Ecemunical Council

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Peter_J said:
Hmmm … I don’t know, FollowChrist. 😦 That seems awfully like something an Anglican would say/said.
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Or Orthodox:
We (Orthodox) even have differences within the Orthodox Church and the non-orthodox churches but most hold to the same essentials; the divinity of Christ, the sinlessness of Jesus, the sinfulness of man, Jesus’ atoning work at Calvary, His death, burial, and resurrection as a historical fact, and that believers will receive eternal life at death or at Christ’s return, whichever comes first. We must embrace those who differ from us because God does not want us divided over non-essentials but united in Christ for we are all one Body of Believers and there are Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant believers who will be in the Kingdom of Heaven. We may disagree in their practices but we don’t have to be disagreeable.
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This is from an Orthodox (What do they believe?) article (Patheos). I believe the Church comprises those who subscribe to the above essentials or what I called “Biblical theology” (creed, authentic faith, word and deed) - in that there are members of the Church from Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox. Sheep and goats might be the Scriptural way of putting it - this is what I mean when I say the Holy Spirit works to unify the sheep. My take is that Catholic teaching would largely agree with this. 🙂 Anglicans too, as you point out.
 
benjamindt said:
I think the fact that this thread has gone off topic for so long is, in itself, a great analogy for how useful an ecumenical council would be in the manner proposed by the thread.

It seems like an ec like the one suggested would be for no other purpose than to try to point out where the Catholics are wrong and see how much she can be moved into the domain of protestantism.
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Not why I suggested a ecemunical council for , not even close .
 
benjamindt said:
I think the fact that this thread has gone off topic for so long is, in itself, a great analogy for how useful an ecumenical council would be in the manner proposed by the thread.

It seems like an ec like the one suggested would be for no other purpose than to try to point out where the Catholics are wrong and see how much she can be moved into the domain of protestantism.
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I agree with this point after reading this thread. I think the Protestant agenda would be to do away with the Pope. (He’s the AntiChrist, in the "seat " of the AntiChrist, changed the Sabbath day etc.)

It’s the only thing it seems the majority of Protestants may agree upon.

Mary.
 
MaryT777 said:
I agree with this point after reading this thread. I think the Protestant agenda would be to do away with the Pope. (He’s the AntiChrist, in the "seat " of the AntiChrist, changed the Sabbath day etc.)

It’s the only thing it seems the majority of Protestants may agree upon.

Mary.
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Many would be fine with a bishop of Rome , and a minority of Protestants hold the anti Christ view
 
MaryT777 said:
What do you envision the top issue on the agenda would be?

Mary.
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Dealing with modernism , the sexual abuse, relationships between Christian churches , helping stop persecution, women deacons , and more.

What would you propose ?
 
Peter_J said:
Well that’s not as bad.

:cool: 😃

(As you’ve probably guessed, my last post was partially to see who was paying attention. 🙂
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😉 It’s funny. After I posted that, I thought - uh-oh…everyone will think I am converting to Orthodox. Anglican never crossed my mind… 😃 I actually looked up the Orthodox on the topic…good thing too - I needed it!
 
As I said before, this is no longer a thread about how to bring unity to Christians through the dissemination and teaching of truly Christian doctrine/dogma. This is a thread meant to overturn Catholic dogma and doctrine in order to make Christianity more inviting to non-Catholics, by serving up Truth in a buffet and telling everyone:

“It’s okay to just have some of it and reject the rest. You’re fine as long as you worship God. In fact, let’s just say Christianity is whatever makes you feel good and all the rest is relative nonsense. My my, what delicious reform this is.”
 
benjamindt said:
As I said before, this is no longer a thread about how to bring unity to Christians through the dissemination and teaching of truly Christian doctrine/dogma. This is a thread meant to overturn Catholic dogma and doctrine in order to make Christianity more inviting to non-Catholics, by serving up Truth in a buffet and telling everyone:

“It’s okay to just have some of it and reject the rest. You’re fine as long as you worship God. In fact, let’s just say Christianity is whatever makes you feel good and all the rest is relative nonsense. My my, what delicious reform this is.”
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How is what I proposed ANYTHING like what you just said, answer it’s NOT.
 
Starwarsfan2 said:
Dealing with modernism , the sexual abuse, relationships between Christian churches , helping stop persecution, women deacons , and more.

What would you propose ?
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Modernism is the killer I think. Very very similar to paganism in ancient Rome. This is what gets me - we have such a powerful enemy persecuting us. The Churches are all under threat - do we circle the wagons? :nope:

My point is I have faith that the Holy Spirit will draw the sheep together. I doubt humans in any denomination (including Catholics) are capable of the wisdom, self-control and humility that it would require to unify the Church and retain orthodoxy. Could we just draw together more and strengthen the Church through ecumenical dialogue, maybe.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Modernism is the killer I think. Very very similar to paganism in ancient Rome. This is what gets me - we have such a powerful enemy persecuting us. The Churches are all under threat - do we circle the wagons? :nope:

My point is I have faith that the Holy Spirit will draw the sheep together. I doubt humans in any denomination (including Catholics) are capable of the wisdom, self-control and humility that it would require to unify the Church and retain orthodoxy. Could we just draw together more and strengthen the Church through ecumenical dialogue, maybe.
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Maybe, it’s possible
Keep the faith , FollowChrist Starwars 🙂
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Modernism is the killer I think. Very very similar to paganism in ancient Rome. This is what gets me - we have such a powerful enemy persecuting us. The Churches are all under threat - do we circle the wagons? :nope:

My point is I have faith that the Holy Spirit will draw the sheep together. I doubt humans in any denomination (including Catholics) are capable of the wisdom, self-control and humility that it would require to unify the Church and retain orthodoxy. Could we just draw together more and strengthen the Church through ecumenical dialogue, maybe.
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In order to circle the wagons, they’d have to be on the same trail. While I agree many have the same goal in mind, like reaching the west coast, many have left the wagon train long ago and are unknowingly headed towards the gulf coast instead, or wherever you prefer for the analogy.
 
I hope for the day where everyone is fully participating in Christ’s Church. I hope for complete unity, but it has to be said that unity can’t be had if non-catholics aren’t willing to accept all the church’s teachings/dogmas/doctrines. Christ didn’t give us a menu, he offered us a meal, we don’t get to pick how we’re going to get there, and quite frankly, other than as a result of invincible ignorance, I don’t think the excuse “well it’s what i was born in” will be valid in the end, but then again, only God knows.

I really do hope that more will be saved and God will be very merciful, I just don’t see that level of mercy that some think there’s gonna be when i read the fathers and the scriptures (especially the scriptures). I call to mind Matthew 7: 21-23 usccb.org/bible/matthew/7/21
 
benjamindt said:
In order to circle the wagons, they’d have to be on the same trail. While I agree many have the same goal in mind, like reaching the west coast, many have left the wagon train long ago and are unknowingly headed towards the gulf coast instead, or wherever you prefer for the analogy.
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Precisely the point where I bow out and leave it to the Holy Spirit. No one comes to know God without the work of the Holy Spirit. We will never know who will be saved and who won’t, within the Catholic Church or without it.

To deny this is to reject Catholic teaching.

I agree that the Catholic Church is the true fullness of the Christian faith. I allow that Christians not in full communion and even nonChristians can be saved by the grace of God.

I have more in common with a “traditional” Protestant or Orthodox who opposes abortion, SSM, the HHS mandate, secular ideology (speaking generally in modern, practical terms) than I do with what Cardinal Marx or Kasper represent. (or Episcopalians, ELCA, non-denominational Evangelicals, some denominational Evangelicals)
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I have more in common with a “traditional” Protestant or Orthodox who opposes abortion, SSM, the HHS mandate, secular ideology (speaking generally in modern, practical terms) than I do with what Cardinal Marx or Kasper represent.
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Well said. And very timely, I might add, inasmuch as divisions-among-conservatives have been very visible lately in the U… well, maybe I shouldn’t name the country, but let’s just say it was one the Pope visited not long ago. :cool:
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Precisely the point where I bow out and leave it to the Holy Spirit. No one comes to know God without the work of the Holy Spirit. We will never know who will be saved and who won’t, within the Catholic Church or without it.

To deny this is to reject Catholic teaching.

I agree that the Catholic Church is the true fullness of the Christian faith. I allow that Christians not in full communion and even nonChristians can be saved by the grace of God.

I have more in common with a “traditional” Protestant or Orthodox who opposes abortion, SSM, the HHS mandate, secular ideology (speaking generally in modern, practical terms) than I do with what Cardinal Marx or Kasper represent. (or Episcopalians, ELCA, non-denominational Evangelicals, some denominational Evangelicals)
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what does it matter how much we have in common? Does it mean that we decide to not preach the truth to those who are closer to us because they’ll be fine since they’re almost there? Does it mean we pretend that someone who comes to the catholic forum and has this level of access to knowledge of the one true faith but continues to reject it is somehow excused for his or her rejection of the Church because they’re “close enough” or they were “born into it”?

I don’t think the “born into it” would’ve saved Saul of Tarsus. I don’t EVER remember Christ telling others to continue on with whatever they feel more comfortable with. I don’t remember Christ saying “if you go to a town and they reject you, they are saved because they didn’t reject you 100%”

I just don’t understand the point to all this, if the goal is not to teach and bring about the conversion of all non-catholics. (obviously i mean them converting, not us converting them)

What is the point of putting doctrine/dogma on the table as if we’re willing to discuss it and change it if it will only fill a few more seats on Sundays.

Shouldn’t any EC be about the differences between the churches and why it is wrong to continue teaching false doctrines and why they are false doctrines?

If you grow up baptist and you submerge yourself in a catholic forum and you read all the information and listen to all the arguments and you still reject the catholic church, what good is an EC?
 
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