(Edited Title) Feminist Christians & logic…

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Wouldn’t it be at least as reasonable then-if not more so- to call the Holy Spirit “Cletus”?

My mom was at a parish bible study conducted by a liberal nun some time ago who kept referring to the Holy Spirit as “Sophia” and going on to refer to the Holy Spirit using feminine pronouns. I rolled my eyes when I heard that!

But then I got to thinking: I know she’s got a point there, after all God does not possess wisdom; He IS Wisdom. And the Greek word for wisdom is sophia. So I thought to myself what other words are used to describe the Holy Spirit? Then I remembered-correct me if I’m wrong here- the first explicit reference to the Holy Spirit in Sacred Scripture is when Jesus said that he would send his Apostles the Paraclete. Then I thought, well we use a Latin name for the second person of the Trinity (we call him Jesus, not Yeshua) what would be the Latin word for Paraclete? Paracletus, right? So “Cletus” for short. Though it is not nearly as common as a name as it was 100 years ago, Cletus is indeed a man’s name.

So in short, had I been in that bible study class with that liberal nun and I heard her refer to the Holy Spirit as “Sophia”, I would respond by calling Him Cletus and use masculine pronouns.

What do the rest of you think? Illogical? Disrespectful?
 
spangler1982 said:
Wouldn’t it be at least as reasonable then-if not more so- to call the Holy Spirit “Cletus”?

My mom was at a parish bible study conducted by a liberal nun some time ago who kept referring to the Holy Spirit as “Sophia” and going on to refer to the Holy Spirit using feminine pronouns. I rolled my eyes when I heard that!

But then I got to thinking: I know she’s got a point there, after all God does not possess wisdom; He IS Wisdom. And the Greek word for wisdom is sophia. So I thought to myself what other words are used to describe the Holy Spirit? Then I remembered-correct me if I’m wrong here- the first explicit reference to the Holy Spirit in Sacred Scripture is when Jesus said that he would send his Apostles the Paraclete. Then I thought, well we use a Latin name for the second person of the Trinity (we call him Jesus, not Yeshua) what would be the Latin word for Paraclete? Paracletus, right? So “Cletus” for short. Though it is not nearly as common as a name as it was 100 years ago, Cletus is indeed a man’s name.

So in short, had I been in that bible study class with that liberal nun and I heard her refer to the Holy Spirit as “Sophia”, I would respond by calling Him Cletus and use masculine pronouns.

What do the rest of you think? Illogical? Disrespectful?
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The Hebrew word for “spirit” (the spirit God moved on the face of the waters…) is ruah, which is feminine. I have no idea about girlie names but it was very clear that the spirit of God was referred to with feminine nouns in Hebrew. Now I don’t know about calling the Holy Spirit Sophia, that seems blasphemous to me…because in French, Spanish and many other languages there are words that are feminine…inanimate objects like table or chair and such (not sure about those but my son assures me that many “objects” are masculine or feminine) and obviously that doesn’t mean the table is a girl. Just because there’s a history in Hebrew of the Spirit of God having a feminine noun to describe it doesn’t mean that the Holy Spirit is female. I stick with what the Church says to call the Triune God and people can keep their annoying inclusive language to themselves.

Lorrie
 
I don’t know if this is what the presenter described was attempting to do, but be aware that some with a feminist agenda are trying to find a way to slip in a little goddess worship with those kinds of verbal gymnastics. Just sayin’.
 
Feminist Christians? Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? After all God is a pure spirit, doesn’t have a physical body or gender?
 
I would FAINT if I ever heard the most adorable Holy Spirit referred to as “Sophia”.

I saw an “icon” made by (very progressive) Friar, and it was titled “the Christsophia”. Yes, it was the Holy Spirit - feminine.

How absolutely ridiculous. In my best Victor Meldrew I gasped “I don’t believe IT!”:eek:

But to answer your question, no, it wouldn’t, because even though the word used is feminine, God is pure spirit.
 
Ok, first off God is male, has always been male, and will always be male in origin. He is not called the Heavenly Father for no reason. God is not an essence or an angel, He is a supernatural being.He is not a diety, not a meditation or imagined feminine natured being. God is male. Christ was and is male, therefore the Holy Spirit is male.
You cannot have different sexes assigned to one triune God. If the three are one, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then they are all male. It makes no sense to assign a feminine soul to Jesus who was God Incarnate and a male. That denies God’s true nature. God cannot and will not deceive or pretend to be something that He is not. God therefore is not female, and should never be assigned a feminine title. The bible states this very clearly, over and over again in Scripture and verse.

Peace to you,👍
 
No, but I would even the score by insisting on referring to the nun as “they”.
 
Cletus is a saint’s name, short for “Anacletus”. One of our first popes was named Cletus, and he shows up in the Roman Canon (eucharistic prayer numero uno). The name means “called upon, invoked”.

“Paracletus”, “Paraclitus”, and “Paraclytus” are all acceptable Latin transliterations of the Greek term. It means “defense lawyer, helper, comforter, person who speaks for you, person you can call to your side for help”.

Some Cletuses are really a Kleitos or Klytos (“glory”).
 
Bernadette173 said:
Ok, first off God is male, has always been male, and will always be male in origin. He is not called the Heavenly Father for no reason. God is not an essence or an angel, He is a supernatural being.He is not a diety, not a meditation or imagined feminine natured being. God is male. Christ was and is male, therefore the Holy Spirit is male.
You cannot have different sexes assigned to one triune God. If the three are one, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then they are all male. It makes no sense to assign a feminine soul to Jesus who was God Incarnate and a male. That denies God’s true nature. God cannot and will not deceive or pretend to be something that He is not. God therefore is not female, and should never be assigned a feminine title. The bible states this very clearly, over and over again in Scripture and verse.

Peace to you,👍
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I don’t agree. God is a pure Spirit and therefore has no body and no gender. The terminolgy in what God has revealled to us is phrased so we could understand and know about God better. Father signifies for us that God is the creator and beginning of all things and life. An eternal and infinite being is hard for our human minds to grasp so things were put in ways we could more easily understand. God became a human man in order to fulfill the divine plan for our salvation. Jesus was a man and spirit with two natures, one divine and one human. The Holy Spirit the expression of love of the Father for the Son personified is a pure spirit with no body or gender.
 
The word Sophia has long been associated with the Holy Spirit. Even some Catholic artists write songs dedicated to Sophia (as the holy spirit). Many of the mystics used this word (which means wisdom) to refer to the Holy Spirit and I don’t find it to be sacrilegious or goddess worship. I don’t use it myself, but I think it’s important to realize that is’ not something new and has been around for a long time.
In Roman Catholic mysticism, Hildegard of Bingen celebrated Sophia as a cosmic figure in both her writing and her art. Sophia, in Catholic theology, is the Wisdom of God, and is thus eternal.
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Cletus it is. “Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus…” As St. Maximillian Kolbe pointed out, the Virgin Mary, wisdom personified, is united with the Holy Spirit in spousal unity; hence her ability to be entitled in an absolute like God–“I AM the Immaculate Conception.” She’s not God, but she share spousal unity with divinity as we all will when Christ returns for His Bride, the Church.

So let’s “hear and obey” God’s will for us: “I wish to establish in the world devotion to the Immaculate Heart,” the Fatima message. So let’s get devoted. Let’s pray and work for purity of intent. Pure hearts best show honor and devotion to the Immaculate Heart. Let’s perform the Five First Saturdays devotions in reparation for the affronts to the Immaculate Heart. This is all approved by the Church and may not be to the liking of the Opposition Defiance Disorder/ODD-driven sophistries of the Sophians.

Blessed Virgin Mary, pierced with a sword of sorrow that the thoughts of all may be revealed, expose all thoughts; cleansing them in the fire of love which is your Son Jesus Christ’s Sacred Heart. AMEN
 
spangler1982 said:
So in short, had I been in that bible study class with that liberal nun and I heard her refer to the Holy Spirit as “Sophia”, I would respond by calling Him Cletus and use masculine pronouns.
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For what purpose? Also, we usually capitalize “Bible.” Why would you think the Holy Spirit is absent from Scripture until the New Testament?

God has no gender, so what difference does it make to you what gender pronouns someone uses? God isn’t a “he” any more than a “she” so why is this a big deal to you?
 
Irishgal49 said:
The Hebrew word for “spirit” (the spirit God moved on the face of the waters…) is ruah, which is feminine. Just because there’s a history in Hebrew of the Spirit of God having a feminine noun to describe it doesn’t mean that the Holy Spirit is female. I stick with what the Church says to call the Triune God and people can keep their annoying inclusive language to themselves.

Lorrie
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Yes, yet I’ve felt that the Holy Spirit with a more maternal aspect of the Triune.
 
When I saw this thread what I was thinking of was Joyce Rupp’s works, which have gone more in a feminist and new age direction in recent years. I used to be a fan of hers, and I don’t want to be assuming the worst, but her “Prayers to Sophia” “Circle of Life” and “Cosmic Dance” even though aesthetically appealing, contain some elements that IMO are skating pretty close to neo-paganism. YMMV.

joycerupp.com/PrayersToSophia.html
 
Bernadette173 said:
Ok, first off God is male, has always been male, and will always be male in origin. He is not called the Heavenly Father for no reason. God is not an essence or an angel, He is a supernatural being.He is not a diety, not a meditation or imagined feminine natured being. **God is male. Christ was and is male, therefore the Holy Spirit is male. **
You cannot have different sexes assigned to one triune God. If the three are one, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then they are all male. It makes no sense to assign a feminine soul to Jesus who was God Incarnate and a male. That denies God’s true nature. God cannot and will not deceive or pretend to be something that He is not. God therefore is not female, and should never be assigned a feminine title. The bible states this very clearly, over and over again in Scripture and verse.

Peace to you,👍
Click to expand...
Assuming we accept your premise:
Doesn’t that mean that men are automatically more Godly?
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Assuming we accept your premise:
Doesn’t that mean that men are automatically more Godly?
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I think the problem is the premise is faulty. The Father is male, and Christ is male. That does not meant that God is aligned with males. The Bible says that male and female were both created in God’s image. Not just one or the other. God is neither male nor female, but God. The Holy Spirit IS the love that exists in the Holy Trinity, and has many female attributes. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that and it does not take away from the ‘maleness’ of the Father or the Son.
 
Why not call the female Holy Spirit “Betty”, or “Marge”?

In fact, the Pope could run a contest.
 
spangler1982 said:
Wouldn’t it be at least as reasonable then-if not more so- to call the Holy Spirit “Cletus”?

My mom was at a parish bible study conducted by a liberal nun some time ago who kept referring to the Holy Spirit as “Sophia” and going on to refer to the Holy Spirit using feminine pronouns. I rolled my eyes when I heard that!

But then I got to thinking: I know she’s got a point there, after all God does not possess wisdom; He IS Wisdom. And the Greek word for wisdom is sophia. So I thought to myself what other words are used to describe the Holy Spirit? Then I remembered-correct me if I’m wrong here- the first explicit reference to the Holy Spirit in Sacred Scripture is when Jesus said that he would send his Apostles the Paraclete. Then I thought, well we use a Latin name for the second person of the Trinity (we call him Jesus, not Yeshua) what would be the Latin word for Paraclete? Paracletus, right? So “Cletus” for short. Though it is not nearly as common as a name as it was 100 years ago, Cletus is indeed a man’s name.

So in short, had I been in that bible study class with that liberal nun and I heard her refer to the Holy Spirit as “Sophia”, I would respond by calling Him Cletus and use masculine pronouns.

What do the rest of you think? Illogical? Disrespectful?
Click to expand...
…in our oh so liberal world Good is bad and bad/monster is good…

Did Jesus call His Father anything else but Father?

Did Jesus say I will send you another Paraclete… and he/she will do x?

…this is why I am skeptical when it comes to scholars and theologeans… they seem bent on reinventing the wheel not for the praise of God but for the glory of their ego… Cleric, Religious, laity or even angels professing a different Gospel than Christ’s is nothing more/better than an usurper: an anti-Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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