Eastern Orthodox influencing Lutherans?

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JonNC said:
By the statement of the LCMS that I posted it obviously does not mean Catholics are condemned
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But, there ARE LCMS statements that claim Catholics to be in apostasy…which you keep ignoring purposefully! Tell us, is there a difference between apostasy and being condemned?
 
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pablope said:
well…again…taking out of context this papal bull…and applying for yourself…and you fuel your hatred for the pope…going on to use it as the basis to call him the very anti-Christ in your confessional statement.
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Here’s the context:
“…EVERY HUMAN CREATURE…”
  1. It isn’t my confessional statement.
  2. You don’t know me. I’ve made no statement here ever that I hate any pope. In fact, I’ve often stated honest and sincere admiration and affection for both Pope John Paul II, and Pope Benedict. Hence, you have no grounds for such a slander
 
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That’s better than the other way around, Lutherans influencing Orthodox…
 
JonNC said:
On the old CAF, we were members, not participants as an ecumenical privilege
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You are definitely a member in my mind! You have more pedigree on this site than me and you carry yourself very well! I just hoped you would be more fair sometimes in our discourses.
 
JonNC said:
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pablope:
From this statement…We reject as apostasy from the Christian religion…when the statement says we are in apostasy…does it not mea we are condemned?
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By the statement of the LCMS that I posted it obviously does not mean Catholics are condemned.
On the other hand, Unam Sanctum seems pretty clear that Catholics don’t think we have a chance of salvation
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But there is the original confessional document…so the confessional document is not authoritative and the LCMS statement trumps the confessional document?
 
pablope said:
But there is the original confessional document…so the confessional document is not authoritative and the LCMS statement trumps the confessional document?
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Finally! I am not the only one…😅
 
JonNC said:
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pablope:
well…again…taking out of context this papal bull…and applying for yourself…and you fuel your hatred for the pope…going on to use it as the basis to call him the very anti-Christ in your confessional statement.
Click to expand...
Here’s the context:
“…EVERY HUMAN CREATURE…”
  1. It isn’t my confessional statement.
  2. You don’t know me. I’ve made no statement here ever that I hate any pope. In fact, I’ve often stated honest and sincere admiration and affection for both Pope John Paul II, and Pope Benedict. Hence, you have no grounds for such a slander
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I sincerely apologize Jon…“hate” was not the right word…and did not mean to slander you…

with the new system, I am still trying to figure out how to correct posts or edit them…
 
“JonNC said:
“pablope said:
well…again…taking out of context this papal bull…and applying for yourself…and you fuel your hatred for the pope…going on to use it as the basis to call him the very anti-Christ in your confessional statement.
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Here’s the context:
“…EVERY HUMAN CREATURE…”
  1. It isn’t my confessional statement.
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yeah…but you seem to have neglected the preceeding paragraphs…and focused on only one statement…and how can a papal bull written on 1302 in a conflict with the french monarch,apply to the Reformists and the LCMS?
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JonNC said:
That does not lessen the Synod’s concern for the false doctrine taught and confessed by these churches, but it does highlight the Synod’s recognition that wherever the “marks of the church” (the Gospel and Sacraments) are present—even where “mixed” with error—there the Christian church is present. Such a church is a heterodox church, that is, a church that teaches false doctrine.

Of course, personal salvation is not merely a matter of external membership in or association with any church organization or denomination (including the LCMS), but comes through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

All those who confess Jesus Christ as Savior are recognized as “Christians” by the Synod—only God can look into a person’s heart and see whether that person really believes. It is possible to have true and sincere faith in Jesus Christ even while having wrong or incomplete beliefs about other doctrinal issues.

This explains why former Synod President A.L. Barry called members of the Roman Catholic Church “our fellow Christians” in his statement Toward True Reconciliation, which at the same time identifies and laments the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

The great danger is that believing things contrary to God’s Word can obscure and perhaps even completely destroy belief in Jesus Christ as one’s Savior. We pray this will not happen to those who confess Jesus Christ as Savior and yet belong to heterodox church bodies, including fellow Christians in the Roman Catholic Church.
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I’m no theologian - by FAR, and I can admit that with no problems - but what I’ve highlighted and emphasized is less than flattering - as spoken about the RCC and as being spoken by the LCMS. They’re tarring the RCC and painting themselves in a pretty unflattering light. Wow.

So in this statement, he’s said that heterodox churches teach false doctrine, the Catholic church has false teachings, and that Catholics are Christians, but the LCMS prays to God that the Catholic belief in Jesus Christ isn’t destroyed by contrary/false teachings of the Church.

As far as I know, if you have no faith in Jesus Christ, you’re definitely not going to heaven. That’s pretty much the basic tenet of Christianity - to accept the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross as having been for our sins. At least, every Christian I know professes this. Maybe I’ve missed something here.

So this guy indeed seems to say that the Lutheran Church’s official position is they’ll pray for Catholics to not be condemned to hell when they lose faith in Jesus because of the false teachings of their church. (Again, I’m going off what I know - that turning your back on Jesus Christ is pretty much not getting you into heaven, and since the LCMS believes in sola fide - and says so right in this declaration - I’m thinking that’s the not-so-veiled implication here.)

Or did I miss something?

Color me in with @dochawk. Holy smokes. I really don’t think they’re warming to the RCC in any way.

Still bitter after all these years…
 
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pablope said:
yeah…but you seem to have neglected the preceeding paragraphs…and focused on only one statement…and how can a papal bull written on 1302 in a conflict with the french monarch,apply to the Reformists and the LCMS?
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But it doesn’t say just the French, or those Frenchmen not submitting to the pope. It says every human creature.
 
pablope said:
I sincerely apologize Jon…“hate” was not the right word…and did not mean to slander you…
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Your apology is warmly received and accepted.

I also must offer an apology to all reading this thread. I’ve been warned that the following post,
I’m not playing your little game, particularly following your snarky little post to the OP. You read what the LCMS has said, and you make your own determination.
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Which I directed at @AugustTherese was considered in some way impolite, a personal attack, or in another way, not complying with forum rules.
I apologize to AugustTherese specifically and others in general
 
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More division among those who follow their church rather than the Bible.
 
Pup7 said:
So in this statement, he’s said that heterodox churches teach false doctrine, the Catholic church has false teachings, and that Catholics are Christians, but the LCMS prays to God that the Catholic belief in Jesus Christ isn’t destroyed by contrary/false teachings of the Church.
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Again, does the Catholic Church anything different about NonCatholics? I’ve heard that refrain countless times here at CAF.
“Outside the Church there is no salvation.”
 
Since there seems to be much confusion on the Roman Catholic side, I’ll prepare a post to clearly explain the LCMS view, starting with the Lutheran Confessions, continuing through the Brief Statement and on through today. Please be patient — I’m not near civilization at the moment.

I hope that users here will accept the LCMS view when it is explained, and not accuse LCMS users of being disingenuous or foolish or “Anti-Catholic.” The false information about and vitriol toward Lutherans in this thread has been disheartening. I hope it ceases. You know something is up when JonNC receives his first infraction in — how many years? A decade plus?

God grant charity and patience to us all.
 
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