Eastern Novus Ordo?

[dvdjs]

Boy I think Malphono was making some rather good points…even though certain people around here dont like to hear the truth.

Leaving aside Malphono, what, in general, are good points?

A strong expression of an opinion that another reader also favors? Droll ridicule of counter expressions? Unsupported insult against things and people that another posters may also not like? What is a good post?

How about: a post with verifiable facts and sound reasoning that arrives at a cogent conclusion? This posting conveys truth, which is not simply opinions that one happens to agree with.

Yes there are many do not like the truth. Some prefer to indulge comfortable opinions. Some are unwilling to do the heavy lifting to present facts and arguments that convey the truth. Or just think their experience and authority should suffice.

All of these postures makes ears ache for the truth.

 

[Cecilianus]

Honestly, I’m bewildered - I didn’t see anything insulting in Malphono’s post, and I AM Byzantine. He made some pretty good points that I was interested to hear.

 

[ciero]

Malphono: the parts spoken aloud in the Ruthenian liturgy are the same ones spoken aloud by the OCA parishes nearby. Except that the OCA priests are saying them in Slavonic.

Characterizing it as a Neolatinization is wrong; it’s documented to be ancient Kyivan praxis to say them audibly when the people are not singing prayers at the same time. One that some Ruthenian priests started using before V II. (I’ve seen documentation of this in print predating VII.)

If anything, the Roman OF is an Easternization in many ways.

Have any documentation for the “Ancient Kievian Usage”?

 

[ciero]

Leaving aside Malphono, what, in general, are good points?

A strong expression of an opinion that another reader also favors? Droll ridicule of counter expressions? Unsupported insult against things and people that another posters may also not like? What is a good post?

How about: a post with verifiable facts and sound reasoning that arrives at a cogent conclusion? This posting conveys truth, which is not simply opinions that one happens to agree with.

Yes there are many do not like the truth. Some prefer to indulge comfortable opinions. Some are unwilling to do the heavy lifting to present facts and arguments that convey the truth. Or just think their experience and authority should suffice.

All of these postures makes ears ache for the truth.

**Start with post 148.
**

 

[malphono]

Normally I wouldn’t resurrect an old thread, but I made an exception this time.

Well, I finally saw it. A broadcast of a Melkite DL (I’m actually not sure if it’s Melkite or Orthodox, but I presume the former) versus populum, and absent an iconostasis (not even the portable variety). Now, whether it took place in a non-Melkite church I don’t know (I missed the introduction, but from the oblong shape I would imagine not) but even so, “table altar” (and indeed it was clearly a table, albeit stone, but an ugly one in any case) was positioned in such a way that it could have been used ad orientem without a second thought. All they would have had to do was move the hideous flower pot that was sitting in front of it. Byzantine liturgy done that way just doesn’t cut the mustard, at least not to this non-Byzantine. And here I thought the Meklites were free of at least that particular taint. Guess not.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Normally I wouldn’t resurrect an old thread, but I made an exception this time.

Well, I finally saw it. A broadcast of a Melkite DL** (I’m actually not sure if it’s Melkite or Orthodox**, but I presume the former) versus populum, and absent an iconostasis (not even the portable variety). Now, whether it took place in a non-Melkite church I don’t know (I missed the introduction, but from the oblong shape I would imagine not) but even so, “table altar” (and indeed it was clearly a table, albeit stone, but an ugly one in any case) was positioned in such a way that it could have been used ad orientem without a second thought. All they would have had to do was move the hideous flower pot that was sitting in front of it. Byzantine liturgy done that way just doesn’t cut the mustard, at least not to this non-Byzantine. And here I thought the Meklites were free of at least that particular taint. Guess not.

Hmmm.

Where was this Liturgy at?

 

[malphono]

Hmmm.

Where was this Liturgy at?

As I said, I missed the intro, so other than that it was somewhere in Lebanon, I’m not sure. I’ve seen broadcasts of Melkite (and Orthodox) DLs before, and those were all were relatively normal. (Usually the Orthodox were more so, but I’m not even going there.) This one was anything but normal.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

As I said, I missed the intro, so other than that it was somewhere in Lebanon, I’m not sure. I’ve seen broadcasts of Melkite (and Orthodox) DLs before, and those were all were relatively normal. (Usually the Orthodox were more so, but I’m not even going there.) This one was anything but normal.

Okay, so this was a broadcast. Thanks.

It sounds very disturbing.