Eastern Rite and Pope Benedict XIV

[Isa_Almisry]

I was born and raised American Protestant (Lutheran and later became a non denominational Charismatic). Almost 30 years practicing, before becoming an Orthodox Seeker then years after that eventually joining the Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt.

I’m not a very good convert (Fasting wise especially. A bit of a culture shock going from free range Protestantism to the Coptic Church).

Interesting: how come you didn’t go with the Syriac, when you said that was your first exposure (and I note Addai is a very Syriac name).

Btw, I was LCA just before it became ELCA.

 

[Addai]

Interesting: how come you didn’t go with the Syriac, when you said that was your first exposure (and I note Addai is a very Syriac name).

Btw, I was LCA just before it became ELCA.

Well I was in a church group that was a heavily Protestantized, Assyrian Church of the East. Imagine a church that used the liturgy of Addai and Mari but was very Charismatic Protestant in orientation.

My best friend eventually became a priest with them and I was also working with him to try to start a local mission for a couple of years and would have gone that route too (I was technically a “sub deacon before I left”). The only problem was I had done more study into early church history and theology then he and most of their heirarchy (who likewise were very Protestanty except for their vestments). I spent a lot of time reading EO books as well as some traditional COE writings.

I basically felt like everything that I believed as far as Traditonal Apostolic Christianity was being hijacked over Seeker Sensitive feel good Protestantism. I also realized that I believed in some traditional catholic things that they didn’t like Mary as “Theotokos”. So I eventually had to leave for my own sanity.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Well I was in a church group that was a heavily Protestantized, Assyrian Church of the East. Imagine a church that used the liturgy of Addai and Mari but was very Charismatic Protestant in orientation.

My best friend eventually became a priest with them and I was also working with him to try to start a local mission for a couple of years and would have gone that route too (I was technically a “sub deacon before I left”). The only problem was I had done more study into early church history and theology then he and most of their heirarchy (who likewise were very Protestanty except for their vestments). I spent a lot of time reading EO books as well as some traditional COE writings.

I basically felt like everything that I believed as far as Traditonal Apostolic Christianity was being hijacked over Seeker Sensitive feel good Protestantism. I also realized that I believed in some traditional catholic things that they didn’t like Mary as “Theotokos”. So I eventually had to leave for my own sanity.

Ah, Eastern Syriac. I thought you were with the West Syriacs (ie.the Orthodox).

Yes, there seems to be a lot of Protestant influence on the Assyrians, to judge from their writings, based in part on the similar iconoclasm.

 

[Addai]

).

Btw, I was LCA just before it became ELCA.

I was born in a church that was Missouri synod before it broke away when the liberals tried to take over in the 60s. We became Wisconsin synod later, I was confirmed in that denomination.

 

[Formosus]

Yes Formosus I’m glad your setting him straight., the Assyrian Church of the East in terms of numbers held the majority for quite some time. By the year of AD 800 or so there were suppose to have been more COE then all the Latin West and Byzantine East combined.

Interesting, though I was really pointing out number wise within the Catholic Church at the time. Since the COE had already split off. Still fascinating information though. I never realized that it flourished like that being within the pagan persian empire and later the islamic caliphates. Was it population percent wise or actualy physical numbers?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Interesting, though I was really pointing out number wise within the Catholic Church at the time. Since the COE had already split off. Still fascinating information though. I never realized that it flourished like that being within the pagan persian empire and later the islamic caliphates. Was it population percent wise or actualy physical numbers?

Both.

The Iranians were beginning to fall fast to Christianity, in the Nestorian, but also other forms. The Nestorian Catholicos before the Mongol devistation (Genghis Khan’s mother was a Nestorian, btw) had sees all the way to Japan.

 

[Formosus]

I did know about the wide extent of east-syrian Christian influence. I just didn’t realize they had the numbers to go along with it. I have seen pictures of ruins of COE churches in china. Very interesting stuff : )

 

[Addai]

Interesting, though I was really pointing out number wise within the Catholic Church at the time. Since the COE had already split off. Still fascinating information though. I never realized that it flourished like that being within the pagan persian empire and later the islamic caliphates. Was it population percent wise or actualy physical numbers?

They are estimated numbers from historians based on examining things like historical accounts of Bar Sama, Marco Polo, physical evidence like grave stones, church ruins etc.

If you enjoy the topic, you may like some of these web sites and online books.

East of the Euphrates: Early Christianity in Asia by T.V. Philip
religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=1553

nestorian.org/

By Foot to China
aina.org/books/bftc/bftc.htm

 

[Debora]

Actually, that was a matter of faith. Galileo said that sun does not moving, thereby contradicting what the book of Joshua says. The Church was right, scientifically, but that was only accidental to asserting that Scripture is inerrant, even if we don’t fully understand it.

I came across this topic and want to comment on Galileo. I know that it is a bit off the main topic but I feel it is still important. A few years back I heard a Christian news program on the radio station, Star 99.1, about the facts relating to Galileo and his excommunication. I wish I could remember the program and the author’s name.

A Protestant reporter had gained access to the Vatican records on this very topic. He said the historical archives revealed that Galileo was not excommunicated for saying the world was not flat and that it revolved around the sun, but rather for disobedience.

It seems that the Pope at that time had an open and scientific mind and had summoned Galileo to Rome to discuss his findings. The Pope wanted to see if the science held up and then he would make a statement regarding the facts. Galileo refused the Pope because he did not feel he needed Papal authority and approval for his work. In addition he wrote anti-Catholic and anti-Papal documents on the subject.

Since the Pope was so disrespected and Galileo was so disobedient, the Pope excommunicated him and would not change the Church’s teaching on the subject.

All these years the world has had a false view on the Church and the Galileo story.

This web site also has information on the subject.
catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/03/galileo-inquisition-fully-explained.html

God Bless, DD