Eating chicken on Fridays during Lent

[Bklynguy]

Lenten regulations in a particular country are regulated by their Bishop’s Conference. I know that in Mexico (not sure if it is every diocese) chicken is not considered “meat” because the alternatives, especially fish, are much more expensive for most of the people. The difficulty comes into play when the people from those areas move to the US, where chicken is not permissible.

That makes sense.

Like how it is here…

Eat a McDonald’s hamburger off the $1 menu, you broke the fast.

Eat lobster or shrimp parmesan, you are in compliance.

 

[Filioque]

Indults for various regions and feasts have always existed. In the US Meat was permitted on St. Patrick’s day when it fell on Friday, first among the Irish then extended to all the USA. The Friday after Thanksgiving it was permitted to eat meat because of the leftovers one had. My Father was in the Navy, and active duty and their family were exempted from Friday abstinence even before the Council when active duty and living on base, ship, or in action. When we lived on Base housing we kept the Friday abstinence, but could have eaten meat. Once we moved off base, my father while active duty was exempt, but the family was obligated to abstain.

So the legal status has been subject to differences, even in the case where the universal status for those who did not fall under those special circumstances was considered.

As to Mexico and Lent. It would seem from what I’ve been able to read thus far, there are two issues. Anything that is hatched from an egg, ie. Fish, Chicken, Duck is not flesh meat. If it was born from the mother, (partir) then it is flesh meat. There are a few Catholic sites which muddy this by saying if the meat is while, fish, chicken or pork, it’s ok. If it is red, beef, goat, chicken it must be abstained from. (What that does to Salmon, I don’t know.)

Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are both days on which no meat including Chicken and fish are eaten.

But I still have a bit more to find a site from an ecclesiastical authority. The web keeps coming up with Anglican and Sede Vacantist sites in Spanish.

 

[Miserissima]

Indults for various regions and feasts have always existed. In the US Meat was permitted on St. Patrick’s day when it fell on Friday, first among the Irish then extended to all the USA. The Friday after Thanksgiving it was permitted to eat meat because of the leftovers one had. My Father was in the Navy, and active duty and their family were exempted from Friday abstinence even before the Council when active duty and living on base, ship, or in action. When we lived on Base housing we kept the Friday abstinence, but could have eaten meat. Once we moved off base, my father while active duty was exempt, but the family was obligated to abstain.

So the legal status has been subject to differences, even in the case where the universal status for those who did not fall under those special circumstances was considered.

As to Mexico and Lent. It would seem from what I’ve been able to read thus far, there are two issues. Anything that is hatched from an egg, ie. Fish, Chicken, Duck is not flesh meat. If it was born from the mother, (partir) then it is flesh meat. There are a few Catholic sites which muddy this by saying if the meat is while, fish, chicken or pork, it’s ok. If it is red, beef, goat, chicken it must be abstained from. (What that does to Salmon, I don’t know.)

Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are both days on which no meat including Chicken and fish are eaten.

But I still have a bit more to find a site from an ecclesiastical authority. The web keeps coming up with Anglican and Sede Vacantist sites in Spanish.

Anyone able to read the archdiocese of Mexico’s website in Spanish? arquidiocesismexico.org.mx/

 

[Filioque]

Anyone able to read the archdiocese of Mexico’s website in Spanish? arquidiocesismexico.org.mx/

Gracias: Well nothing that defines what meat is. On the site. I’ll keep looking.

As an aside, I went to breakfast with some friends from Germany today. I ordered eggs, hash browns and toast, the order came with bacon which I asked the server to have put in a takeaway box. I told her that I was Catholic, and did not eat meat on Friday, but my dogs are not Catholics so I would take it home for them. Not just my table, but the evesdroppers at the surrounding tables burst into laughter, and someone at the next table thanked me for reminding them it was a Friday in Lent before they put their order in.
We are told not to have long faces, when we fast, and mortify, so why not make people laugh?

Canon 1251: Todos los viernes, a no ser que coincidan con una solemnidad, debe guardarse la abstinencia de carne, o de otro alimento que haya determinado la Conferencia Episcopal; ayuno y abstinencia se guardarán el miércoles de Ceniza y el Viernes Santo.

All Fridays that do not coincide with a great solemnity, we are required to abstain from meat or other foods that are determined by the Episcopal Conference, fasting and abstinence are required Ash Wednesday and Holy (Good) Friday.

La abstinencia consiste en no comer carne. Son días de abstinencia y ayuno el Miércoles de Ceniza y el Viernes Santo.

Abstinence consists of not eating meat. The days of abstinence and fasting are Ash Wednesday and Holy Friday.

 

[Miserissima]

Fili, that’s a great story!

I was wondering if the website said think about chicken proper as opposed to defining meat per se.

Now you have piqued my interest; I will join in your search to find the Church’s definition of “meat.”

 

[Aramis]

You seem to confuse a few things. Avoiding flesh meat on Fridays is abstaining, not fasting. In the US. Fish is not considered flesh meat.

Actually, for the Eastern Catholics, that is in fact what fasting is - the avoiding of meat, including avoiding fish.

 

[CaptFun]

Lenten regulations in a particular country are regulated by their Bishop’s Conference. I know that in Mexico (not sure if it is every diocese) chicken is not considered “meat” because the alternatives, especially fish, are much more expensive for most of the people. The difficulty comes into play when the people from those areas move to the US, where chicken is not permissible.

In that case they can still get to heaven … but they will look like THIS* !

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

• Unwarranted theological guess. Some will of course call FOWL! :blushing:

 

[Miserissima]

From Wiki: " “meat” refers to the muscular flesh of a mammal." But that talks in a culinary sense, although “mammal” is pretty clear.

I know I read the Church’s definition in a big blue tome I had once: A New Catholic Dictionary, 1929. I do not have the book, but I found a link to one online: archive.org/details/TheNewCatholicDictionary

I know I read the definition in there in hardcopy. Where? Dunno.

Are you able to look up ‘lent,’ 'abstinence / abstain" because my phone doesn’t like archive.org.

But know what? Not finding a definitive answer may be how the Church embraces the different cultures, economics, and local resources available to different peoples…

 

[Filioque]

Actually, for the Eastern Catholics, that is in fact what fasting is - the avoiding of meat, including avoiding fish.

Well there is a definition for the Latin Rite, which includes poultry, and mammals, but not fish, lizards, or eggs. The issue here is what is or is not permitted or classified as meat by the bishops conferences in local areas. Canon Law gives them liberty to dispense from the universal law for reasons they feel are appropriate.

Eastern Catholics and Orthodox, as well as Oriental Catholic and Orthodox Churches generally do not eat eggs, fish, dairy or oil during Lent, the same as the Early Church both East and West.

Among Orthodox Jews there are debates too. Some say swordfish is kosher, other say no. They are born with scales, and Kashrut says that a fish must have scales and fins, which is why crab, shrimp, shell fish and lobster is not permitted. But swordfish loose there scales when they mature. Some say a swordfish once had scales so it’s Kosher, other say as soon as it looses it’s scales it is no longer kosher.

 

[andrewstx]

The Latin Rite has modified abstinence rules over time. In the early Church, the practice was more like that of the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. No meat, including fish, no eggs, cheese or oil. Fasting is much more rigorous. Since eggs, fish, (nowadays even meat broth) are permitted in the Latin Rite, it’s become almost a custom in some places to have seafood on Fridays during Lent. In fact some live according to the letter, and not the spirit of the Law, eating shrimp, lobster, and other expensive seafood. I myself enjoy fish-sticks, they are cheap, easy to cook, not as good as salmon or sword fish, which I would prefer, they remind me of my childhood when that’s what we got growing up. Not a major mortification, but it’s what I do.

I do sometimes go for meatless including fish, eggs, and dairy. But not everyone feels they have had a meal without some sort of animal protein. I’m Hispanic, and I know many Hispanics don’t eat a meal without some sort of animal protein if they can avoid it. It could be cultural, or a sign that one is successful enough to afford some sort of meat. But among the very poor meat is a treat once a week or less even outside of Lent.

I personally have been so poor that I have had to live for days at a time on Tortillas and Frijoles and I know plenty of others in the same fix.

But does putting lard in your frijoles mean you are eating meat?

 

[andrewstx]

Actually, for the Eastern Catholics, that is in fact what fasting is - the avoiding of meat, including avoiding fish.

And olive oil, and wine and dairy.

 

[Aramis]

And olive oil, and wine and dairy.

My bishop only requires fasting from meat, save for the two days of severe fast. (On those two, it’s the full list.)

 

[Filioque]

I personally have been so poor that I have had to live for days at a time on Tortillas and Frijoles and I know plenty of others in the same fix.

But does putting lard in your frijoles mean you are eating meat?

In the Latin Rite, lard is grouped with butter, so is permitted to flavor meals. It was used as a substitute for butter prior to the invention of olio (Margarine)