Eastern orthodoxy and birth control

[ChrisB103]

Thank you.

My cousin died last night. She was in her mid-40’s…

Prayers for the soul of your cousin and for your whole family.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

The focus of Othodox theology is on the couple and family. Hence, whether contraception is permissible depends on whether it will be beneficial or detrimental to the relationship.

The focus of Catholic theology is on the act of contracepting itself. Hence the couple’s situation is not taken into account, and contraception is a priori assumed to be detrimental.

In my opinion the Catholics have it backwards, but that’s me.

I don’t think this summary does justice to either the Orthodox position or the Catholic position.

… not the Orthodox position, because it implies that they don’t see “the act of contracepting itself” as having any moral significance, which is a distortion of the historic Orthodox position. The Orthodox are not consequentialists, as is implied by the statement, “whether contraception is permissible depends on whether it will be beneficial or detrimental to the relationship.”

… and not the Catholic position, because it does not undervalue or underemphasize the couple and family.

 

[Mickey]

The preist responded that it was officially the teaching of the church that birth control was sinful, but nearly all American Orthodox women use it anyway.

Sadly, that statement would hold true for Catholic women also.

 

[dvdjs]

Originally Posted by Allegra
The priest responded that it was officially the teaching of the church that birth control was sinful, but nearly all American Orthodox women use it anyway.

Sadly, that statement would hold true for Catholic women also.

Actually, that statement would hold for neither Orthodox nor Catholic women.

 

[Allegra]

When I see things like this being talked about, I sigh a deep sigh.

With so many really big issues and hard times upon us, I just can’t get into a discussion over birth control.

I have a cousin, right now, dying of pancreatic cancer. A step-father with Alzheimer’s and a blood clotting issue that needs surgical intervention. Another family member needing serious dental surgery, bills to be paid,

I could go on and on.

I just dont have the energy to go round and round over birth control.

And if Yeshua doesn’t get that, oh well…The He doesnt get how serious plate of serious issues face me and my family…

And birth control isnt one of those issues. Not by a long shot…

I’m sorry your family is suffering from so many problems that are consuming so much of your thoughts and energy. However, just because you are consumed with other matters at the moment, it doesn’t mean that the issue of birth control is unimportant or that others are foolish for caring about it. I think that a huge portion of the world’s problems stem directly and indirectly from people’s misunderstandings about sex and marriage.

 

[bilop]

ComeHome2Rome,

The media coverage of this topic was very poor. Tons of sources reported the event in the way you described, but the transcript of the event tells a different story. The Holy Father was reflecting on how a homosexual male prostitute using a condom with the intent of protecting sexual partners from STDs can be seen as a step in a moral direction. This is not a statement condoning the use of condoms, but merely a recognition that they can be used with good intentions. The reason a homosexual male is used in the example is to remove the issue of thwarting God-given fertility from the equation. It’s a nuanced example, but I hope this helps answer your question.

Using a condom for sexual acts where procreation is not possible b/c of the nature of the acts is not sinful. The acts themselves are, but not the condom use.

Any homosexual male who used a condom would not be committing an additional sin beyond the sex act itself.

God Bless

 

[Mickey]

Actually, that statement would hold for neither Orthodox nor Catholic women.

Sadly, I think it is likely that Catholic and Orthodox women of child bearing age may be using birth control in large numbers.

Eighty-nine percent of American adults say birth control is morally acceptable, according to a Gallup poll taken May 3 through May 6. Notably, 82 percent of Catholics are fine with birth control, the survey found.

 

[Tomdstone]

Actually, that statement would hold for neither Orthodox nor Catholic women.

I thought that a majority of American Catholic women used ABC? Do you disagree with these reports?

 

[Tomdstone]

What is the eastern orthodox position on birth control ?

I am not sure except that I think that in the past it was thought to be a sin. However, an Orthodox priest told me that after a couple has three children, they are allowed to talk to the priest about their economic situation and request some sort of an exception or variance from the general rule. I don’t know how official this is or whether it was only the opinion of one priest. Also, generally, I don’t think that many Orthodox see a big difference between the various natural or artificial means of restricitng birth, as long as they do not involve abortion.

 

[Marie5890]

I’m sorry your family is suffering from so many problems that are consuming so much of your thoughts and energy. However, just because you are consumed with other matters at the moment, it doesn’t mean that the issue of birth control is unimportant or that others are foolish for caring about it. I think that a huge portion of the world’s problems stem directly and indirectly from people’s misunderstandings about sex and marriage.

Thank you for your kindness.

I personally think a huge portion of our culture’s problems isnt due to misunderstanding about sex and marriage.

Rather it’s more due to a breaking of the 1st Commandment.

We have other gods that we worship, other than God.
We worship power, money, fame, politics, sports, competition, winning, heck even here in America, there is a faction of our culture that put the Constitution before God and the Gospel IMO.

Keep the 1st, the others will follow.

 

[Mickey]

I thought that a majority of American Catholic women used ABC? Do you disagree with these reports?

I suppose polls could be skewed in any way one might care to skew them. I know there is a poll by the Guttmacher Institute which claims that 98% of Catholic women use (or have used birth control). However, I’m quite certain that they are not polling the elderly. More importantly, they are not asking whether these women are practicing Catholics…in which case…if they are not meeting their Sunday obligation…they have excommunicated themselves. I suppose if one would poll all practicing Catholics (or Orthodox) who are devout and knowledgeable regarding the faith…those numbers would be very different.

I am guessing that this is what dvdjs is talking about…and now that I think about it…it is a good point.

 

[bilop]

Thank you for your kindness.

I personally think a huge portion of our culture’s problems isnt due to misunderstanding about sex and marriage.

Rather it’s more due to a breaking of the 1st Commandment.

We have other gods that we worship, other than God.
We worship power, money, fame, politics, sports, competition, winning, heck even here in America, there is a faction of our culture that put the Constitution before God and the Gospel IMO.

Keep the 1st, the others will follow.

You forgot “sex” on the list of false gods.

God Bless

 

[Schism_hater]

From my reading, the teaching of the Orthodox church on artificial birth control is not completely consistent or systematic. However, that is much preferable to me than the approach taken in the contemporary Roman Catholic church where it is officially a mortal sin and yet is practiced by a vast majority of practicing Roman Catholic couples. In my 25 years as a Roman Catholic, I can remember ABC being mentioned in a sermon maybe 5 times. Everybody knew that most of the married couples in the church were using it, including the pastors.

I prefer the messiness of Orthodoxy to the HUGE disconnect in RCatholicism between doctrine and practice.

 

[Mickey]

I prefer the messiness of Orthodoxy

I don’t know if “messiness” is an appropriate word. I do know that generally, ABC is not condoned by Holy Orthodoxy and abortifacients are forbidden.

But I am very comfortable with the fact that the issue is between the person and his/her spiritual father.

 

[Denise1957]

Do the Orthodox tend to have a lot of children? I know that large Roman Catholic families have been on the decline, in general, for awhile, but there still are couples with more than four children in various parishes that I’ve been to, but it varies. Some parishes have few children, and some have a lot.

 

[dvdjs]

Sadly, I think it is likely that Catholic and Orthodox women of child bearing age may be using birth control in large numbers.

Perhaps, but use by a large number of women of childbearing age does not mean that “nearly all American Orthodox women use it”. The latter comment makes no sense on its face.

Eighty-nine percent of American adults say birth control is morally acceptable, according to a Gallup poll taken May 3 through May 6. Notably, 82 percent of Catholics are fine with birth control, the survey found.

Perhaps the poll says something else. But if it asks about birth control, rather than artificial birth control, I would also consider it morally acceptable.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

ComeHome2Rome,

The media coverage of this topic was very poor. Tons of sources reported the event in the way you described, but the transcript of the event tells a different story. The Holy Father was reflecting on how a homosexual male prostitute using a condom with the intent of protecting sexual partners from STDs can be seen as a step in a moral direction. This is not a statement condoning the use of condoms, but merely a recognition that they can be used with good intentions. The reason a homosexual male is used in the example is to remove the issue of thwarting God-given fertility from the equation. It’s a nuanced example, but I hope this helps answer your question.

Totally helps, thank you! A shame the Catholic Radio Station annoucing it would have reported it in way that didn’t get across the meaning of what the Pope had intended.

 

[dvdjs]

I thought that a majority of American Catholic women used ABC? Do you disagree with these reports?

What reports?

I think it is important to be careful about and exacting about what is reported. Some studies are reported carelessly - perhaps by accident. But “use” is different than “used” or “have used”, etc. The distinction is important. It may be true that the vast majority of Christians have at some time in their lives told a lie. It would be highly misleading to report that the vast majority lie, let alone suggest that there is therefore a moral indifference to lying.

Similary, “women of child-bearing age” is different than “sexually active women of child-bearing age”, or “married women of child bearing age”, and all of these categories are far more restrictive than, simply, “women”. Considering the number of women outside of child bearing years, and those who are pregnant or trying to become pregnant, as well as those who are not sexually active, it is very unlikely that more third of all women “use” ABC. That is not “nearly all”. Reports with very high percentages probably just mean that women nearly all women who use artificial birth control report using artificial birth control.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Do the Orthodox tend to have a lot of children? I know that large Roman Catholic families have been on the decline, in general, for awhile, but there still are couples with more than four children in various parishes that I’ve been to, but it varies. Some parishes have few children, and some have a lot.

Not usually. Has a lot to do with the approximately 50% of the year that Orthodox Fast during which couple refrain from marital relations in addition to the pre-communion fasts once or more a week. Between all that abstaining and a woman’s natural cycle, not a lot of opportunity to get pregnant. Of course there are exceptions and I know a couple of Orthodox families with 5 to 9 children.

 

[dvdjs]

I suppose polls could be skewed in any way one might care to skew them. I know there is a poll by the Guttmacher Institute which claims that 98% of Catholic women use (or have used birth control). However, I’m quite certain that they are not polling the elderly. More importantly, they are not asking whether these women are practicing Catholics…in which case…if they are not meeting their Sunday obligation…they have excommunicated themselves. I suppose if one would poll all practicing Catholics (or Orthodox) who are devout and knowledgeable regarding the faith…those numbers would be very different.

I am guessing that this is what dvdjs is talking about…and now that I think about it…it is a good point.

Usually the studies are conducted and worded carefully. Usually. But press releases and reports are often sloppy and hyped. There is an effort to make every sinner into disingenuous hypocrite, rather than someone who occasionally misses the mark - a mark that they still, or will aim, for.