Eating for pleasure is gluttony?

[TK421]

Does this mean that it’s “gluttony from luxury” to want your steak medium rare instead of well done? Or is it “gluttony from luxury” to eat steak at all?

Here is a good excerpt in the Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis on gluttony of luxury (or gluttony of delicacy) which is based on the teachings of the great medieval theologians:

"My dear Wormwood,

The contemptuous way in which you spoke of gluttony as a means of catching souls, in your last letter, only shows your ignorance. One of the great achievements of the last hundred years has been to deaden the human conscience on that subject, so that by now you will hardly find a sermon preached or a conscience troubled by it in the whole length and breadth of Europe. This has largely been effected by concentrating all our efforts on gluttony of Delicacy, not gluttony of Excess. Your patient’s mother, as I learn from the dossier and you might have learned from Glubose, is a good example. She would be astonished—one day, I hope, will be—to learn that her whole life is enslaved to this kind of sensuality, which is quite concealed from her by the fact that the quantities involved are small. But what do quantities matter, provided we can use a human belly and palate to produce querulousness, impatience, uncharitableness and self-concern? Glubose has this old woman well in hand. She is a positive terror to hostesses and servants. She is always turning from what has been offered her to say with a demure little sigh and a smile ‘Oh please, please … all I want is a cup of tea, weak but not too weak, and the teeniest weeniest bit of really crisp toast’. You see? Because what she wants is smaller and less costly than what has been set before her, she never recognises as gluttony her determination to get what she wants, however troublesome it may be to others. At the very moment of indulging her appetite she believes that she is practising temperance. In a crowded restaurant she gives a little scream at the plate which some overworked waitress has set before her and says, ‘Oh, that’s far, far too much! Take it away and bring me about a quarter of it’. If challenged, she would say she was doing this to avoid waste; in reality she does it because the particular shade of delicacy to which we have enslaved her is offended by the sight of more food than she happens to want.”

As with any other sin, gluttony distracts us and takes us away from the universal vocation to love God and to love our neighbor.

 

[Sarcelle]

Eating disorder is one thing. Looking forward to a spaghetti dinner in the company of good friends is another.

There are fasts and then there are feasts. They both have a place in a virtuous life.

Again if your appetite is rightly ordered, enjoying a meal is not sin.

 

[Lucy_1]

But a perfectly ripe strawberry would be good for your health as well as enjoyable, so that would fall into line with what he’s saying.

 

[Sarcelle]

If he said the reason we eat should be health alone, then that removes enjoyment.

This means eating a sweet strawberry and enjoying it is a sin.

The ability to enjoy something without overdoing it is called temperance and it is a virtue. It is not mutually exclusive to enjoy a meal and be temperate at the same time.

Even when one eats and enjoys ice cream.

 

[Freddy]

I don’t know if there is any significance to wine being served at a Jewish wedding in 30 AD but there may be. It may have had significance beyond just “drinking”.

I’m not sure if you drink wine. If you don’t, you should try it. It’s quite a pleasurable experience. That’s why people drink it.

If someone has contact details for Ripperger we should ask him if he enjoys a wine or two. Or a Coke. Or maybe he’s a Pepsi kinda guy. We could check to see if he likes Dorritos.

 

[Mythicalbio]

He does drink wine, and thinks parents have a natural right to give their children wine. It is in his talk on temperance. He also believes that cutting out such pleasures entirely is bad, and not virtuous. I forget where that is, but he gave a whole story on it.

 

[CTBcin]

Seems to contradict what (little) I know about moral philosophy and ethics.

Pleasure is a good: it’s low on the hierarchy of goods, but still a good. Based on that, it seems to me that eating for pleasure alone can be a good as well, as long as it’s not taken to excess.

That’s probably such an oversimplification/ butchering of ethics, so don’t take my word for it!

 

[Freddy]

He does drink wine, and thinks parents have a natural right to give their children wine. It is in his talk on temperance. He also believes that cutting out such pleasures entirely is bad, and not virtuous. I forget where that is, but he gave a whole story on it.

That’s probably the case. I think some of us are perhaps giving Ripperger a harder time than he deserves in this case. Not that most of his views need challenging. He does have some odd ones.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Fr Ripperger’s views on food are one priest’s opinions, as are his opinions on women in the workplace and many other subjects.

Yes, it’s a good idea if we don’t abuse our bodies by shoving excessive junk food into them, but an occasional junk food snack in moderation is fine. This is basic common sense. When i have not practiced good eating habits, my body generally lets me know without needing a priest’s help, and I see no need to evaluate every bite of food I put in my mouth against a priest’s standard any more than I feel a need to jump out of bed at first ring of the alarm because St Josemaria Escriva thought it was a good habit.

Part of spiritual maturity is separating the wheat from the chaff for yourself personally when reading or listening to the teachings of priests and saints.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Part of spiritual maturity is separating the wheat from the chaff for yourself personally when reading or listening to the teachings of priests and saints.

Agreed. And remember the Church has had thousands of Saints and many more priests, so don’t take any of them (cough Father Ripperger cough) as the authoritative source on absolutely every question under the sun.

 

[kapp19]

Of course it’s a sin. The digestive faculty exists to help us stay alive… the pleasure of food is ordered to that, not the other way around. It’s not a sin to delight in licit pleasures, and it’s actually a good thing to take pleasure in a virtuous act, but to eat without proportion to your wellbeing or without any care for it is more than that… it’s venial sin.

 

[JanR]

We were given taste buds so we can enjoy our food, hopefully the nutritious kind most of the time. But a little pleasure eating now and then, regardless of nutrition, certainly can’t hurt us, as long as it’s in moderation and not too often. It’s perfectly okay to enjoy life here on earth. It was never meant to be a miserable dungeon.

 

[Lucy_1]

What might be “too much”? I mean, of course it depends on your state and circumstance of life, but what would be some guidelines for say, the average American? I say US rather than other western developed countries, because I think we have a lot more access and encouragement around junk foods

 

[Mythicalbio]

Americans, at least the ones I’m around since I am one, are going too much at all times. Try limiting junk food and sweets to solemnities and octaves (for most of the year this is once a week) and any special days, holidays, borthdays, patron saint days, etc. This should make it where most of the time you don’t eat bad, but sometimes you celebrate. Also try not to go over the calorie limit by half of half on special days, if you need 2k don’t try to go too far over 2.5k. And exercise.

These aren’t hard rules obviously, just my judgment on it. It keeps a nice balance in my life.

 

[JanR]

It’s sensible.

 

[Aulef]

Actually, eating is pleasant because God wanted the act of sustaining life/preserving health to be pleasant.

Notice the motive to eat isn’t pleasure.

Fr. Ripperger is great theologian and a great philosopher. Take some time to digest his teachings. It is worthy.

 

[Lucy_1]

Good guidelines

 

[annad347]

I thought the sin of gluttony wasn’t necessarily just about food, but about wanting, needing, having more then you have. Its about being greedy person. I didn’t know it was just about food… I thought it was more.