Ebenezer "Her Church" Lutheran (ELCA) in San Francisco, California

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JonNC said:
So, Pastor, the issue is not a lack of authority, but an authority that is either unwilling
correct these folks, or worse, find nothing wrong with their teachings.
It does does not sounding lack authority, rather you need new authority.
As you know, the LCA/ELCA is where I was baptized , confirmed, and received first Holy Communion. You are ever in my prayers.
Jon
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Probably more than that, Jon…a leader who can be a symbol of their unity and orthodoxy.
 
JonNC said:
So, Pastor, the issue is not a lack of authority, but an authority that is either unwilling
correct these folks, or worse, find nothing wrong with their teachings.
It does does not sounding lack authority, rather you need new authority.
As you know, the LCA/ELCA is where I was baptized , confirmed, and received first Holy Communion. You are ever in my prayers.
Jon
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A corrupt leadership would be a lack of authority right? Many here in my area that were once ELCA as yourself, left and went to the LCMC.
 
sojo said:
And it appears the “Her Church” movement has been accepted by the ELCA though some of its members are not happy about it.

exposingtheelca.com/1/post/2010/05/worship-of-goddess-in-the-elca-and-lead-by-synod-council-leader.html

And its not going away any time soon – the article says the Her Church movement and the Goddess Rosary and services have been around for a long time in its original SF location but they are spreading to other ELCA locations.
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o man that is just sicko.
 
To what “goddess” are they praying? Just a generic goddess (I’ve seen references to "the goddess within) or a particular goddess?
 
This is where the great Lutheran theologian Charles Porterfield Krauth had it right when error comes into the Church.
“When error is admitted into the Church, it will be found that the stages of it’s progress are always three.
Stage 1 - Toleration: It begins by asking toleration. It’s friend say to the majority; You need not be afraid of us; we are few, and weak; only let us alone; we shall not disturb the faith of others. The Church has her standards of doctrine; of course we shall never interfere with them; we only ask for ourselves to be spared interference with our private opinions.
Stage 2 - Equality: Indulged in this for a time, error goes on to assert equal rights. Truth and error are two balancing forces. The Church shall do nothing which looks like deciding between them; that would be partiality. It is bigotry to assert any superior right for the truth. We are to agree to differ, and any favoring of the truth, because it is the truth, is partisanship. What the friends of truth and error hold in common is fundamental. Anything on which they differ is ispo facto non-essential. Anyone who makes account of such thing is a disturber of the peace of the church. Truth and error are two co-ordinate powers, and the great secret of church statesmanship is to preserve the balance between them.
Stage3 - Supremacy: From this point error soon goes on to it’s natural end, which is to assert supremacy. Truth started with tolerating; it comes to be merely tolerated, and that only for a time. Error claims a preference for its judgements on all disputed points. It puts men into position, not as it’s first in spite of their departure from the Church’s faith, but in consequence of it, and to make them skillful in combating it.”
The ELCA is close to being in Stage 3’
 
Have to admit being floored by this parish. Considering the city & liberal synod bishop, I can’t be too surprised. The pastor herchurch.org/id6.html is a graduate of Christ Seminary/ SemInEx & a former LCMS Lutheran.

I can appreciate the need to seek femininity within the faith and notice the parish is celebrating Mary Magdalena. The Mother of God epitomizes the oneness of man and woman in God. What is “CHRIST-SOPHIA?” :confused:
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Have to admit being floored by this parish. Considering the city & liberal synod bishop, I can’t be too surprised. The pastor herchurch.org/id6.html is a graduate of Christ Seminary/ SemInEx & a former LCMS Lutheran.

I can appreciate the need to seek femininity within the faith and notice the parish is celebrating Mary Magdalena. The Mother of God epitomizes the oneness of man and woman in God. What is “CHRIST-SOPHIA?” :confused:
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Sophia is gnostic
 
I’m surprised the synod doesn’t act. After all, its a doctrinal issue not a gender one since ELCA allows a gay clergy.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
What is “CHRIST-SOPHIA?” :confused:
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This may not apply to Herchurch, but I am aware that there are feminist theologians who see the personification of the Wisdom (which is always discussed in the feminine) in the Biblical Wisdom tradition as a female aspect of God. Wisdom is “Sophia” in Greek.

The Church fathers identified the Wisdom of the Old Testament with the Word of the New Testament. Essentially, “Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God” (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Revisionist theologians, however, make “Sophia” a feminine aspect of Christ—the feminine Wisdom and the masculine Word.

Or something like that I would imagine.
 
Found info regarding the clergy at Ebenezer church:

The Rev Stacy Boorn, the Pastor for herchurch, uses feminist theology in the church’s expression of faith, worship, learning, mutual care, and acts of justice. Megan Rohrer is the Associate Pastor and is openly gay. Rohrer was ordained extraordinarily in defiance of ELCA Synod authority. Instead Rohrer, priestess, is rostered by Extraordinary Lutheran Ministries, which is “committed to the full participation of persons of all sexual orientations and gender identities in the life and ministry of the Lutheran church.”

Discipline for parishes that call pastors from the ELM roster has varied throughout the ELCA. Members of the ELM Roster are/were members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada.

Bishop Mark Holmerud - Pacific Sierra Synod & deans can be contacted:
spselca.org/staff.html
 
Don’t worry. The ELCA here in Minnesota and everywhere else is wonderful and orthodox. Every religion has their whacko schismatos.
 
VanSensei said:
Don’t worry. The ELCA here in Minnesota and everywhere else is wonderful and orthodox. Every religion has their whacko schismatos.
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No offense, but “everywhere else is wonderful and orthodox” is a strong statement concerning the ELCA. Compared to other Lutheran churches, the ELCA has not been the most vigorous in defending traditional Christianity.
 
ltwin said:
No offense, but “everywhere else is wonderful and orthodox” is a strong statement concerning the ELCA. Compared to other Lutheran churches, the ELCA has not been the most vigorous in defending traditional Christianity.
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Whoa! Write the date down. We agree on something 😛
 
ltwin said:
This may not apply to Herchurch, but I am aware that there are feminist theologians who see the personification of the Wisdom (which is always discussed in the feminine) in the Biblical Wisdom tradition as a female aspect of God. Wisdom is “Sophia” in Greek.

The Church fathers identified the Wisdom of the Old Testament with the Word of the New Testament. Essentially, “Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God” (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Revisionist theologians, however, make “Sophia” a feminine aspect of Christ—the feminine Wisdom and the masculine Word.

Or something like that I would imagine.
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“Christ-Sophia” is a confusing term, but in 19th and early 20th century Russia there was some toying with “Sophiology,” first by some non-Christian folks but ultimately by the Christian Fr. Sergius Bulgakov (Russian Orthodox priest). Fr. Sergius integrated Sophia as Wisdom, and a feminine aspect of the Godhead. It was ultimately condemned by a Russian Synod. While I have a couple of Fr. Sergius’ works on Sophia and the Holy Spirit, I haven’t read them as to know how Sophia relates to the Godhead (i.e. whether it was a hypostatic person or what) other than it was not a feminine aspect of Christ as the Sophia seemingly referred to by this Herchurch. He actually denied the historical association of Christ with Wisdom.

Just an interesting aside I suppose for anyone interested in Sophiology that isn’t coming out of liberal feminist theologians. Fr. Sergius, AFAIK, was neither liberal nor feminist.
 
ltwin said:
No offense, but “everywhere else is wonderful and orthodox” is a strong statement concerning the ELCA. Compared to other Lutheran churches, the ELCA has not been the most vigorous in defending traditional Christianity.
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An unnamed ELCA church here in South Carolina voted their pastor out a few years back when he came out of the closet so here they are still somewhat traditional. It was 60-40, but still.
 
just_came_back said:
An unnamed ELCA church here in South Carolina voted their pastor out a few years back when he came out of the closet so here they are still somewhat traditional. It was 60-40, but still.
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What’s curious about this is, it is not important, in my view, what you say or think your gender attraction may be, but how you act on it. “Coming out of the closet” is not by itself, cause. Acting on it is.
My issue with the ELCA’s 2011 pronouncement was the acceptance of practicing gays in “committed relationships” being permitted ordination. OTOH, heterosexual pastors’ “committed relationships” are limited to marriage. Its both the approval of the “committed relationship” and the double standard that are problematic.

So, while the pastor should have kept his preference to himself, if he isn’t acting on said preference, he may still be abiding by the faith.

Jon
 
I don’t know why exactly he left as what I had posted was from another source.
 
hn160 said:
The ELCA knows about this church and the ELCA ordains homosexuals, many of the churches have the Rainbow Symbol on their church signs. Remember the ELCA is in communion with other Church Bodies that ordain homosexuals. Take a look at this statement on the ELCA web site elca.org/What-We-Believe/Social-Issues/Journal-of-Lutheran-Ethics/Issues/August-2004/The-Church-and-Homosexuality.aspx
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Just for the record, all Christian communions ordain men who are homosexual including the Roman Catholic Church. What is relevant here is not whether a person is homosexual or not but whether the person is living together with another homosexual person. It is only the latter situation that violates the moral and canonical laws of the Roman Catholic Church. On the other hand, in Latin America it is not uncommon for Catholic priests to be in a committed sexual relationship with their “housekeepers.” This, of course, is also a violation of Church Canon Law, but in this latter case, the situation is often ignored by the local ordinary.
 
Jotto said:
Just for the record, all Christian communions ordain men who are homosexual including the Roman Catholic Church. What is relevant here is not whether a person is homosexual or not but whether the person is living together with another homosexual person. It is only the latter situation that violates the moral and canonical laws of the Roman Catholic Church. On the other hand, in Latin America it is not uncommon for Catholic priests to be in a committed sexual relationship with their “housekeepers.” This, of course, is also a violation of Church Canon Law, but in this latter case, the situation is often ignored by the local ordinary.
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You are correct. The difference, of course, is that in the ELCA, it is no longer against their moral teaching for that pastor/priest to be in a “committed relationship” (unless it is heterosexual - then they have to be married :hypno:).

Jon
 
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