Eastern Orthodox fundamentalism/hyperdoxy

[Spyridon]

I’ve got to create a topic about this after what I saw a few days ago…

What in the world is going on with Eastern Orthodox on the internet being overrun by hyperdox fundamentalists? It’s getting totally out of control.

Go to any Eastern Orthodox video (ESPECIALLY ones dealing with Rome or ecumenism) and look at the VENOM these guys spit - these people are like, foaming at the mouth with a visceral hatred for the West, anything Latin or Roman, period.

We had a hyperdox fundie here on CAF (who was permabanned) recently - go to any EO website and you will see these hyperdox types as well.

I’m aware that this is mainly an internet phenomena, and I’m also aware that we Roman Catholics have our own version of hyperdox fundies - Rad Trads.

However, these rad trads do not show up on literally EVERY SINGLE comment section on EVERY website online! It is outrageous!

I cannot view a single EO YT video and read the comments without being assaulted by the vile words of these people…

The most popular EO forum in English has several of these types who ruin every thread and make it so I don’t even want to visit that website anymore.

What is going on???

Don’t they realize they are being overcome by the pharisaical spirit?

An example:

This fella named “Чварков Ђорђе” left this comment:

“This fat priest is a theological monster, if Orthodox Church kept it’s canons, this fat guy would be removed from the Church for kissing heretic’s (pope’s) hand.”

He said that ABOUT AN EO Bishop! Bishop Kalistos Ware even! One of the greatest truly Orthodox Christians, and IMO a living Saint!

This demon inspired man continues on:

“+ClanLcps What better rebuttals i need than the fact that half of US Roman-catholic priests in USA die of HIV.”

" +ClanLcps Michael Voris revealed it, he is your guy."

Interesting, an EO hyperdox getting “information” from a RC Rad Trad…

He goes on to say things which are too vile to repeat here - he starts calling the Pope a “f–got,” saying the Pope is “a modernist globalist piece of ----,” saying Rome is a “Babylon Whore,” and uttering a multitude of blasphemous vulgarities which would make Gunnery Sergeant Hartman blush. This could be chalked up to one lunatic’s mad ramblings - but I’ve seen it over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

Why is this problem endemic to Eastern Orthodox presence on the English speaking part of the internet?

Is it like this in Russian and Greek speaking corners of the net as well?

The only other group of “Christians” who I see even come close to the level of burning hatred of these people are hardcore fundamentalist Protestants.

 

[Maximilian75]

There will always be fundamentalists- That’s just human nature. Sometimes all we can do is pray.

 

[Spyridon]

There will always be fundamentalists- That’s just human nature. Sometimes all we can do is pray.

I know my friend.

But my wondering is this:

In the “normal” internet population of religious people, you may run into a fundamentalist type 1 out of every 50 times.

However, in Eastern Orthodox internet populations, it’s like 1 out of 10 or even 1 out of 5.

Why are these people so attracted to Holy Orthodoxy, and why is their presence so thick on the internet?

I’m not exaggerating - go on YouTube, go to literally any Eastern Orthodox video with more than 100 comments, and even if the video has NOTHING to do with Rome or Catholicism, you will inevitably see the hyperdox start bashing “Romish papalist heretics…”

 

[Constantin]

Yeah, I also observed that. Also, I have encountered this in real life which is really crazy. You would not believe it. But I agree, there may be certain trad Catholic groups which are at least equally insane. I would recommend not to spend too much time on those people. Nothing good ever comes from it.

 

[Maximilian75]

Maybe because that’s the prevalent, if unspoken attitude among EO? I really don’t know.

 

[Spyridon]

Maybe because that’s the prevalent, if unspoken attitude among EO? I really don’t know.

Vladimir Solovyov did say anti-Catholicism was built into the institutional Eastern Orthodox Church -

But some EO are very friendly with Catholics and honestly long for reunion.

His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew I, who is the “first among equals” and chief Primate of the entire EO Church, is a great friend of Catholicism and Pope Francis - he was a close friend of St. John Paul the Great as well.

In general, it seems the Greek and Middle Eastern Orthodox are much more reasonable and charitable than the Slavic Orthodox - although there are hyperdox among them as well.

But these hyperdox types even accuse him of being a modernist and a heretic -

An entire monastery on the Holy Mount Athos fell to this hyperdox fundamentalism - the disobedient “monks” of Esphigmenou still to this day are barricaded in their dwellings and refuse to even pray for Patriarch Bartholomew because he’s a “ecumenist heretic” in their not so humble opinion.

 

[Augustinian]

The internet has a way of bringing out an extremist tone in people.

In real life, although they have little in common with me, our EO friends have always been cordial and we agree to disagree. Ditto, BTW, for our Baptist friends and others of an evangelical bent.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

As long as the Romanian Orthodox still let me and half my parish in for their fish fries and Romanian Festivals (awesome chicken paprikash and wine bar), I’m not going to let a few crazy Internet trolls bug me.

 

[Spyridon]

But here’s another thing.

In Catholicism, the “rad trad” movement exists almost exclusively among either the laity, or clerics who have severed themselves from the Church.

Whereas in Orthodoxy, hyperdoxy extends to the highest echelons of the hierarchy. Greek Metropolitans, Andrew of Dryinoupolis, Pogoniani and Konitsa and Seraphim of Piraeus and Faliro wrote a scathing and hate filled screed to the Pope - these two are Metropolitans! The only position higher than Metropolitan in Orthodoxy is Patriarch.

So we have TWO Metropolitans releasing a hyperdox manifesto publicly.

And some of the Patriarchs even have made comments which are not so explicitly hyperdox, but border on fundamentalist drivel…

If all Eastern Orthodox would emulate His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew, our Churches would be in full communion with each other…

But instead, hoardes of them take the lead of Metropolitans Seraphim and Andrew, and they despise Patriarch Bartholomew.

 

[Constantin]

But this is not surprising: Once you give up unity (the See of Peter), you just get ever more division and infighting. It’s the natural consequence.

 

[Maximilian75]

Precisely. We see this in Lutheranism and Anglicanism/Episcopalianism, especially with wopriests and the gender of God- you end up with liberals and conservatives. Division leads to more division.

 

[Mary888]

This is not an explanation, but many of the ones I tried to talk to from US are converts from diverse neo-protestant sects including Mormons. They learn a lot of stuff in catechism, many of which I will probably never have the capacity to memorize.I was admonished for it (justly so I must admit yet I did not receive a revelation from hurry and learn all that stuff after being floored by them). One told me that what is wrong with the Catholic Church is that it’s being founded by Latins who are proud people (and somehow incapable of sanctity) and when I asked what about Latin saints (Constantine, Elena and many others) they had to say those are acceptable because they are before the Schism but they did not retrieve the absurdity that they said about Latin people. I am Romanian, I am partially Latin, I doubt I will ever be a saint, it’s true our church is eccumenical and there are places here where Orthodox and Catholic bishops serve together. Tere is some nationalist proud poetry about us being Latin and Orthodox and thus somewhat special and I consider that out of touch also. We have many local saints who are Latin and were called Romans by the French for example. Old time saints. I was just too scared to argue with that guy about Latin saints and I am still sorry for not telling ““your protestantism shows in your attitude””. Or maybe I should not be sorry. This may have triggered another row about how I don’t know exactly which protestant heresy was condemned at which synod.
The Orthodox diaspora, especially in Russian church is extremely virulent about acrivy and I do not know how is that ok since they emmigrated from the communist regime while others remain and yes not all priests and bishops managed to not make compromises but how does this make the diaspora more worthy and more orthodox I do not know. Not judging anyone here and I am angry at the compromises that have been made but I am unconvinced of their arguments.
So the energy of the new American converts fueled in many years of protestantism and the certainty of the orthodox diaspora that they preserved their faith pure => this that you present in your post.
I also thought that they should meet with the Rad Trad in Catholicism and both sides argue in this large hall somewhere and someone records them. Then they have to watch the recording and see they speak word by word similarly and be asked why do they argue.
Rad Trads are angry at Vatican II and amongst the claims is also that EO is no longer called schismatic and the Ultra Orthodox are angry at everything the Eccumenical Patriarchy has done for decades and the Synod in Crete because of the Catholic closeness that they call ïnfluence"". The two sides should meet they have a lot in common and logically they have already dissolved the Schism because they are so similar it’s obvious.

 

[Spyridon]

doubt I will ever be a saint

You seem pretty saintly to me @Mary888.

The attitude which you consistently exhibit is the attitude of a true Orthodox Christian - level headed, patient, humble, charitable. This is the attitude of all the Eastern Orthodox Christians who I have met in person as well.

I’ve fortunately never had the displeasure of meeting a hyperdox fundie type in person - only online.

Thanks for your well thought out (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Personally, I think it’s related to nationalistic nature of Eastern Orthodoxy coupled with deep seated inferiority complex of Russians and some other eastern/south Eastern Europeans.

ETA: also the Russian governments influence on the Russian church and their desire to sow division between east and west to increase their influence in th region

 

[Spyridon]

related to nationalistic nature of Eastern Orthodoxy

I don’t think I would use the term “nationalistic nature” because that implies phyletism is intrinsic to Eastern Orthodoxy… “Nationalistic tendencies” would be better.

But I think the point you made is certainly a factor, to a degree.

But it doesn’t explain why a lot of these internet hyperdox fundie types are the way they are or why they are so ubiquitous within EO online circles - many of these people are American born and raised converts to Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

By nature I meant how there’s a Greek Orthodox, Russian, etc.

 

[Spyridon]

nature I meant how there’s a Greek Orthodox,

Roger.

I’ve known many Orthodox who oppose that paradigm because of that - they always refer to themselves simply as “Orthodox Christians” or “Orthodox Catholics” because they don’t like the common misconception people hold - “oh, isn’t that Church just for Greeks or Russians?” - it doesn’t help that these misconceptions are propagaged by the media and hollywood - think of “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” where the guy after he’s been baptized, instead of saying “now I am Christian,” he says “now I’m Greek!”

 

[RyanBlack]

We Catholics have that too. There’s a Melkite Catholic Church, an Armenian Catholic Church, a Coptic Catholic Church, an Eritrean Catholic Church, an Ethiopian Catholic Church, a Ruthenian Catholic Church, a Romanian Catholic Church, a Ukrainian Catholic Church, and so on.

 

[Spyridon]

Yes, but for the most part Eritrean Catholics, for example, identify as Catholic or Eastern Catholic first, and belonging to the Eritrean Catholic Church second.

Some Eastern Orthodox take this to an unhealthy level of phyletism - they identify specifically as, for example, Russian Orthodox - some Russian Orthodox do this to the point where they won’t attend a Liturgy at a Greek Orthodox Church because they think they are doing things in a heterodox manner.

 

[Augustinian]

“oh, isn’t that Church just for Greeks or Russians?”

That’s just shows the commenter to be misinformed. Most Russian Orthodox aren’t Russian at all- and most Greek Catholics are in no ways Hellenic.