NT that can’t be denied.

You are right. The lds are more pragmatic about the nature of god. They have answers that can fit in a box. And that is not a bad thing. And yes, the trinity is a difficult concept. I also wish that people would concentrate on what they have in common. That has been my whole point on this board when it comes to mormons and catholics. God will not punish mormons or catholics by what they believe in the trinity.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

You are right. The lds are more pragmatic about the nature of god. They have answers that can fit in a box. And that is not a bad thing. And yes, the trinity is a difficult concept. I also wish that people would concentrate on what they have in common. That has been my whole point on this board when it comes to mormons and catholics. God will not punish mormons or catholics by what they believe in the trinity.

I agree, and I really get tired of that argument. I also get tired of some Catholics here who tell Mormons that they aren’t Christians. (It certainly isn’t very Christian of them!)

Seriously, all the different Christian churches are reading the same BIble, and believe in Jesus Christ and his message. Personally, I like the diversity of how people worship. For example, Catholicism is heavy on the sensual experience of worship - incense, singing, beautiful statues and churches, kneeling and standing and the sign of the cross, whereas Mormons and some other Protestents seem more intellectual, reading and discussing and understanding the Bible, and focusing on good works.

 

[Aramis]

The LDS claim Christ pulled the holy spirit from the church; this means Christ lied. Sorry, but they are at best severe heretics. And their sunday ward services a parody of the Roman Mass.

 

[dianaiad]

Certainly I believe Mormons desire to follow Jesus.

You could certainly fool me.

Baptism is how a person is initiated into Christ’s Church. It is the beginning of formal discipleship. Is it enough to say “I follow”? Even as an atheist, I believed Jesus was a real historical figure with revolutionary humanist ideas that I was in agreement with. I had no belief in God. Was I a Christian then?

If you thought you were, you were. If you thought you were not, then you were not.

A Christian is one who chooses to follow Jesus, as a disciple.

Which definition you would qualify as a humanistic follower of the man Jesus with whose opinions you agreed.

This decision begins with conversion, followed by a valid baptism. LDS are followers of Jesus, who have not been converted and accepted a valid baptism.

This is not meant to cause offense. It is a fact.

You blew it as soon as you started adding to the list, Rebecca. NOWHERE is there any officially accepted definition of the word “Christian” that included “conversion and valid baptism.” You may wish it did, but it simply does not.

Again; “Christian” does not mean “saved,” or “correct,” or “true,” or anything like that. It simply means that the belief system the Christian follows is based around Jesus Christ’s teachings as that person believes them to be.

Oh, and the believer kinda needs to declare himself to be a Christian; calling someone “Christian” who objects to the title is just plain rude: that’s why it’s OK to not define Jehovah’s Witnesses as Christian; not because they believe different things about Christ, but because they don’t want to be called “Christian.”

Even though they actually, y’know…are.