EDITED: Modesty, Dress Code, Etiquette for Church

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Instructions on proper church attire and etiquette from the Immaculate Conception Parish, Novaliches, Philippines - quote from ouricp.org/node/98 :

Reminders for the proper acts of respect inside the church
  1. Let us discipline ourselves to come on time for the Mass and truly participate until the dismissal of the Mass for us to merit grace in its entirety.
  2. Please do maintain silence while in Church specially during the liturgical celebration to give us the opportunity to pray and also to help others also to pray. If there is a need to speak to a neighbour, please do so in a soft and low tone.
  3. Let us diligently listen to the proclamation of the Word of God and the Homily. Let us make our responses with loud and determined manner that comes for our innermost convictions.
  4. Let us keep the Church clean. Do not eat or drink inside the Church.
    5. Observe proper respect and decency on attire while inside the House of God. Shorts; mini-skirts; dresses with plunging neck-line; sleeveless, spaghetti or strapless tops; backless attire are not allowed inside the Church. It is always fashionable to wear a shawl to cover the shoulders.
  5. It is a commendable practice to bring the children to Church. But please do keep them close to your dutiful supervision. Do not allow them to loiter around and make noise that disturb the worshipping community.
  6. Bear in mind that we must be in the state of grace when receiving Holy Communion. If we are in the state of mortal sin, do go to confession first before receiving Holy Communion otherwise we add on to our sins the disrespect to the Sacred Species in sacrilege. Observe the customary Eucharistic Fast an hour before receiving Holy Communion.
  7. It is our duty to care for the objects and furnishings inside the Church. Although these materials have been obtained through the donations from the faithful, we must consider them as already and exclusively dedicated for use in the Divine worship. Thus please understand that they should not and can not be borrowed for private and personal use outside the Church premises.
  8. Please do not be offended when a minister of the Church would call our attention and respectfully remind us of proper respect and actions in the Church. The ministers are doing their duties of keeping order in the liturgical celebration. We should in fact and instead be thankful for these volunteers who guide us through the respectful celebration inside the Church.
  9. Out of obvious courtesy for our neighbour and devout respect for the House of God and the Liturgical celebration, switch off or put to silent mode your cellphones and other disrupting electronic gadgets. Do not use them while inside the Church.
 
Kevin812 said:
We have truly beat this topic in the ground and has become a zombie topic. :eek::eek::eek:

There is NO dress code in the Church. What is modest and/or descent varies significantly.

Less than a 100 years ago it was the tradition of the tribe I am descended from, for the woman entering into a sacred space (church) to be topless (bare breasted). This custom still continues in very specific instances (although not in church any longer). White, Middle-Class Americans seriously need to get over the idea that their cultural dress and actions are superior to everyone else.

Act like Christians [edited].
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I pretty much agree. If there truly was a “one size fits all” in this category, the Church would have written it down by now.

Those who obsess over this issue almost disgust me more than those who dress inappropriately for Mass.
 
Now for something funny - what do our Buddhist hosts expect from us, when visiting Angkor Vat in Cambodia?

Quote from asiantrails.info/index.cfm?menuid=651 :

APSARA AUTHORITY REGULATES DRESS CODE FOR TEMPLES’ VISIT

The Apsara Authority has issued new regulations requiring all visitors to wear **proper attire, which covers the shoulders and knees, when visiting Angkor Vat **(applies to the whole temple and not just for visiting the 3rd floor and on Thngay Sehl, the Buddhist Day), Baphuon and Banteay Srey Temples.

http://www.asiantrails.info/resource/1352/static/newsnov11/cam3.jpg

And what did Fr. Dominic Mary from EWTN tell us about proper attire in a Catholic Church? See here - quote from a previous post:

…please click the link below to watch the youtube video of the homily:

youtube.com/watch?v=PZHECJJbzPM

**To summarize those norms of modesty: “In church, please cover your shoulders and knees.” **

😃

We should just listen to Fr. Dominic Mary, and we won’t be put to shame for dressing immodestly, whether we visit our local Catholic parish in Alabama, St. Peter’s Basilica in Vatican City, or even the historic Buddhist temple Angkor Vat in Cambodia! 😛
 
[edited]

We have posted in this thread, so far, official teachings and instructions from Catholic clergy located in Vatican, Italy, Mexico, the Philippines, various cities in the USA including in California and New Orleans, with their Hispanic and African-American cultures, as well as Croatia, Egypt, Sri Lanka, and Malaysia (also a comparison to Buddhist Cambodia, for a change).

And you say we are obsessing about White Middle-Class American superiority…

What do YOU have to offer to this thread, in terms of official teachings and instructions by Catholic clergy - that is by Catholic popes, bishops, and priests, located anywhere on the planet?

[edited]
 
If we had all stuck to the opening posters’ wishes then no one would have posted because as is being pointed out there is no official guide. Not one of you have managed to point out a CRAM or something for once as is usually the case in discussions on these boards.

I wonder what people think Jesus Christ would wear though no doubt he blend into the crowed may be if God was Pleased with church but if he been sent back to restore the church once again then he may be more shocking to many people.

The Catholic Church likes to tell people what to do so why not be told what to wear too since they seem to think that people are on the whole unsuitably dressed for Services otherwise why have any kind of thing. Personally, if someone has come off the beach and wants to spend a little time in church then I don’t have a problem with that because they are wanting to be with God in church. Surely we should be respecting that rather than say, you naked or indecently dressed you can’t come in. If Church officials do have a problem with that then they should provide shawls for people to wrap themselves up a little and leave the shawl behind when they go rather than demand people to conform. But hey what do you expect, this is the Roman Catholic Church as such we are talking about. You simply have to conform to their desires whether you want to or not because it not about what you want but what the Vatican wants of you. And before anyone waves the Anglican Card at me for being disrepectul, I don’t mean it like that but just reminding the opening poster and anyone who is Catholic in this thread, it don’t actually matter but what the Vatican says goes, regardless to what you may or mayn’t like and what poster works for you or not. Show some maturity about being obedient to the Vatican and you will know in your heart what be allowed and your example will encourage others and provide shawls for those who have acted on impulse and decide to go into church that day. Could be a nice little thing for someone there;)
 
[edited]

I have observed that there is no such animal as official teachings in what constitutes specific dress. In fact, the root of the word “teaching” is the same as doctrine, for that is what doctrine is. Doctrine is precisely what I quoted (the only doctrinal quote so far) from the Catechism. Instructions apply only in the areas in which it is applied. First, there is not instruction from the Pope on dress in Church. Were there to be, this would be a moot issue. Even at St. Peter’s the dress code applies to the St. Peters, not the area outside, which is why there are vendors who sell paper pants and shirts and people are changing clothes in public in order to go inside.

I posted blanks. Were everyone here to post their parishes dress code, I suspect that you would get mostly blanks. If you want, I will start a poll of what dress code everyone has at their parish, not a sampling of anecdotal codes from around the world.

I believe dress to be important at Mass, thought of less importance by far than the state of our interior soul. I do not believe there should be a minimum level of holiness, outward or inward for one to receive the Holy Sacrament. Yet our belief is not relevant in dress. The only relevant opinions are those of the priests who, through subsidiarity, are charged with the pastoral duty to regulate, or not, dress in their parish.

I think it highly important that the vast majority do not. Now I can rail against what I perceive as a failure on their part, or perhaps I can see in this a truth that transcends my own American/European value system.

[edited]
 
Cardinal Francis Arinze (btw, the Cardinal is from Nigeria, Africa - NOT an American White Middle-Class guy suffering of American White Middle-Class superiority complex - that’s really an insult against the catholicity = universality of the Catholic Church, to do this race-baiting on CAF) responds to questions on Liturgy - quote from adoremus.org/1003Arinze.html :

ADOREMUS BULLETIN
Online Edition - Vol. IX, No. 7: October 2003

Cardinal Responds to Questions on Liturgy

Wide-ranging questions on the Liturgy were answered by Cardinal Francis Arinze at a conference in July sponsored by the Apostolate for Family Consecration.

The question and answer session followed Cardinal Arinze’s talk on the meaning of the Eucharist. The cardinal, who has headed the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments since last October, …

**Is it appropriate for a Catholic parish to institute a dress code for Mass that requires minimum standards of modesty? **

That is to demand that people must dress well before they get into the church. Well, it is a question of prudence. Perhaps it can work. Although in the world of today there are some people that are so unreasonable that if you try to push this, sometimes the person operating it gets a nervous breakdown.

However, there are some cases where there is such an offense against modesty that absolutely such people should not be allowed into a church building. Some break all the rules of common sense. But it is not the sort of thing you like to impose from Rome. It is the sort of thing that you like to leave to the good sense of those who look after a particular Church.
 
Thank you to those who shared links and pictures from other places in the world. No one is asking people to show up in finery and dressed to the nines as not all can afford to do so. Nor should people show up to Holy Mass looking better suited to be near a pool or a beach. Showing some sense of decency and modesty for Mass is what is important.

I went to a town near mine that is a tourist attraction in itself. While there, I went to Mass at the local Catholic church. Nice building but some of the ways people dressed for Mass made me think. One family who brought up the gifts at the Offertory, had a teenage girl wearing shorts that made it a few inches below her backside. Another woman who filled in at the last moment as an EMHC was wearing a modest short sleeve shirt but her shorts did not even reach half way between her backside & her knees. A young woman a few pews in front of me was wearing a spaghetti strapped dress that went a few inches below her backside. Several others came in wearing shorts and sleeveless tops. It was hard not to miss them even when I tried not to pay them any attention. Certainly the weather has been hot, but the shorts and dresses could’ve reached the knees in my opinion. I was wearing a sundress that reached my ankles that had medium width straps but I covered up my shoulders with a light weight shawl that I took off once Mass was finished and having reached my car.
 
More from Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship and Sacrament at the Vatican - quote from the Nigerian Village Square website at nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/lounge/22756-gay-child-abuse-indecent-dressing-unacceptable-says-arinze.html :

Gay, Child Abuse, Indecent Dressing Unacceptable, Says Arinze

THE GUARDIAN: Chuks Collins, Awka :Friday, August 29, 2008

NIGERIAN-BORN Prefect, Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship and Sacrament at the Vatican, Francis Cardinal Arinze, has described gay, lesbian lifestyles as well as indecent dressing against divine law and order.

He also said that abuse of children, “whether sexual, physical or mental by whoever person, how much more an ordained priest in any part of the world, remained sacrilegious and unacceptable.”

He had the same reproach for indecent dressings, especially by women, who he noted should not copy whatever the western world throws out.

He observed that dressing has cultural affiliation and identity of a people, adding that what was acceptable in one culture/society was usually not acceptable in another.

On dressings, he cautioned that modesty should remain people’s watchword, noting that he had been to many parts of the world and could rightly say without fear that Nigerian and African dresses look very graceful on the women.

He pointed out that the Catholic Church could not however dictate the mode of dressing for its faithful except those who serve at the alter of God.
 
L_piperatus said:
Cardinal Francis Arinze (btw, the Cardinal is from Nigeria, Africa - NOT an American White Middle-Class guy :
. Well, it is a question of prudence. …But it is not the sort of thing you like to impose from Rome. It is the sort of thing that you like to leave to the good sense of those who look after a particular Church.
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L_piperatus said:
**He observed that dressing has cultural affiliation and identity of a people, adding that what was acceptable in one culture/society was usually not acceptable in another…**He pointed out that the Catholic Church could not however dictate the mode of dressing for its faithful except those who serve at the alter of God.
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I like almost everything I have every read from Cardinal Arinze and this is no exception. He always combines common sense with prudence and pastoral understanding. This is exactly why comparing dress codes from around the world is futile. Rome doesn’t do this. We shouldn’t do this.

I am all for encouraging modesty and holiness in dress at Mass, just like I am for encouraging adherence to Catholic moral teaching. I just do not think in most parishes it is prudent to set either a standard on how far one should have arrived on the journey of faith before they are permitted into the Sanctuary, be it on their inside or outside. Heck, I even support priests who risk offending on this topic to cover it in their parishes to the extent they deem prudent.
 
Crescentinus said:
I’m talking about clothes made of metal.
Also, how about cosplay? o:
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Oh, I had to look up “cosplay” on the internet, and now I have a better idea of what you mean, but I haven’t seen any teachings or instructions by our clergy regarding metal clothes and cosplay.

Historically, metal armors and shirts made of chainlink were definitely legitimate - I have seen many canonized saints depicted wearing chainlink clothes and body armor. But I have no idea whether the Church would regard such clothes today as “too extravagant”, or “a legitimate expression of one’s style and personality”.

At any rate, the Swiss Guards do look rather extravagant in their uniforms, and they are the Pope’s official guards. So, let’s hope there is plenty of latitude for people to wear imaginative and extraordinary clothes, without the risk of committing a sin! 😃
 
L_piperatus said:
Oh, I had to look up “cosplay” on the internet, and now I have a better idea of what you mean, but I haven’t seen any teachings or instructions by our clergy regarding metal clothes and cosplay.

Historically, metal armors and shirts made of chainlink were definitely legitimate - I have seen many canonized saints depicted wearing chainlink clothes and body armor. But I have no idea whether the Church would regard such clothes today as “too extravagant”, or “a legitimate expression of one’s style and personality”.

At any rate, the Swiss Guards do look rather extravagant in their uniforms, and they are the Pope’s official guards. So, let’s hope there is plenty of latitude for people to wear imaginative and extraordinary clothes, without the risk of committing a sin! 😃
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Thanks. 🙂

How about those with little or no clothing? o:
 
pnewton said:
I like almost everything I have every read from Cardinal Arinze and this is no exception. He always combines common sense with prudence and pastoral understanding. This is exactly why comparing dress codes from around the world is futile. Rome doesn’t do this. We shouldn’t do this.

I am all for encouraging modesty and holiness in dress at Mass, just like I am for encouraging adherence to Catholic moral teaching. I just do not think in most parishes it is prudent to set either a standard on how far one should have arrived on the journey of faith before they are permitted into the Sanctuary, be it on their inside or outside. Heck, I even support priests who risk offending on this topic to cover it in their parishes to the extent they deem prudent.
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I acknowledge that norms of modesty may differ in different parts of the world. But the Vatican still saw it fit to post a dress code and vigorously enforce it. I have also posted about churches elsewhere in Rome, Italy, Europe, where the priests expelled people who were not dressed modestly. And many churches in the USA posted dress codes as well. For example, the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament in Hanceville, Alabama. They will loan you a sweater if you need it, but they won’t let you in if you are not dressed modestly. Also, Cardinal Arinze himself said in his interview that there are absolutely cases when people must be blocked from entering the church.

So, I do not see it futile to learn what are the required norms of modesty in various parts of the world, and I will continue posting those norms, per the teachings and instructions issued by bishops and priests located in those areas.

Also, I have seen people post pictures like the one below and then argue that anything goes everywhere, which is ridiculous. Yes, being topless is approved by the Church in Papua New Guinea, but it is not approved in the USA, it is not approved in Europe, and I have the official guidelines from our clergy to show that you can’t enter a church in the USA, or in Europe, while being topless.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I have teaching documents and guidelines from bishops and priests in Texas, California, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, Oregon, DC, Virginia, and so on, and yes I will post them for the benefit of those who want to know: This is how you are supposed to dress for visiting God’s House in the USA, this is what you are expected to cover, these are the limits of what can be exposed and what’s forbidden to be exposed, per the specific teachings and guidelines we received from our bishops and priests here in the USA.
 
L_piperatus said:
I have teaching documents and guidelines from bishops and priests in Texas, California, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, Oregon, DC, Virginia, and so on, and yes I will post them for the benefit of those who want to know:
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There may not be as much disagreement in reality as in terms. For example, what you are posting are not teaching documents, in the sense that they are not doctrine. When I think of teaching, it is doctrine that comes to mind. Also, the post title deals with three very different subjects, although they are related. Modesty: there is universal teaching on this. Ettiquette: this is informal and may exist totally apart from church teaching and even sin. Dress code: this is a tool used sparingly by priests and bishops, but as Cardinal Arinze points out, can have a place.

I would think that anyone who supports such a code for their parish would ideally have the charity that they would give up their coat or shirt to a brother or sister who needed to attend Mass.
 
This is how modesty is understood and enforced in Bohol, the Philippines - quote from momworkaholic.com/2010/11/proper-attire-inside-a-church.html :

Proper Attire inside a Church

Written on November 25, 2010 by admin in Uncategorized

What I have learned from our recent trip to Bohol is on how much they stressed out the proper attire inside a church. They are very strict most especially on wedding dresses. Our tour guide shared how much people would scrutinize your whole getup when you attend a Holy Mass. The priest won’t even give you communion if what you wear isn’t one of the proper attires inside the church. They even have posters of the proper and improper attire outside the church to remind everyone. That’s how much strict they are in Bohol.



And what I noticed most inside the church is that, people pay attention to what the priest says. You cannot hear anyone talking to their seatmates about laptop warranty or what nots.
 
pnewton said:
There may not be as much disagreement in reality as in terms. For example, what you are posting are not teaching documents, in the sense that they are not doctrine. When I think of teaching, it is doctrine that comes to mind. Also, the post title deals with three very different subjects, although they are related. Modesty: there is universal teaching on this. Ettiquette: this is informal and may exist totally apart from church teaching and even sin. Dress code: this is a tool used sparingly by priests and bishops, but as Cardinal Arinze points out, can have a place.

I would think that anyone who supports such a code for their parish would ideally have the charity that they would give up their coat or shirt to a brother or sister who needed to attend Mass.
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Yeah, for my purpose even the Workaholic Mom’s blog post is a “teaching document”, inasmuch as she took a picture of the Bohol (Philippines) church’s poster on the dress code, and because she describes that priests are very strict in Bohol, especially regarding wedding dresses, and will refuse communion to people who are not dressed modestly. For me, this is a “teaching document” because I believe she didn’t make this all up, I believe she is describing the real attitude of priests in Bohol, regarding modesty! 😃

I will be also happy to provide a bunch of clean sweaters and other modest clothing items in good condition, to my parish, if that’s what it takes to solve this crisis of immodesty. The Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament in Hanceville, Alabama has that - it will loan modest clothes to any tourists who wish to enter the church, but are not dressed modestly. 🙂
 
pnewton said:
By “snarky” do you mean in dissent of your opinion?

And by “useful” do you mean useful to your opinion?

I have made no accusations. I have observed that there is no such animal as official teachings in what constitutes specific dress. In fact, the root of the word “teaching” is the same as doctrine, for that is what doctrine is. Doctrine is precisely what I quoted (the only doctrinal quote so far) from the Catechism. Instructions apply only in the areas in which it is applied. First, there is not instruction from the Pope on dress in Church. Were there to be, this would be a moot issue. Even at St. Peter’s the dress code applies to the St. Peters, not the area outside, which is why there are vendors who sell paper pants and shirts and people are changing clothes in public in order to go inside.

I posted blanks. Were everyone here to post their parishes dress code, I suspect that you would get mostly blanks. If you want, I will start a poll of what dress code everyone has at their parish, not a sampling of anecdotal codes from around the world.

I believe dress to be important at Mass, thought of less importance by far than the state of our interior soul. I do not believe there should be a minimum level of holiness, outward or inward for one to receive the Holy Sacrament. Yet our belief is not relevant in dress. The only relevant opinions are those of the priests who, through subsidiarity, are charged with the pastoral duty to regulate, or not, dress in their parish.

I think it highly important that the vast majority do not. Now I can rail against what I perceive as a failure on their part, or perhaps I can see in this a truth that transcends my own American/European value system.

If the moderator here wishes to allow a thread for the promotion of dress codes in Churches without discussion, I will stop. However, it would surprise me as charitable discussion is the nature of this place. I will stand that none of my posts here have lacked charity and none have been snarky, except seen through a very narrow lens. Yet the nature of Catholicism should always strive for universality, not narrowness.
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This is an excellent post.
 
I offered a shawl to someone when she was going up for communion. She was very happy/ relieved.
 
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