Eckhart Tolle - New Age Movement. What is the Catholic Teaching on these matters?

[bartlettj]

Liza - Thank you very much! That is exactly what I was looking for! It is an awesome breakdown of Tolle, Oprah, and New Age Theories. Awesome is probably too weak of a word, but I can’t think of a more fitting word at the moment.

Thanks again!

 

[lizaanne]

Liza - Thank you very much! That is exactly what I was looking for! It is an awesome breakdown of Tolle, Oprah, and New Age Theories. Awesome is probably too weak of a word, but I can’t think of a more fitting word at the moment.

Thanks again!

Glad to help!

There is MUCH more like that - just click the link in my signature.

~Liza

 

[Turlock2]

I can’t for some reason get to Ireka2’s originals statemtent as quoted by JSS in post #10 above to understand it in context, but I have to agree with that statement. I’ve read the book in question and find that Tolle’s premise and conclusions are no different in substance than those of Cardinal Nicolaus of Cusa as refered to here by Marc Anthony and agreed to by Tonyrey in the next post.

I think that the problem here is a misunderstanding of the nature of mysticism as distinct from a problem regarding Tolle’s allignment with Catholicism as it is ordinarily understood by the laity. Meister Eckhart, the Catholic monk from whom Tolle unfotunatley lifted his name says very similar things as well, and that may be why Tolle took his name as an homage. In fact, if you read many of the Catholic mystics with some scrutiny, you may very well find for yourself that the alarmism around Tolle is greatly exagerated and such comments as we find above are just throwing gasoline on a fire that doesnt’ deserve that much attention.

So if you don’t like Tolle, go read St. Francis, or St Theresa of Avila, or St. John of the Cross, or St. Catherine of Sienna, or many such others. And if you find those of some useful guidace, then sometime you might also read their brothers and sisters who are not Roman Catholics. So if you think you have doubts, or are that weak in your faith, don’t bother with Tolle. If you are secure, you can do some comparisons and make some interesting discoveries, provided you don’t impose your prejudice on his words as is most likely. Maybe before reading anything, even the Gospels, it might be good for all of us to go get a copy of Mortimer J. Adler’s How to Read a Book and thus armed start from page one of both the Bible and the catechism.

 

[winagain]

The funny thing which you will not find out unless you read his work and actually THINK is that Tolle has no stake in changing your mind about yours, or anyone’s religion. That is not the province of his work. He is trying to point our something about the nature of your awareness itself that is always already the case; you just don’t notice it. It is like the kind of puzzle where you have to find the 10 Presidents in the picture. They are right in front of your eyes, but you don’t see them until you look specifically with the intent of seeing them. But pious people who have little strength of faith get in a knot about thinking about how they themselves work when they don’t think clearly, so Tolle is a huge threat to them. Go figure.

There are other threads on here that discuss this point quite clearly. Go read them.

 

[edwest2]

The funny thing which you will not find out unless you read his work and actually THINK is that Tolle has no stake in changing your mind about yours, or anyone’s religion. That is not the province of his work. He is trying to point our something about the nature of your awareness itself that is always already the case; you just don’t notice it. It is like the kind of puzzle where you have to find the 10 Presidents in the picture. They are right in front of your eyes, but you don’t see them until you look specifically with the intent of seeing them. But pious people who have little strength of faith get in a knot about thinking about how they themselves work when they don’t think clearly, so Tolle is a huge threat to them. Go figure.

There are other threads on here that discuss this point quite clearly. Go read them.

No need to read them. Mr. Tolle is not offering anything new.

God bless,
Ed

 

[winagain]

Thanks Ed, for confirming what I’m trying to point out. I see that you have actually read and critiqued Tolle’s and other’s work in this arena. What the non dualists have been trying to point out has been so since there was Man. And if any care to understand what it is, without risking their faith, you will find an exact correspondency in his work with the Identity statements in both the OT and NT. I appreciate your support.

 

[edwest2]

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

To my brothers and sisters in Christ. Oprah Winfrey has been deceived and Eckhart Tolle has contributed to this deception:

youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkgmqA

May God have mercy on us,
Ed

 

[winagain]

God has far more than mercy on us. And all I’m saying is that if you had an actual useful clue about what Tolle is saying you wouldn’t have yourself in a knot about it.

It reminds me of the time I went to a lecture and had to pass by a vitriolic group of protesters. I asked them if they had read the speaker’s work (No, it wasn’t Tolle; it was a political speaker.) Each one I asked said “No, but we were told what hes says.” Well, I still wanted to hear what the speaker had to say and I went in. I had to do kind of a double-take, because in fact, in words and through questioning it was clear that he had the same take on the issue as the protesters outside! When I went out and reported this to the protesters, they were in such a lather that they couldn’t put together what I was saying with what they were protesting and defuse it.

So that is the similar picture I see before me of all the lather on here about Tolle, whom I have read and guarantee is not saying what you think he is. As it is you don’t seem to be able to go past your prejudices. That is fine, if you so wish, but you are causing unnecessary and wasteful turbulence.

 

[edwest2]

Jesus Christ established the one, holy, Catholic (Universal) and Apostolic Church, not Oprah. I wish people could understand the constant repackaging and rebranding of the Same Old Thing ™ that has occurred for Centuries! “Hey. There’s no one way to God. There’s plenty of ways.” Jesus never taught that.

I’m reminded of the recent nonsense with Shirley MacLaine. This is just more of the same.

Peace,
Ed

 

[winagain]

I’m sorry, but what in the name of heaven does this have to do with Oprah’s dawdling about something she obviously doesn’t get? This is what I’m talking about Edwest2. Oprah doesn’t know a whit about Tole’s actual meaning and though she got a lot of books sold, that doesn’t mean she knows what they are about. Tolle is NOT abut you changing your religion! Jeeemmenies! And please don’t bring Shirley into this. It’s a mess already.

 

[Rachel_1]

This is an awesome show about Oprah, and also Eckhart Tolle, and the New Age Movement, and what it all means to Catholics. The One True Faith

Very disturbing - and no Catholic should have anything to do with this garbage.

~Liza

It’s the honey in the tea -Oprah
It’s the poison in the koolaid -Voris
Classic!

 

[lizaanne]

It’s the honey in the tea -Oprah
It’s the poison in the koolaid -Voris
Classic!

I’m sorry? I’m not quite sure I understand that comment. Can you please clarify?

~Liza

 

[Rachel_1]

I’m sorry? I’m not quite sure I understand that comment. Can you please clarify?

~Liza

LOL you didn’t watch the show you linked? Just quoting

 

[lizaanne]

LOL you didn’t watch the show you linked? Just quoting

I was running the visuals for the production of the show and was probably on a head set with the Producer, I can’t always hear everything that is being said, and it’s been over a year.

Thanks, was just wondering where that came from.

~Liza

 

[Rachel_1]

I was running the visuals for the production of the show and was probably on a head set with the Producer, I can’t always hear everything that is being said, and it’s been over a year.

Thanks, was just wondering where that came from.

~Liza

Oh cool, you work there?

 

[lizaanne]

Oh cool, you work there?

When I can! My husband is Senior Platform Architect for RealCatholicTV.com, so yes, I do spend a lot of time there and work on projects when I can.

~Liza

 

[CardManningFan]

As far as understanding his philosophy, there is no philosophy in either book.

Yes, there is a very bad philosophy in his thinking. His New Ageism is a conglomeration of every bad philosophy and heresy, starting with relativism.

Here are my observations of his or Opera’s errors, after watching this.
Tolle is a:

1. 
   *]quietist, which the Catholic Encyclopedia defines as the “man’s highest perfection consists in a sort of psychical self-annihilation and a consequent absorption of the soul into the Divine Essence even during the present life.” This anti-intellectualism is evidenced when Tolle says: “The important question is not what you believe in; it’s ‘Are you present in the present moment?’”
   *]Luddite (against technology): “Technology amplifies the egoistic dysfunction in human beings.”
   *]relativist (no absolute truth): “The moment you say ‘My belief is true’, and you deny other people’s believes, is when you’ve adopted an ideology.”
   *]anti-dogmatist: “Religion should not be an ideology.” (Catholicism is certainly not just an ideology/philosophy, however.)
   *]anti-apostolic: “hierarchy has the authority” (We Catholics believe in the “one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic” {i.e., hierarchical, papal} Church.)
   *]dualist: There’s an “economy” of negative/positive “energies.”
   *]pantheist: God is the world.
   *]panpsychist (everything is alive): “They don’t see the world around them is vitally alive.”)
   *]syncretist (all religions lead to God): “If you get deep enough in your religion, you all get to the same place.” This denies[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 12:30[/BIBLEDRB][BIBLEDRB]John 6:44[/BIBLEDRB]
   *]Protestant: “The new spirituality is: You are your own best authority.”
   *]ultra-transcendentalist (that God is unknowable): “absolute indescribable of that which we call God” (cf. Catholic teaching); he also thinks God cannot be named, which is against Catholic teaching as well.
   *]anti-organized religion: Religion cannot “contain God;” “It’s important to join with others but not be dependent on any one group.”
   *]naturalist: Only natural means are necessary for our salvation.
   *]Pelagian: We can save ourselves.
   *]Modernist: We must free ourselves from “old conditioning” (e.g., Catholicism).
   *]Human evolution: He believes human beings fundamentally change over the ages.
   *]Rousseauean: Humans are born perfect, thus he denies original sin.
   *]Egoism: “Just worry about yourself.”[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 4:9[/BIBLEDRB]
   
   …and the list of his heresies goes on and on.
   
   Oprah doesn’t “believe Jesus came to start Christianity;” this totally denies His mission. She also thinks “Jesus was a revolutionary that got misinterpreted a lot;” Jesus was not revolutionary; He was infinitely submissive and meek.
   
   Remember, every heresy has some admixture of truth.
   His focus on
   1. 
      *]nature is reminiscent of[BIBLEDRB]Romans 1:20[/BIBLEDRB]
      *]wonder is good, too; after all, we must “be as little [wondering] children” to enter God’s Kingdom.
      *]the senses is also good. We are sensual beings; that’s why the sacraments are necessary for our salvation.
      *]“living in the present moment” is also taught by Jesus.
      *]how material things cannot ultimately satisfy, because our desire is infinite, is held by Christianity (detachment).
      
      But, unfortunately, Tolle is full of many more very grievous errors.

 

[Gaber]

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

To my brothers and sisters in Christ. Oprah Winfrey has been deceived and Eckhart Tolle has contributed to this deception:

youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkgmqA

May God have mercy on us,
Ed

Yes, I’ve seen this and other exposes of Oprah. They are, generally, excercises in emotionalized misundrstanding. Should you take them seriously? No, not if your Christianity is working for you. Do what you are doing, and you will get those results, just as we all do from our actions.

 

[Gaber]

No need to read them. Mr. Tolle is not offering anything new.

God bless,
Ed

No, and how could he? Any accurate description of how things are in actuality, as distinct from belief, must be as old as God, only put into words as experienced anew by those who do. But even religous beliefs–of any brand–are constantly repeated either with the hope that they are believed or seen through at last. The Teachings of Jesus are in that sense “nothing new.” But they are promulgated, even in ignorance, with the hope of being expereinced anew.

 

[Gaber]

This is from another and concurrent thread on Tolle, one where the OP actually had the common decency to wish to read the accused’s own words in order to assertain his actual stand on things, as distinct from reacting to emotionalized and ignorant opinionating:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikero
…
Question 2:
What did I walk away with?

• An inner peace that grows every day and a deeper understanding of myself and humanity.

How did I get caught up in this approach to spirituality?
Experiencing the depth and joy life that is happening now instead of endlessly reviewing yesterday’s conflicts or tomorrows problems is my preference.

Why did I take the time to write this?
For years I have read negative online posts about the books and noticed that for the most part the claims being made had nothing to do with the books. Your request for (name removed by moderator)ut from someone who was familiar with the content of the books motivated me to clear up some of the confusion. Of course this is just my perspective and may not ring true to everyone.

Have a great day, Mike

Welcome to the fora, Mike!

Thanks for your contribution. Tolle has been the subject of several threads on here, one of them concurreent, I believe, with this one. That is where the Bible-based-Tolle-unread tract following yours comes from.

Hi Mijoy2 If you were to read the other threads mentioned above, you would encounter much reactivity from Catholics. The vast majority of those have neither read the book, nor thought critically on any basis but the need to agree with someone not perceived as a threat to their beliefs whiile supporting their lack of initiative in engaging in some actual critical thinking. I say this from the standpoint of having read both books twice.

My observation is that Tolle is taken as a stand-alone phenomena, though perhaps linked with Deepak Chopra. And certainly Tolle is labeled as a “new age” proponent, whatever the heck conjecture that referes to in the minds of many diverse labelers. I was there in the 60,s and I remember them. And yes, there was a lot of bunkum around, that was as useful as the denunciations of those on here who don’t have a clue to where those unfortunate deteriorations of actual philosophies came from. In other words, none of the decrieres investigated origiins, and neither did the hippies who touted their misunderstandings, save for a few. And even many of those got it wrong or looked for the worng reasons. So, as the critics of that “new agism” rightfully claim about those errors, why bother?

But neither are the reactions of the vast majority on here based on any actual understanding other than definding themselves with misappied dogma from something that is what they always already are anyway. “Curiouser and curiouser,” said Alice.

Tolle, as many others did, had an experience that has come ether through arduous work or by grace, in ours and many other traditions. The expereince, in Catholic terms, is identical in substance due to the fact, if you will, that we are all made in the image and likeness of God. That means believer and atheist alike, and Saint and sinner. All. that cannot be underemphasised.

So while the objections to Tolle and the thousands who say the same thing come from the contents and dynamics of the ordinary rational mind and the state it is commonly in for most humans by far, there is yet another and experiencible dimension to human awarenss. It is the dimension that the Carmalites, for instance, systematically delve into as the pracitce of contemplating Silence. It can be arrived at in some other ways, and that accounts for many non-religious or such having the same experience.

And that is an experience of what the mind is–in a condition of wakeful alertnes, but with no contents whatsoever. In other words, the human awareness is capable of entering and experinceing a state of wakeful Silence. I capitalize that as it is disitinguished from the absence of sound. And that state is the object, intended consciusly or not, of any successful deep meditation or prayer, Catholic or not.

Now to someone who hasn’t experienced this (I have) it seems like a fiction or a fantasy. It was to me before it happened. I could have been anyone else on here saying negatives about what I hadn’'t expereinced. I assure you, emphatically, that it is not a fantasy, illusion, or conjecture. But when someone experiences that state, they have a piece and a peace and a perspective on who and what they actyally are that is not availavble to those who “haven’t been there.”

So when someone, Catholic or not, expereinces that state, they are reasoning out from an understanding that those who havent experienced the state are rationalizing about in an attempt to go to it, even as a concept. But it is not a concept or a logically ascertainable standpoint that is at question, but an actual experiencable state that is part and parcel of the structure of each and evey one’s awareness. But try to tell that to someone who hasn’t a clue what someone who has done that is talking about. They have no referent, as they are stuck, at least for the moment, in their discursive mind. And that discursive mind is the “story teller” that the thousands who tell about the other side of experience refer to as the personality. That personality is distinct from the substance of self.

And that distinction, available and experiencable by anyone who makes the right effort, is what Tolle’s and many library shelves of other author’s books are about. Many even, in my opiinion, correctly claim a congruity with the Teachings of Jesus, But they are pointers, and as like the Bible, the truth of it is not in the paper and ink, but the experience pointed to.

So I find your intention to go to the source admirable, and you will find great opposition from those who derive their sense of self from acquired dogma and precept rather than actually looking at the tool they use for making judgements and finding out some things that are actually rather vital, if one is actually interested in a spiritual life as distinct from mouthing one. You see, when you have that different perspective, the dogma, the precepts, the Bible, all that is instantly new and deeply meaningful. Until then, it is just words memorized or habituated religion. And that is fine, if that is as far as one wishes to go. But I’m with the Carmelites and the other, even non Catholic contemplatives, who have accomplished or been graced by a “blown fuse.” That only means that the part of the mind that talks ceaslessly about limits has shut up for a second so you can see what allows all that talking to happen to begin with!

God blesses you always, whether you ask or not. Trust that you are always in the arms of love. And don’t buy the allegations of the alligators!

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