Eastern Catholics and Purgatory

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I really love how non-Eastern Catholics love to assert that they know more about Eastern Catholicism than Eastern Catholics.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I really love how non-Eastern Catholics love to assert that they know more about Eastern Catholicism than Eastern Catholics.
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Really? And I love those who are originally not Eastern Catholic journey east and then appear to know more than the EC patriarchs and bishops.
Have you read what His Grace John Elya, bishop-emeritus of the Eparchy of Newton, has said:
When we declared our union with Rome – in consistency with Apostolic tradition interrupted somehow by historical circumstances – we accepted the Catholic faith in its entirety. We do recognize the authority of the Pope of Rome, including universal jurisdiction and infallibility for whatever concerns faith and morals. It is true that the Western Theologians themselves have their own debates concerning these points; so we should not be “more papist that the Pope;” but Catholic is Catholic and truth is truth. We cannot pose as “Orthodox united to Rome” only for what suits us. I do mean it when we pray every day, at the Divine Liturgy, for “unity of faith and the communion of the Holy Spirit.”
There is no ‘Eastern truth’ vs ‘Western truth’. Truth is one. It may be articulated according to various cultural expressions, but truth is super-cultural. Truth should not be restricted by “party line” positions. We should accept or reject ideas for their worth and not for an artificial attachment to a given “identity.” The Church teaches truth. **If something is true, it would be absurd **to say “Oh, we don’t believe that in the East.” This seems to be where we get short-circuited in ecumenical “dialogue.” All too frequently, such “dialogue” seems to presuppose a relativism where you speak “your truth” and I’ll speak “my truth” and we’ll just leave it at that. A sort of ecumenical schizophrenia.
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source:melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-john/how-do-the-popes-encyclicals-and-teachings-impact-on-the-melkites
 
ConstantineTG said:
I really love how non-Eastern Catholics love to assert that they know more about Eastern Catholicism than Eastern Catholics.
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Being an Eastern Catholic doesn’t give you the right to go around making absurd claims and expecting people to take them seriously.
 
griego_catolico said:
Really? And I love those who are originally not Eastern Catholic journey east and then appear to know more than the EC patriarchs and bishops.
Have you read what His Grace John Elya, bishop-emeritus of the Eparchy of Newton, has said:

source:melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-john/how-do-the-popes-encyclicals-and-teachings-impact-on-the-melkites
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So being not originally Eastern Catholic devoids me of any chance of learning what Eastern Catholicism is about? I can show you a bunch of cradles who doesn’t even know what Eastern Catholicism is.
 
devoutchristian said:
Being an Eastern Catholic doesn’t give you the right to go around making absurd claims and expecting people to take them seriously.
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It is not absurd, that is the truth. Our faith is in our Liturgy. You don’t find Purgatory there, it is not part of our faith.
 
ConstantineTG said:
It is not absurd, that is the truth. Our faith is in our Liturgy. You don’t find Purgatory there, it is not part of our faith.
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By that logic Eastern Catholics don’t have to believe in the double procession of the Holy Spirit either.
 
devoutchristian said:
Eastern Catholics are, like everyone else, bound to accept the infallible teachings of the Catholic Church.
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This is a simplistic claim to such a complex issue. So no, it is not as simple as that. We have our own traditions to adhere to and we are, time and again, asked to adhere to it faithfully. The Creed sans-Filioque is the original Creed and it is not by any stretch of the imagination heretical. So why should we not be allowed to hold on to our belief which is non-heretical? Why do we have to change it? The Pope has already spoken, we do not add anything to the Creed, we keep it from the original Greek text.

And before you start pounding away more about the Double Procession, read this: bible.cc/john/15-26.htm
 
ConstantineTG said:
The Creed sans-Filioque is the original Creed and it is not by any stretch of the imagination heretical. So why should we not be allowed to hold on to our belief which is non-heretical? Why do we have to change it? The Pope has already spoken, we do not add anything to the Creed, we keep it from the original Greek text.
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The original creed didn’t say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone.
 
devoutchristian said:
The original creed didn’t say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone.
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The Nicene-Constantinopolian Creed of 381 does. Read through all the previous threads about the Filioque on this sub-forum. I believe the consensus has been that the Holy Spirit proceeds thorugh and not from the Son, as scripture states the Holy Spirit proceeds only from the Father.

This is the most recent thread regarding this discussion: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=644651

Let’s keep this thread focused on the interesting purgatory discussion.

God Bless 🙂
 
devoutchristian said:
The original creed didn’t say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone.
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Of course it does. We’re talking about the Nicene Creed here. The Apostle’s Creed doesn’t make any mention of the Holy Spirit’s procession.
 
1.—Since there is a quarrel between the Romans and Greeks about the procession of the Holy Spirit, which greatly impede unity really for no other reason than that we do not wish to understand one another—we ask that we should not be compelled to any other creed but that we should remain with that which was handed down to us in the Holy Scriptures, in the Gospel, and in the writings of the holy Greek Doctors, that is, that the Holy Spirit proceeds, not from two sources and not by a double procession, but from one origin, from the Father through the Son.

From our Union of Brest.

It is very unseemly to try and tell us Eastern Catholics what we believe. Read our liturgies if you are interested in learning what we truly believe. Our faith is not defined by canons but by what has been handed down through the centuries.
 
devoutchristian said:
By that logic Eastern Catholics don’t have to believe in the double procession of the Holy Spirit either.
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Considering that a double procession from two sources or principles was rejected by medieval Latin theologians, like Aquinas, and at all of the so-called union councils, I should hope not, as those who believed in such a thing would be believing in something so heretical that it was rejected universally by both sides.
 
Cavaradossi said:
Considering that a double procession from two sources or principles was rejected by medieval Latin theologians, like Aquinas, and at all of the so-called union councils, I should hope not, as those who believed in such a thing would be believing in something so heretical that it was rejected universally by both sides.
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I didn’t say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from two sources or principles. All I said was that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son.
 
devoutchristian said:
I didn’t say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from two sources or principles. All I said was that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son.
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And all we’re saying is that this is wrong from the faith professed by the Fathers of the first 3 Ecumenical Councils.
 
All I wanted was a simple answer… :sad_yes:
The thread basically became a huge debate.
:slapfight::crutches::stretcher:
 
devoutchristian said:
Well you should stop since you’ve been proven wrong.
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By who? And no, I am not. Double procession was never taught by the Church Fathers and the Eastern Church has been consistent about this from day 1 until today. Nobody has condemned our faith has heretical, so no one has proven me wrong.
 
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