Eastern "Cafeteria Catholics"

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oyaji

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For the last few weeks I’ve been trying to learn all I can about the Eastern Catholic Churches because I’m considering changing rites when I go back to the states.

I’ve visited several different Easter Catholic forums and I’ve noticed a trend and I’d like to know what the Easterners on here think.

I’ve lost count of the times I read someone say, 'I’m an Eastern Catholic so I don’t have to listen to or follow what the Pope teaches, that’s only for the Latin Church."

And I’m talking about matters of faith and morals here. A discussion concerning contraception was getting a lot of attention and one of the forum members said that the teachings and ban on contraception found in Human Vitae were not applicable to Eastern Catholics. He went on to say that contraception was between he and his pastor and it didn’t matter what the Pope said because he was an Eastern Catholic.

Now of course this is absurd but the overall vibe I’ve gotten from Eastern Catholics is that while they are indeed in union with the Pope, what he says and teaches can be ignored, even on matters of faith and morals.

So I’m curious as to what you think.
 
Eastern Catholics have to believe the same things like all Catholics. Eastern Catholics are more independent but still have the same faith. We believe what we believe not because the pope said so, we believe it because that is what the Church always teaches over the centuries. The pope is only a help to protect the faith, not to make faith.
 
oyaji said:
I’ve lost count of the times I read someone say, 'I’m an Eastern Catholic so I don’t have to listen to or follow what the Pope teaches, that’s only for the Latin Church."
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Could you provide a link or two? perhaps a direct quote?

Thanks
 
oyaji said:
For the last few weeks I’ve been trying to learn all I can about the Eastern Catholic Churches because I’m considering changing rites when I go back to the states.

I’ve visited several different Easter Catholic forums and I’ve noticed a trend and I’d like to know what the Easterners on here think.

I’ve lost count of the times I read someone say, 'I’m an Eastern Catholic so I don’t have to listen to or follow what the Pope teaches, that’s only for the Latin Church."

And I’m talking about matters of faith and morals here. A discussion concerning contraception was getting a lot of attention and one of the forum members said that the teachings and ban on contraception found in Human Vitae were not applicable to Eastern Catholics. He went on to say that contraception was between he and his pastor and it didn’t matter what the Pope said because he was an Eastern Catholic.

Now of course this is absurd but the overall vibe I’ve gotten from Eastern Catholics is that while they are indeed in union with the Pope, what he says and teaches can be ignored, even on matters of faith and morals.

So I’m curious as to what you think.
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Well, the terminology is a bit mixed.
They are not eastern Catholics but Catholic with an Eastern Rite.
I think that if you are a Catholic, in any rite, you must obey the Pope. What others do, it is none of our business.
Look: There are Catholics who, rob, rape, kill and all the 10 commandments. We are all sinners and Humanae Vita is just one of the issues…
 
andremiguel said:
Well, the terminology is a bit mixed.
They are not eastern Catholics but Catholic with an Eastern Rite.
I think that if you are a Catholic, in any rite, you must obey the Pope. What others do, it is none of our business.
Look: There are Catholics who, rob, rape, kill and all the 10 commandments. We are all sinners and Humanae Vita is just one of the issues…
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No, they are indeed Eastern Catholics. Members of the various particular Eastern Churches are members of actual churches, not rites.
 
oyaji said:
For the last few weeks I’ve been trying to learn all I can about the Eastern Catholic Churches because I’m considering changing rites when I go back to the states.

I’ve visited several different Easter Catholic forums and I’ve noticed a trend and I’d like to know what the Easterners on here think.

I’ve lost count of the times I read someone say, 'I’m an Eastern Catholic so I don’t have to listen to or follow what the Pope teaches, that’s only for the Latin Church."

And I’m talking about matters of faith and morals here. A discussion concerning contraception was getting a lot of attention and one of the forum members said that the teachings and ban on contraception found in Human Vitae were not applicable to Eastern Catholics. He went on to say that contraception was between he and his pastor and it didn’t matter what the Pope said because he was an Eastern Catholic.

Now of course this is absurd but the overall vibe I’ve gotten from Eastern Catholics is that while they are indeed in union with the Pope, what he says and teaches can be ignored, even on matters of faith and morals.

So I’m curious as to what you think.
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Sounds like radical relativism applied to Catholic teaching. The Pope doesn’t teach the entire Catholic Church, but only in the eyes of Latin Catholics. Either the Pope has the teaching (and disciplinary) authority he claims or he does not.

Edit: That’s not to say every teaching of a Pope has the same degree of immediate applicability to Eastern Catholics. Many things the Popes have taught over the years have been in response to crises or other needs in Western Christianity, and have been framed in Western theological language. That doesn’t mean those teachings aren’t equally binding on Eastern Catholics, but if it’s an issue that was never controversial among Eastern Christians they are more likely to shrug and say “that’s what I always believed anyway” than to say “ah, so that’s the truth of the matter.” Likewise if the teaching is in distinctly Latin theological language they may wish to translate it into more Eastern terms in their acceptance of it, though without any substantial change.

In my experience some Eastern Catholics phrase their position on this subject in a way that could be interpreted either way, while others clearly take one position or the other regarding fidelity to Papal authority and the more recent Ecumenical Councils.
 
Why do we always say “we must obey the Pope”? Not that there is anything wrong with it, but first and foremost is that we must obey our own bishop and priest.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Why do we always say “we must obey the Pope”? Not that there is anything wrong with it, but first and foremost is that we must obey our own bishop and priest.
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This is true, in the ordinary course of our lives. Local teaching by one’s own bishop and the presentation of the bishops’ teachings to us by one’s priest is the ordinary way most of us experience the Magisterium of the Church (this was even more true before modern means of communication and wider literacy among the faithful, but it remains an important truth, one that could legitimately be expected to be given even greater emphasis in the Eastern Churches).

However, individual bishops can err and rebel, even into heresy and schism, as we have seen far too many times in the history of the Church, both East and West. This is why fidelity to the Extraordinary Magisterium, exercised by the Popes and, when they meet, the Ecumenical Councils, is also essential. At the very least, even if we aren’t interested in personally reading Papal and Conciliar documents and following events at Rome so long as we know our own bishop and priests are faithful to these, we need to maintain a sort of potential higher submission to Rome in the (hopefully very unlikely) case that our local bishop ever breaks away from it.
 
The pope wears three hats. He is the bishop of the diocese of Rome, he is the patriarch of the west (though he has dropped this title) which means he is the head of the Latin Church, and he is the supreme pontiff (that is head of the universal Catholic Church).

So when the pope speaks we must look to what hats he is wearing at the moment.

When/if he says that female altar servers are not allowed or communion can only be received in the hand for the diocese of Rome he is wearing his bishop hat and what he has commanded is only for the diocese of Rome, not the Latin Church, and not the universal Church.

When he speaks to the Latin bishops and tells them that celibacy is integral to the secular priesthood and that there will be no change to the discipline (law) that says that all secular priests must be celibate he is wearing his patriarchal hat and his words are only for the Latin Church.

So there are somethings that the pope commands/says that Eastern Catholics do not follow.

Some Catholics, mainly Latins in my experience, have trouble with this concept and think that every word from the pope is binding upon all Catholics such as his preference that those receiving the Eucharist from him must do so kneeling and on the tongue.
 
ByzCath said:
The pope wears three hats. He is the bishop of the diocese of Rome, he is the patriarch of the west (though he has dropped this title) which means he is the head of the Latin Church, and he is the supreme pontiff (that is head of the universal Catholic Church).

So when the pope speaks we must look to what hats he is wearing at the moment.

When/if he says that female altar servers are not allowed or communion can only be received in the hand for the diocese of Rome he is wearing his bishop hat and what he has commanded is only for the diocese of Rome, not the Latin Church, and not the universal Church.

When he speaks to the Latin bishops and tells them that celibacy is integral to the secular priesthood and that there will be no change to the discipline (law) that says that all secular priests must be celibate he is wearing his patriarchal hat and his words are only for the Latin Church.

So there are somethings that the pope commands/says that Eastern Catholics do not follow.

Some Catholics, mainly Latins in my experience, have trouble with this concept and think that every word from the pope is binding upon all Catholics such as his preference that those receiving the Eucharist from him must do so kneeling and on the tongue.
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The OP mentioned a specific moral issue…contraception.
 
jam070406 said:
The OP mentioned a specific moral issue…contraception.
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Thank you for pointing that out of me. I don’t know how I missed it.

Contraception is a moral evil. The pope was speaking to the whole Church on that issue. It is not right for an Eastern Catholic to say otherwise.
 
ByzCath said:
Thank you for pointing that out of me. I don’t know how I missed it.

Contraception is a moral evil. The pope was speaking to the whole Church on that issue. It is not right for an Eastern Catholic to say otherwise.
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It is not right for anyone, not only Catholics, to say otherwise 👍
 
ByzCath said:
Thank you for pointing that out of me. I don’t know how I missed it.

Contraception is a moral evil. The pope was speaking to the whole Church on that issue. It is not right for an Eastern Catholic to say otherwise.
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My sentiments exactly. Something like this is for all the Church`s in the Catholic communion as opposed to something like Latin priestly celibacy or any other matter pertaining to the Latin Church only.
 
Thanks for the responses. I should also mention that many, far too many, Latin Rite Catholics ignore the moral and faith precepts of the Holy Father as well.

We need to pray more than ever for our Church.
 
Peter_J said:
This statement seems very strange to me. Who is “they” and why do you say that “they” are not -]eastern /-]Eastern Catholics?
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I think andremiguel’s viewpoint is one that is shared by many Latin Catholics and Eastern Orthodox alike. Its that there is no such thing as Eastern Catholics, only Eastern Rite Roman Catholics. The same way there are no Anglican Catholics, only Anglican Use Catholics.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I think andremiguel’s viewpoint is one that is shared by many Latin Catholics and Eastern Orthodox alike. Its that there is no such thing as Eastern Catholics, only Eastern Rite Roman Catholics.
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That’s news to me – and I’ve conversed with lots of people about the subject.
ConstantineTG said:
The same way there are no Anglican Catholics, only Anglican Use Catholics.
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That, on the other hand, is no surprise to me at all. Indeed, I would say that the majority of Catholics apply the term “Catholic” only to those in full communion with Rome. (FWIW, according to Wikipedia they do exist: “The terms Anglo-Catholic, Anglican Catholic and Catholic Anglican describe people, beliefs and practices within Anglicanism which affirm the Catholic, rather than Protestant, heritage and identity of the Anglican churches.”)
 
Peter_J said:
That’s news to me – and I’ve conversed with lots of people about the subject.
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The term “Roman Catholic” is, I think, most properly used to refer to all Catholics in communion with Rome, rather than as a synonym for “Latin rite Catholic.” However, the term “Eastern Catholic” is very common and not at all inaccurate, particularly if it is not seen as an alternative to being “Roman Catholic.”
 
Peter_J said:
That’s news to me – and I’ve conversed with lots of people about the subject.
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Same here. Roman Catholics either think I’m Protestant or I’m Roman Catholic with a different kind of Mass. I’ve even been told I cannot continue being a Roman Catholic Catechist because I am “non-practicing”, even though I attend Divine Liturgy every Sunday and for all 12 Great Feasts, plus some other notable feasts.
Peter_J said:
That, on the other hand, is no surprise to me at all. Indeed, I would say that the majority of Catholics apply the term “Catholic” only to those in full communion with Rome. (FWIW, according to Wikipedia they do exist: “The terms Anglo-Catholic, Anglican Catholic and Catholic Anglican describe people, beliefs and practices within Anglicanism which affirm the Catholic, rather than Protestant, heritage and identity of the Anglican churches.”)
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Well, yes I do know about the Anglican Catholics, but in our viewpoint they are Catholic in name only. But I guess you got my point.
 
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