Ecumenism with Lutherans

[De_Maria]

“From Conflict to Communion” is available on the Vatican’s website for your reading pleasure. That should tell you something.

If you’ve read it, then explain it. I don’t debate by websites or links.

 

[NuclearReceptor]

So he’s advocating for presumption of mercy, since God forgives all sins so might as well sin?

How can someone who claims to have Christ live in him advocate for intentional sin so nonchalantly?

 

[AlNg]

Did you read the whole article? Did you read the part where Luther said that he would sin boldly, but live more boldly, doing as many good works as he could, knowing that it wasn’t him who did it, but Christ Who lived in him? Did you read that, or did you simply read something you could take offense to and maybe score some emotional points?

Wait.
Your link says specifically this " Everything, every single little thing you do in this life, is sin."
I cannot agree with such condemnation of people who are doing charitable work and dedicating their lives to helping others and for you or anyone else to propose that " Everything, every single little thing you do in this life, is sin." is so offensive to these many honorable and decent people, whether they be Christian or not. They are not committing sin and you or whoever says such is absolutely wrong and in total error to say that people who are volunteering and doing charitable work on their own time are committing a sin. This is truly an outrageous and horrible thing to say. Mothers and fathers working hard to bring up their children, by feeding them, helping them with their homework, supporting them in their sports activities, teaching them to play the piano, are you telling me that every little thing that these parents do for their children is a sin? Sorry, but I could never agree with such a teaching.

 

[RandomAlias]

RandomAlias:

Let us pray… that all Christians may be united in faith, hope, and love.

Let us pray instead that all Christians may be united in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church in faith, hope and love.

God Bless

Thank you for reading

Please pardon my irritation and impatience at your astonishing disregard for my prayer (“pray instead”) and your unnecessary amendment of my prayer to show off your “Catholic” pride.

My prayer is sufficient:

• “United in faith” – One God, one truth, one faith. What more need we say?
• “hope” – something sadly lacking among the critics and detractors of ecumenism
• “and love” – including compassion and respect for fellow Christians

Pray as you like, but never “instead” someone else’s prayer or amend it for them.

 

[josh987654321]

“United in faith” – One God, one truth, one faith. What more need we say?

One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? Unless there is One Church there can’t be one faith nor proper unity.

Pray as you like, but never “instead” someone else’s prayer or amend it for them.

It was more of a friendly suggestion.

God Bless

Thank you for reading.

 

[JonNC]

Frankly I am over people being offended by my choice of words.

I’m not offended. You’re an anonymous poster in a chat forum.

Why should I as a Catholic be considerate to you as a Lutheran?

Oh, I don’t know. Maybe because you are reflecting an attitude as a Catholic that the Catholic Church doesn’t approve of. Maybe because it makes you sound like the Protestants who talk that way about Catholics. If you want to sound like them, that’s your choice.

I am talking about the lutherans I know who despise our Church and actively fight against it

How many people on this forum do you know? Your comment was about posters. You said:
Why are there more Lutheran apologists and liars on here than those who defend Catholics?
It wasn’t about people you know.

and I am tired of people on this thread saying I offend them. So what.

So what? So if you’re fine to sound and act just like them, don’t pretend you’re tired of people criticizing you for acting and sounding like them.

Do you not read the Bible that states we should never listen to those who attempt to change the doctrine?

Then why not hang out in the forums not frequented by non-Catholics?

They need to come to us and we will welcome them.

And that would be because you offer such a welcoming tone?

 

[PickyPicky]

It is an irony that posters most irate at Luther’s dissent from the teaching of Rome are, themselves, dissenting from the teaching of Rome. Fortunately such behaviour is somewhat more risk-free today than it was 500 years ago.

 

[NuclearReceptor]

Luther was excommunicated as a heretic, but the Church teaches that present-day protestants are not formal heretics but separated brethren who unfortunately have to live with the consequences of the errors he has propagated throughout the five centuries.

The Church is open to dialog to start with, not as an end. Yes, there is a wall between us but bridges can be formed.

Who is dissenting from the teachings of Rome?

Lutherans cannot give up the Augsburg Confession. Some aspects of the Augsburg Confession are incompatible with the Catholic faith.

We’re sort of at a standstill at the moment, and we hopefully await for the Spirit to, individually and collectively, sort through and dismantle the theological misconceptions that have been erroneously accepted as true.

Luther came up with novel ideas (1500 years after Christianity started) and sold them to millions of unsuspecting clients, leading to harm at worst and reduction in potential good at best.

 

[pnewton]

Why are there more Lutheran apologists and liars on here than those who defend Catholics?

I would say the largest group are Catholics who are opposing the Catholic Church on ecumenism based on their own biased interpretations of what tradition is.

As far as the Lutherans here, when people are insulted, it is to be expected they will respond. Someone likened CAF to the wild west. This is more like secular forums now. Yet even at that, it should not be surprising that there is a large support for the Catholic Church against wolves from the inside. I have threads on instituting the Inquisition and the death penalty for heresy. This sort of foolishness must be responded to by the truth of what the Catholic Church really is.

 

[JonNC]

Gays were perfectly fine before gay “marriage”. Could’ve opted for civil union. But they went for marriage. And the radicals want everyone else to go along with their delusional redefinition of family and gender.

The thing about this is we Christians, all of us, but particularly those of us who support and defend God’s definition of it, have supported government power to oversee marriage. As usually happens when the Church ( all of us) depend on government, this backfired.
The thing we should be lobbying for is getting the government out of the marriage business to start with, beginning with the states.

 

[pnewton]

Why should I as a Catholic be considerate to you as a Lutheran?

Because being offensive is not one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. They are:

love,
joy,
peace,
long-suffering,
kindness,
goodness,
faithfulness,
gentleness,
self-control.

 

[MichaelP3]

You just wrote a lengthy paragraph on how you can’t possibly imagine considering saints as holy because only God is holy.

Your own words, not mine, show unnecessary anxiety about possibly offending God.

I’m not sure I said that. All my responses were “compared” or “in the presence of”. I do think I made that clear.

So if lengthy paragraphs makes you think I say things I didn’t, I’ll summarise it for you…

Compared to God, anything else is a “mere” thing. Their holiness by itself wasn’t even addressed in any of my posts.

Hope that can make more sense to you now.

Not sure what you expect me to say when you do an amateur psychological evaluation on me when that wasn’t even my words. Next I’ll probably have anger issues?

I grew up being taught the same line of reasoning – that since only God is holy, we can’t honor creatures. It’s a common protestant idea. I just happen to experience it first-hand.

Obviously I have no idea how you grew up but I tend to think it’s somewhat different to me. Can’t really recall that was ever even mentioned let alone being “taught” to me.

 

[PickyPicky]

Those who dissent from the teachings of Rome? They would be those who dissent from the teachings of successive Popes, and the PCPCU, on ecumenism.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But don’t you see the massive scandal and heresy this creates? I’ve come across ComplineSanFran before and they are all for same sex marriage, and in their post, they put up a picture of a joint service with those who believe in female ordination at least.

Please discuss the topic at hand, not the poster. Thanks.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Why should I as a Catholic be considerate to you as a Lutheran?

Why should Jesus as a good Jewish man have been considerate to the Romans as pagan gentiles who thought the Jewish religion was hooey, and oppressed and killed Jews on a regular basis?

I thought we were supposed to be acting like him and following his example.

 

[NuclearReceptor]

What are the main teaching points on ecumenism that the posters here are contradicting?

 

[NuclearReceptor]

How do you view God if you are even attempting to explain that? And then I am wrong for stating and I will say it again, no Angel or Saint or even the "ever virgin Mary " can ever be compared to God. They are all servants of God and abide by His requests for whatever and whenever by the simple fact that He is God. I am proclaiming the TOTAL supremacy of the ALL Holy here. Can’t see how that can even be attempted to be challenged. How can anything be disrespected by stating it is inferior to God. That my sir, boggles my mind.

Side note: Your post was quite interesting but it doesn’t do much justice for those ob here trying to claim you are “praying through/to Saints/Mary” and not worshipping them.

Oh and also, blasphemy was the first word coming to my mind when you started to even try and equate ANYTHING to God. But maybe that’s just me. I tend to think God is in His own catagory.

The line of thought: God alone is holy. No creature can be compared to God. No creature should be called holy and venerated since God alone is holy and nothing can be compared to God.

It’s common protestant line of reasoning. It’s based on desire to not offend God, which I suppose is a good thing. Can’t say it’s beneficial because it’s a misconception, but not malicious.

I’m sorry I took things perhaps too literally and personally - I saw things that may not have been there.

What ticked me off was your “ever Virgin Mary” in quotes, as if you’re belittling.

And the last part about blasphemy. Veneration of saints is not blasphemy. We glorify God by honoring His saints who manifest His mercy and goodness.

 

[josh987654321]

Please discuss the topic at hand, not the poster. Thanks.

Fair enough, I should have addressed it to ComplineSanFran first hand rather then in a 3rd person way. @ComplineSanFran my apologies.

I stand by everything I said, but not in the way I said it in that post.

Thank you for reading.

 

[josh987654321]

Perhaps this declaration will help clarify the Vatican’s role in the Reformation Commemoration.

Not really, but thank you for posting it.

I’m not sure how one picture of a Liturgical Event got the ‘hate the gays and women clergy’ discussion going, but oh well.

Because it was posted by yourself, and I remember previous threads where you said that you supported same sex marriage and because we believe marriage is only between a man and a woman, another poster took that as ‘hating gays’.

As for women clergy, it’s in the picture.

God Bless

Thank you for reading

 

[PickyPicky]

A poster just above says that joint services with Lutherans are wrong. The Pope teaches otherwise, and attended and took part in such services himself.

The poster above says showing a picture of Catholic priests attending a service with clergy, including women clergy, of other denominations, promotes heresy. The Pope teaches otherwise by attending a service with, and being photographed with, the woman Primate of the Church of Sweden.