Eastern take on charismatic renewal

[gohjedrek]

Yes, forgot to mention that it was the protestant pentecostal church. Not too sure whether the catholic charismatic renewal came first or the protestant ones, but I will think there is some form of link between the two. Some people argue that the protestant one came first and it influenced the catholic church. Some people argue that it came around the same time. I am not too sure of the history, but as to the practices of the church I used to go to, I can confirm that what I shared, is not an exaggeration but real-life account.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

From what I’ve heard, the Catholic and protestant charismatic stuff got started around the same time. Which came first, I’m not sure. I think the protestant charismatic renewal has been more influenced by the older pentecostalism, whereas the Catholic charismatic renewal has largely been influenced by older Catholic traditions. In some areas, as I pointed out, the Catholic mystical tradition has really taken root within the Catholic charismatic renewal.

My wife’s experience with the protestant version of the renewal sounds like it was similar to yours. Her (and my) experience in the Catholic charismatic renewal, on the other hand, was largely positive. That being said, as I mentioned before, every movement has its strengths and weaknesses. Take what is good and discard what is bad.

 

[po18guy]

Protestantism has division in its DNA - no way around that. It began to divide even before it got moving. Fundamentally, I believe that it is based on Christ, but driven by individual egos - thus it was doomed to self-pulverize from the beginning.

A firm grasp upon human nature will reveal why - save for natural disasters - all things on earth occur. We are universally broken, and seek our own needs at the cost of unity. Conversely, any good that is done is done so only by fighting against our human nature.

The Catholic Church, being founded on Christ, rather than some man’s personal opinion of theology, strives (look that up) for unity. As such, there is still division (as we see here), but far less of it and an overall teaching of humility and submission to the Holy Spirit - if not in Name, at least in principle.

What many today do not realize is that the Holy Spirit - always and everywhere - leads to humility and unity. We do not get it our way, no matter what the culture tells us. The Holy Spirit cannot divide, as that is simply impossible. Ah, but man’s ego certainly can!

Therefore, all Catholic charismatics are subject to the Church, subject to the Holy Father, subject to their Bishop. This is how Christians are kept on the same page. This is how Christ, who knew each of us intimately, intended to preserve and grow His Church.

And, this is why the charisms of the Holy Spirit - rightful property of Christ’s Church, are being returned to her; are being re-claimed. This should NOT be alarming, but comforting and peace-producing.

There is a rationality to the Church, a human reasoning, but even more a spirituality in combination with that reason. IMO, the Church has been tilting too far toward the rational and reasonable and away from the supernatural - the spiritual. All of this at the cost of the Holy Spirit’s influence.

Miracles. Ever see one? Ever experience one? We are intended to! “You will see greater things than these” said our Lord. The problem is not Him, it is not the faith, it is us, for failing to humbly submit to the Spirit. The problem is that this arrives at a cost to our egos in appearing as a fool for Christ.

Is it any wonder why the Holy Spirit - a Divine Person equally worthy of worship - is often called the “forgotten member of the Trinity”?

 

[gohjedrek]

I found that to be the case, people were motivated by the intellectual assent (read the scriptures only and try to prove others wrong) or spiritual assent (emphasise on the gifts of the holy spirit). On the part of seeking your own needs, in protestantism, it was buffet, pick and choose. I church hop numerous denominations to find the truth, ranging from those that emphasised on the intellect and those that emphasise or the spiritual. I realised at the end of the day, to go back to the Catholic Church.

As you mentioned the divisions in the Catholic Church are fewer, which is true. When I look at Catholic division, it’s small compared to the Anglican Church, where I originated from. There is a good balance between rationality and spirituality in the Catholic Church. Highly evangelical ones, emphasise on rationality and ignore spirituality altogether. Highly charismatic ones, emphasise on spirituality and ignore rationality altogether. I found the ones that don’t belong to either category, the liturgical ones, tend to be small in church membership and one will inevitably find their way to the Catholic or the Orthodox Church after much examination of early church history, depending on their study.

Something that really spoke to me was that in the pentecostal church I used to go, people always asked for a sign from God. They wanted more signs, without the signs, they would struggle in the faith. Submitting ourselves to God comes before asking for signs.

 

[Michael_Anthony]

The noteworthy difference between a charism and a talent, is a talent can be misused, while a charism is given to build the church, and so is only effective when used for that purpose.