Eastern Catholic Priesthood

[trophybearer]

It makes no difference. The current discipline in the Latin Church is for a strictly celibate secular clergy. Period. Feeling a call to both marriage and Holy Orders is not a valid reason to translate to another Church sui juris.

This isn’t my argument, but I don’t see any disrespect whatsoever in Cecilianus’ post.

Why not? I’m not arguing that it is, I’m just curious about why it wouldn’t be. I’ve never really thought too deeply about it.

 

[Cecilianus]

What if that was ONE of MANY reasons? And I also feel that your rationale for a priest wanting to get married simply so he can “have sex” is a tad bit disrespectful to all our married clergy (and even popes) that were in the church before 1139, and to all the eastern rite married clergy. Sex is a major part of marriage, but its not the only component.

The Church has always had celibate bishops - there have never been any Popes living as married men. It was a common pious practice for widowers and men who had separated from their wives to mutually pursue religious vocations to be elected bishops.

I have great respect for married clergy (I have known a number of them), but celibacy is a charism of the priest in the Latin Church, and a truly beautiful one. For a Latin priest to wish to get married is in a way to turn down the fullness of his calling.

 

[notredame_999]

The Church has always had celibate bishops - there have never been any Popes living as married men. It was a common pious practice for widowers and men who had separated from their wives to mutually pursue religious vocations to be elected bishops.

I have great respect for married clergy (I have known a number of them), but celibacy is a charism of the priest in the Latin Church, and a truly beautiful one. For a Latin priest to wish to get married is in a way to turn down the fullness of his calling.

1.) So what do you think about all the married latin priests who lived before 1139? Were they turning down the fullness of their calling?

2.) How could God be calling latin priests from countries like Italy, Germany, Poland, America, Portugal, Canada etc. (the west) to give up families, but at the same time call eastern priests in countries like Lebanon, Ukraine, Iraq etc. (the east) to not give up families?

 

[Cecilianus]

1.) So what do you think about all the married latin priests who lived before 1139? Were they turning down the fullness of their calling?

Yes. The laxity and decadence of the Church in the Dark Ages was notorious; hence the reform.

2.) How could God be calling latin priests from countries like Italy, Germany, Poland, America, Portugal, Canada etc. (the west) to give up families, but at the same time call eastern priests in countries like Lebanon, Ukraine, Iraq etc. (the east) to not give up families?

The simple answer is obedience. It is the will of the Latin Church that priests give up celibacy for the sake of the kingdom, and for Roman priests to obey their Church is for them to obey the Holy Spirit. It is the tradition of the Greek Church that priests marry, and for Eastern priests to obey their Church is for them to obey the Holy Spirit. I personally wish the Eastern Church had embraced celibacy when the Latins did, but as you probably know relations between the two were pretty poor at the time. Aside from the simple desire to be different from the Latins, there are some real cultural differences causing valid reasons for Greek Catholic priests to be married - for example, the tradition of clerical families where priests’s sons become priests for hundreds of years - and also a much stronger sense of the quasi-sacerdotal nature of the biological father as spiritual leader of the family, a fact unfortunately neglected in the West (where, not incidentally, men shave their beards, the symbol of their natural priesthood).

And, today when the authenticity of the Eastern Rites is challenged by the constant pressure of Latinization, the ordination of married men is an affirmation of our authenticity and the dignity of our rite. It would be horribly inopportune to try to force clerical celibacy on the Eastern churches now, less than a hundred years after such a tactic was used by the American Roman bishops as an underhanded way to trick the Vatican into suppressing the Byzantine rites altogether (I’m referring to the mandate procured by Archbishop Ireland, which unforeseen by the Pope ended up removing the faculties of all Byzantine Catholic priests).

 

[Vico]

Byzantine married presbyterate allowed by special norms or individual dispensation of the Holy See.

Byzantine Catholic Church USA particular law (1999):

Canon 758 §3
§1. Married men, after completion of the formation prescribed by law, can be admitted to the order of deacon
§2. Concerning the admission of married men to the order of the presbyterate, the special norms issued by the Apostolic See are to be observed, unless dispensations are granted by the same See in individual cases.

patronagechurch.com/HTML/Particular%20Law.html

CCEO Canon 758

1. To be ordained licitly the following are required:
   (1) chrismation with holy myron;
   (2) both the morals and the physical and psychological qualities in harmony with receiving a sacred order;
   (3) the age prescribed by law;
   (4) the required knowledge;
   (5) reception of the lower orders according to the norm of particular law of each Church sui iuris;
   (6) observation of the interstices prescribed by particular law.
2. It is furthermore required that the candidate not be impeded according to the norm of can. 762.
3. The particular law of each Church sui iuris or special norms established by the Apostolic See are to be followed in admitting married men to sacred orders.

 

[Hesychios]

Yes. The laxity and decadence of the Church in the Dark Ages was notorious; hence the reform.

It’s pretty clear that the call for universal celibacy spread from synod to synod in the west over many centuries, but it was hard to enforce, which is why the same synods called for mandatory celibacy more than once in local councils. This to me is evidence of the longstanding tradition of celibacy being an option in the western reaches of the church from mission days, the priests had wives and the communities they served were comfortable about it because their local padres were always usually married.

Calling that decadence is not fair, it was the norm and not in itself a bad practice.

But I think that this is no longer an “eastern” thread, it has turned into a debate on celibacy in the west and the circumstances around that, so it should be moved or closed.

 

[RCconvert7]

But I think that this is no longer an “eastern” thread, it has turned into a debate on celibacy in the west and the circumstances around that, so it should be moved or closed.

OK… Getting back on track: Here’s another Eastern Catholicism question:

Do the Eastern Catholic churches teach the Jesus Prayer? I have heard that Orthodox will not guide non-Orthodox in this devotion. Is this a part of the Eastern Catholic tradition? Also, are there Eastern Catholic monasteries, or only parishes?

And in regard to my last question: I’m hearing that Eastern Catholic priests in the USA are required to obey priestly celibacy, while those in their home countries are not. Is that correct?

 

[RCconvert7]

Hesychios,

What is that Chinese script in your signature line?

 

[Hesychios]

Hesychios,

What is that Chinese script in your signature line?

The top, shorter line indicates that I am Orthodox, the lower longer line is the doxology.

 

[Hesychios]

I’m hearing that Eastern Catholic priests in the USA are required to obey priestly celibacy, while those in their home countries are not. Is that correct?

No longer true, except that there are a couple of EC churches that have adopted mandatory celibacy, so for them it would be the case everywhere.

Initially, the See at Rome banned married clergy for eastern rite priests in the USA in 1907. That did not stick for some reason (possibly because of an ongoing schism that continued to slowly spread among Byzantine rite eastern Catholics until the Bolshevik revolution in Russia). There continued to be married priests serving in the USA.

In 1929 the Bull Cum Data Fuerit was issued, which was enforced much more strictly, possibly because the Byzantine rite Catholics now had their own bishops who were expected to enforce it. It is also the case that the Russian Metropolia was not an as attractive alternative by this time, due to the political turmoil in the Russian church.

I am told that Cum Data Fuerit has lapsed, but I have not read the text so I am unfamiliar with the details. It would be very interesting if some knowledgable EC would post the text of that decree here.

The bottom line is the See at Rome no longer demands compliance with Cum Data Fuerit.

 

[Cecilianus]

OK… Getting back on track: Here’s another Eastern Catholicism question:

Do the Eastern Catholic churches teach the Jesus Prayer?

Yes; it takes the same place in our spirituality that the Rosary does in yours.

Also, are there Eastern Catholic monasteries, or only parishes?

Yes, though I don’t know where since most of the information I could find on them was written in Ukrainian. There is a Ukrainian skete in Michigan, as well as Ukrainian and Ruthenian monasteries and Ukrainian, Ruthenian, and Romanian convents in the United States. The Maronites also have a monastery in Petersham, Massachusets; there are many more monasteries and sketes in Canada and the East. Someone else might be able to tell you more.

And in regard to my last question: I’m hearing that Eastern Catholic priests in the USA are required to obey priestly celibacy, while those in their home countries are not. Is that correct?

This was required by the Vatican in 1907 upon the request of Archbishop Ireland of St. Paul who wanted to stamp out Eastern Catholicism in the United States; his reasoning to the Vatican was that the Roman faithful would be confused by seeing married priests. (All of the Eastern Catholic priests in the United States were married at the time, so it gave the Latin bishops an excuse to impose Roman clergy on the Eastern parishes and force them to latinize - the result was the Ruthenian exodus to Orthodoxy. Most Ruthenians including my parish came back when the Vatican rescinded the order - I don’t know when this was - and both the Ruthenian and Ukrainian Catholic churches have some married clergy today.)

 

[Vico]

No longer true, except that there are a couple of EC churches that have adopted mandatory celibacy, so for them it would be the case everywhere.

Initially, the See at Rome banned married clergy for eastern rite priests in the USA in 1907. That did not stick for some reason (possibly because of an ongoing schism that continued to slowly spread among Byzantine rite eastern Catholics until the Bolshevik revolution in Russia). There continued to be married priests serving in the USA.

In 1929 the Bull Cum Data Fuerit was issued, which was enforced much more strictly, possibly because the Byzantine rite Catholics now had their own bishops who were expected to enforce it. It is also the case that the Russian Metropolia was not an as attractive alternative by this time, due to the political turmoil in the Russian church.

I am told that Cum Data Fuerit has lapsed, but I have not read the text so I am unfamiliar with the details. It would be very interesting if some knowledgable EC would post the text of that decree here.

The bottom line is the See at Rome no longer demands compliance with Cum Data Fuerit.

According to Sacred Oriental Congregation, Prot. No. 572-30, Rome, July 23, 1934, that it was the rule (for marriage of priests) since 1890, and that the 1596 agreement (Union of Brest) was “to recognize and guarantee the ritual traditions of the Ruthenians”.

“that Greek Ruthenian priests who desire to betake themselves to the United States of America and to remain there must be celibates.”

You can read that here: stlouis.byzcath.org/links.htm

Below is a decree referring to Cum Data Fuerit from 1940, from AAS, and the second decree was issued to allow Polish Latin priests transfer to the Ruthenian Catholic Church. Note the additional decade term: “mutatis vel additis, illud ad aliud decennium confirmare statuit.” (Text in next post).

 

[Vico]

SACRA CONGREGATIO PRO ECCLESIA ORIENTALI

i
DECRETUM
PRO SPIRITUALI ADMINISTRATIONE ORDINARIATUUM GRAECO-RUTHENORUM IN
FOEDERATIS CIVITATIBUS AMERICAE SEPTEMTRIONALIS.

Per Decretum « Cum data fuerit », die 1 m. Martii a. 1929, a S. Congregatione pro Ecclesia Orientali datum, spirituali administrationi Ordinariatuum G-raeco-Ruthenorum in Foederatis Civitatibus Americae Septemtrionalis provisum fuit ad decennium. Cum vero, omnibus perspectis, decennali experientia compertum sit huiusmodi decretum vitae religiosae fidelium illarum regionum valde profuisse, S. haec Congregatio, praehabitis votis Excmorum P. D. Hamleti Ioannis Cicognani, Archiepiscopi tit. Laodicensis in Phrygia, in iisdem Foederatis Americae Septemtrionalis Civitatibus Delegati Apostolici, P. D. Basilii Takacs, Episcopi tit. Zeliteni ac Apostolici Exarchae pro Ruthenis e Podcarpathia, nec non P. D. Constantini Bohacewskyj, Episcopi tit. Amiseni ac Apostolici Exarchae pro Ruthenis e Galitia, paucis, quae sequuntur, mutatis vel additis, illud ad aliud decennium confirmare statuit.

Art. 15. - Omnes rectores paroeciarum et missionum graeco-ruthenarum in Foederatis Civitatibus nominantur per Decretum proprii Ordinarii graeco-rutheni ritus, excluso quovis laicorum interventu. Iidem amovibiles sunt (ad nutum Ordinariorum, graeco-rutheni ritus. Amoveri autem non poterunt alisque causis gravibus et iustis).

Art. 39. - (Matrimonia tum inter fideles graeco-ruthenos, tum inter
fideles mixti ritus, servata forma decreti « Ne temere » contrahi debent, ac proinde in ritu mulieris a parocho mulieris benedicenda sunt). Quod si iusta causa adsit, poterunt nuptiae celebrari in ritu viri, de iudicio et de consensu Ordinarii loci.

Quae omnia, in Audientia diei 23 mensis Novembris a. 1910, referente infrascripto Cardinali a secretis, Ssmus D. N. Pius div. Prov. Pp. XII probavit ac rata habuit, simul iubens per Decretum S. C. pro Ecclesia Orientali publici iuris fieri.

Contrariis quibuslibet minime obfuturis.

Datum Romae, ex Aedibus S. Congregationis pro Ecclesia Orientali, die 23 mensis Novembris a. 1940.

E. Card. TISSERANT, a Secretis.
L. © S.
I. Cesarmi, Adsessor.

ii
DECRETUM
FACULTAS CONCEDENDI TRANSITUM AD ALIUM RITUM DEINCEPS UNI S. SEDI RESERVATUR.

Quo firmior teneatur disciplina de cuiusvis fidelis ad nativum ritum pertinentia, Ssmus D. N. Pius div. Prov. Pp. XII, in Audientia diei 23 mensis Novembris anno 1940, referente infrascripto Cardinali a secretis, tatuere dignatus est facultatem transeundi ab uno ad alium ritum a S. Sede tantum esse concedendam.

Cessat igitur facultas qua fruebantur Nuntii ac Delegati Apostolici ex Decreto « Nemini licere », die 6 mensis Decembris, anno 1928 dato (Cfr. A. A. S., 1928, p. 416), atque huic S. Congregationi directe reservatur iudicium de iis omnibus quae referuntur ad transitum ab uno ad alium ritum, sive de clericis sive de fidelibus agatur.

Contrariis quibuslibet minime obfuturis.

Datum Romae, ex Aedibus S. Congregationis pro Ecclesia Orientali, die 23 mensis Novembris anno 1940.

L. © S.
E. Card. TISSERANT, a Secretis.
I. Cesarmi, Adsessor.

 

[RCconvert7]

Yes; it takes the same place in our spirituality that the Rosary does in yours.)

having prayed both, I find the Jesus Prayer to be so much different than the Rosary, although, when one places one’s concentration on the Holy Names within the Rosary prayers, it can feel very much like the Jesus Prayer. It is the sheer number of different prayers and meditations involved in the Rosary that throws me off… And, it seems, people keep adding to them… The Fatima Prayer, the Pro-Life prayer, and others, not to mention the addition of the Luminous Mysteries. Not that any of those things are bad, but it is the simplicity of the prayer that draws me to the Jesus Prayer.

Books by Orthodox monks that I’ve read (modern ones) seem to imply that diving into the practice if one is not Orthodox is dangerous somehow.

 

[RCconvert7]

Would an Eastern Catholic be willing to teach the Jesus Prayer to a Latin Rite Catholic?

 

[countertenor]

but celibacy is a charism of the priest in the Latin Church

It is a charism for many, and nothing more than an imposition for others. Celibacy has nothing to do with the priesthood except when people make it have something to do with it.

 

[countertenor]

Would an Eastern Catholic be willing to teach the Jesus Prayer to a Latin Rite Catholic?

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

[Cecilianus]

Would an Eastern Catholic be willing to teach the Jesus Prayer to a Latin Rite Catholic?

There is no one right way to do it - there has been much variation at least within Orthodoxy even regarding the words of the prayer. Nonetheless, what one might think of as a standard form for praying it has developed. It is usually prayed in multiples of either 33 or 50, keeping track with a prayer rope or chotka (like a rosary made from woolen knots with wooden beads only every ten knots - you can buy one from an Orthodox or Eastern Catholic bookstore, or have someone in a Byzantine Catholic parish make one for you). It is usually prefaced by prayers of some sort - a Trisagion (“Holy God, Holy and Mighty, Holy and Immortal, have mercy on us” repeated three times followed by a Glory Be), an Our Father, a prayer to Our Lady (like “More honored than the Cherubim, and in glory far beyond compare than the Seraphim, who without spot gave birth to God the Word, truly the Theotokos do we magnify”) and the prayer “Most-Holy Trinity have mercy on us, O Lord cleanse us of our sins, O Master pardon our transgressions, O Holy One come to us and heal our infirmities for Your name’s sake”, and maybe a Psalm or two. This is something like what I do; you can also find a good Rule for beginners (the Rule I gave you would be for people like me who are not ready to become beginners yet) at byzcath.org/index.php/resources-mainmenu-63/a-rule-of-prayer/2706. It really doesn’t matter what prayers you preface your rule with, or even if you use the same ones each time.

On the wooden beads of the chotka (every 10 prayers) it is traditional to make a full prostration (all the way to the floor - either just bending over really far and touching the floor with your hands or really going all the way to your knees) and a minor prostration (bending your head) on the other Jesus Prayers. While these customs can certainly be useful as a penitential practice, they are not necessary and can detract from the simplicity of the prayer at first. The same is true with the beautiful custom of crossing oneself while saying the prayer (touching the head while saying “Lord Jesus Christ”, since touching one’s head honors our God who rules us as the mind rules the body, and Who is Spirit as our soul is, then touching our belly while we say “Son of God” in honor of the Incarnation, then touching our right (not left) shoulder as we say “have mercy on me” because grace flows from the right hand of God, and then our left shoulder as we say “a sinner” because we are wretched and wretchedness is what Western culture historically has associated with anything left-handed; going right to left also signifies that Christ preached first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles).

Orthodox monks also practice breathing exercises to concentrate their devotion on their heart. You would have to have a monk explain that to you since I am not a hesychast and would find such a practice personally more harmful (given the possibility of prelest or spiritual delusion) than useful. This is probably what Orthodox writers who caution against non-Orthodox praying the Jesus Prayer are probably the most worried about, since without proper spiritual direction it could become a kind of yoga or technique to create the illusion of spiritual progress, and also open up the soul to unhealthy spiritual influences. (Many Orthodox also regard Catholicism as a pure heresy and Catholic sacraments as invalid, and Catholics as wishy-washy dabblers in pop spirituality whenever they get interested in the East. In reality, to be truly and fully Orthodox is to be in communion with Peter, the “Seal of Orthodoxy” as a Russian Akathist calls him, and of course we really do possess the sacramental graces needed to prepare us for mental prayer. Eastern Catholics use the term “Orthodox” and “Orthodoxy” no less than our separated brethren, and unlike someone who knowingly and willingly rejects the teachings of and communion with Rome the term is applied to us with absolute accuracy without reservation.)

 

[RCconvert7]

I’d like to probe deeper into this Jesus Prayer thing, but I don’t want to change the direction of the current thread. I’ll start a new thread on the Eastern Catholicism board and ask more questions.

 

[Peter_J]

When Latin Catholics defend celibacy in the priesthood they often cite that the meaning of the priesthood is alter christus- another Christ. Their reasoning is that by giving up a family and the marital act they are suffering just as Christ instructs them to. What is the eastern response to this?

I think it would be something like “Well what about Eastern Catholics? They have married priests.”