Eastern orthodoxy and birth control

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dvdjs said:
Similary, “women of child-bearing age” is different than “sexually active women of child-bearing age”, or “married women of child bearing age”, and all of these categories are far more restrictive than, simply, “women”. Considering the number of women outside of child bearing years, and those who are pregnant or trying to become pregnant, as well as those who are not sexually active, it is very unlikely that more third of all women “use” ABC. That is not “nearly all”. Reports with very high percentages probably just mean that women nearly all women who use artificial birth control report using artificial birth control.
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Huh? :confused:
 
Schism_hater said:
From my reading, the teaching of the Orthodox church on artificial birth control is not completely consistent or systematic. However, that is much preferable to me than the approach taken in the contemporary Roman Catholic church where it is officially a mortal sin and yet is practiced by a vast majority of practicing Roman Catholic couples. In my 25 years as a Roman Catholic, I can remember ABC being mentioned in a sermon maybe 5 times. Everybody knew that most of the married couples in the church were using it, including the pastors.

I prefer the messiness of Orthodoxy to the HUGE disconnect in RCatholicism between doctrine and practice.
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:rolleyes: “practiced by a vast majority of practicing Roman Catholic couples”. I am skeptical, but I am open to your proof.
 
dvdjs said:
:rolleyes: “practiced by a vast majority of practicing Roman Catholic couples”. I am skeptical, but I am open to your proof.
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I cannot prove something like that, nor can anyone prove the contrary. But some inferences can be drawn. For one thing, in the ordinary RC parish, what percentage of families are there with 5 or more children?
 
bilop said:
Using a condom for sexual acts where procreation is not possible b/c of the nature of the acts is not sinful. The acts themselves are, but not the condom use.

Any homosexual male who used a condom would not be committing an additional sin beyond the sex act itself.

God Bless
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Good catch, thanks for the correction.
 
dvdjs said:
:rolleyes: “practiced by a vast majority of practicing Roman Catholic couples”. I am skeptical, but I am open to your proof.
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I am too. I doubt the vast majority of Roman Catholic couples practice birth control by pills. At least not by those who really understand the sinful nature of the pills as birth control. There is really no point for Catholics to live with their consience knowing that what they do is sin.

We tried the pills a couple of years in the early years of our marriage in order to space the children but then after we actually understood the teaching of the Church on birth control by pills, we had never used it since. There is definitely nothing that would persuade us to use the pill no matter how much we want to space the arrival of children in the family. If other Catholics are like ourselves or remotely so, then they will not use the pills.

I think the poll does not really demonstrate whether Catholics who have understood the Church teaching on birth control by pills were the ones who practice this form of birth control. Perhaps questionaires should be customed, like, ‘do Catholics practice the pills knowing that it is against the Church teaching which says it is a sin to do so?’.
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
The first two make perfect sense- only those Catholic women of traditional childbearing age & of those only those who are sexual active, presumably married, as it wouldn’t make sense to ask single women or nuns. It’s the third that doesn’t make sense.
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Well… I don’t know, since the survey was asking about women who either use or have used contraception I don’t understand why they would start excluding those who are over 44 or not currently avoiding a pregnancy. I unerstand why they would exclude those under 15, and also why they would want to exclude anyone who has never tried to avoid/postpone a pregnancy, but it seems very inconsistant to ask about past use of contraceptives and then limit the survey to only those who are currently trying to avoid/postpone conception. 🤷
 
SummitJim said:
Certainly looks like splitting hairs to me. It often seems to me that our non-Roman brothers and sisters have to find justification for not agreeing with us, for fear that they would have to join us. I see this with some of my high-church Episcopalian fiends.
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A lot of high Anglicans just have a very different view on religion in general from that which is possible in Roman Catholicism. I was talking to a high church priest about this on Sunday. It is very difficult to precisely explain it, but though they co opt many of the beliefs and practices of the RCC, they sort of look on it a different way. Religion for many Anglicans is like art, a continuity with much latitude and few certainties.

I suspect that Orthodoxy is incompatible with Roman Catholicism because there is a sort of spiritual difference, a difference in inclination, disposition, which is tough to explain but nevertheless there. It might look superficially similar (as does Anglo-Catholicism) but there is a deeper difference, not easily explained by ticking off a list.
 
I suppose your right the Catholic Church seems more concerned with eternity then the novel thinking of man and his desire’s in the “as long as it doesn’t result in abortion” concept. Thus they use…NFP.

I agree the spiritual is well preserved in the CC. 👍
 
And even scarier than the “mild” side effects are the serious health risks that accompany birth control pills. These include: ,
:black_medium_small_square:Increased risk of cervical and breast cancers
:black_medium_small_square:Increased risk of heart attack and stroke
:black_medium_small_square:Migraines
:black_medium_small_square:Higher blood pressure
:black_medium_small_square:Gall bladder disease
:black_medium_small_square:Infertility
:black_medium_small_square:Benign liver tumors
:black_medium_small_square:Decreased bone density
:black_medium_small_square:Yeast overgrowth and infection
:black_medium_small_square:Increased risk of blood clotting

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How does the above work out with the spiritual direction one seeks?
 
The issues of birth control and abortion can be used to illustrate the basic lack of commitment among Catholics to the teachings of the Church. The Church’s official position on birth control is very clear. In Humane Vitae, Pope Paul VI states, “Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.” It is also clear that many Catholics openly reject the birth control teaching of the Church. In Sounding Board, Kathy Coffey provides surveys and letters to demonstrate this point. One survey reveals that 81% of Catholics believe that married Catholic couples have the right to follow their conscience in deciding whether to use artificial means of birth control. Another survey shows that 75% of Catholics disagree that in order to uphold the teaching of the Church, it’s important not to reverse the official teaching on birth control. Many Catholics feel that the Church has tightly held to its teaching on birth control without considering the views of most lay people.
catholicplanet.com/articles/article50.htm
 
Bottom line is those paying attention Orthodox or Catholic really aren’t having any issue. All agree NFP is the preferred choice #1. What one thinks from there, I also suggest the visit to the Priest. 👍
 
GaryTaylor said:
And even scarier than the “mild” side effects are the serious health risks that accompany birth control pills. These include: ,
:black_medium_small_square:Increased risk of cervical and breast cancers
:black_medium_small_square:Increased risk of heart attack and stroke
:black_medium_small_square:Migraines
:black_medium_small_square:Higher blood pressure
:black_medium_small_square:Gall bladder disease
:black_medium_small_square:Infertility
:black_medium_small_square:Benign liver tumors
:black_medium_small_square:Decreased bone density
:black_medium_small_square:Yeast overgrowth and infection
:black_medium_small_square:Increased risk of blood clotting
bodyecology.com

How does the above work out with the spiritual direction one seeks?
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I find that especially humorous - infertility as a negative side affect of the birth control pill…isn’t that why women who choose to use it are using it? :rotfl:

Back to the seriousnes of your question.

An Orthodox Christian couple would be consulting their spiritual father to discern the law, their motive and intent and how these are applicable to their unique family situation.

If the “intent” of an Orthodox Christian couple is to delay or prevent another pregnancy then they ought to meet with their spiritual father to discern their “motives” & the applicable “law”.

The "motives" are examined to determine if they are sinful reasons or a pure reason

sinful reasons might be selfishness if the couple doesn’t want to sell their mint condition porche to pay for the hospital bills from a next pregnancy or the couple just want to enjoy life now without middle of the night feeding and diaper changes. If sin is found to be at the root of their “intent” to delay or prevent the next pregnancy, then those are addressed through spiritual direction so their hearts can be healed from these underlying sins. At the discretion of the spiritual father would be whether or not he would give a blessing to use fertility control while they are working through the process of healing the underlying sins - one case I think of immediately is if the underlying sin is that the wife or husband is suffering from alcoholism, it may be wise for the priest to allow for fertility control until the sick spouse is able to maintain sobriety especially if the problem is with the wife as it could cause great harm to an unborn child if she were not able to maintain sobriety throughout the next pregnancy and often times, sins such as alcoholism can’t be healed overnight, it takes time and much rising and falling before it can be mastered.

pure reasons might be the couple has recently lost their source of income or had a reduction in their income and even though they have rebudgeted and down sized they are still are unable to pay or barely able to pay for the basic needs of their family or the wife if extremely fertile as some women are has had several back to back pregnancies and her body physically needs a break to recouperate between pregnancies so she can keep up with the very physical demands of motherhood for the couple’s children already born or maybe the wife was injured in an accident and although she’s healed enough for marital relations she is not yet strong enought to be able to carry the weight of a baby until further healing is completed.

If the “motives” are determined to be pure, then “laws” that apply are:
A. one of the purposes for marriage is pro-creation - this law should already be met
  • B. aborting a conceived human being is condemned - this law must not be violated
    = C. any fertility control method the couple chooses to use must not allow for the death or explusion of a conceived child either before or after implantation. The couple has the right and responsibility to do research on available fertility control methods to and make a selection that will work for them as a couple that does not violate this law.
goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8076
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
I find that especially humorous - infertility as a negative side affect of the birth control pill…isn’t that why women who choose to use it are using it? :rotfl:
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I think what was meant was unwanted infertility after they stop using the pill. This is a reported side effect of the pill. 🤷
 
I do like the term “Fertility Control” over “Birth Control”.

Abortion is a “Birth Control” method by preventing a live “Birth”.

A Christian would, if the situation called for it, would not want to control the birth of a conceived child, but really be trying to control their fertility to prevent the conception of a child = “Fertility Control”.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Bottom line is those paying attention Orthodox or Catholic really aren’t having any issue. All agree NFP is the preferred choice #1. What one thinks from there, I also suggest the visit to the Priest. 👍
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I disagree. The preferred choice is not to engage in any sort of methods of birth control at all. Methods like NFP should not be used except by dispensation.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Bottom line is those paying attention Orthodox or Catholic really aren’t having any issue. All agree NFP is the preferred choice #1. What one thinks from there, I also suggest the visit to the Priest. 👍
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🙂 If fertility control is needed based on a couple’s difficult situation, NFP is probably one of the better choices available 🙂
 
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