Edited Title: Is this a Marian deception?

[Roman_Catholic_1]

St.Hilarious isnt Catholic… Here is a run down of his greatest posts from the CARM forums:

Any attention given to Mary is not called for by Jesus and the RCC is full of giving unwanted attention to Mary.

Mary is your dead medium. Any communication with mediums attrack the wrath of God and curses follow. You are suffering from a darkened mind and need to repent in order to get rid of your confusion.

They (He is talking about Catholics) also ignore the advice Jesus gave them to pray to our Father in heaven.

Mary certainly comes between the believer and God. Mariology is an impediment regarding contact with God. God is appalled by the attention given which should be given to Him. Jesus told his apostles to pray to the Father and RCs totally ignore this teaching and turn their attention elsewhere.

Once you have found the truth in Jesus, then there is no need to look at the teachings of the RCC as they do not make sense.

Most RCs are confused. nt

And of course my personal favorite:

C.Answers bans free speech and one is not to say anything against the RCC. Why is the C.A.forum so afraid of being challenged? Because the have something to hide. If the RCC started to preach the truth tomorrow they would lose all credibility as the have been preaching their OWnN tradition for so long,. Believers would no longer trust them if they were to change their spots.

Just so everyone has an idea of what we are going to be dealing with here.

God Bless

 

[corvidae]

We ban free speech and then let him say so much.?
What is wrong with us here.?
Where are the moderators and why are they not out banning free speech.?



ummm, I do know they ban rude and fighting speech, perhaps that is SH definition of free.

I would like to know why he is discouraging people from coming to CA. I mean, even in this thread, it was trying to be civilized.

 

[NotWorthy]

St. I don’t think you should refer to “we”

You may ignore Jesus teaching and turn to Mary,
But WE Roman Catholics accept Christ teaching, even accepting Mary as our Mother.

I believe you have not been Catholic in some time St. Hilarious, so how can you refer to we the Roamn Catholic people?

A lone Raven

p.s.- I base this on discussion with you on other threads and other boards, it is not just an out of the blue assumption

If this is St. Hilarious from CARM, he (or is it she) was born and raised Catholic. Went to Catholic School (if I recall correctly), and knows enough about the Catholic Church to know EVERYTHING that is wrong with us.

 

[Darrel]

Mary is your dead medium. Any communication with mediums attrack the wrath of God and curses follow. You are suffering from a darkened mind and need to repent in order to get rid of your confusion.

Funny,

I used to agree with this as a protestant. Then I understood that I had a darkened and confused mind because I actually believed that Jesus would allow his children to exist in one of 20,000 different protestant Churches.

A house divided against it’s self can not stand. By attacking Christ’s church you are only further dividing his house. The only reason it stands at all is because Jesus promised that it would. Tell me what loving father would allow his children to live in confusion and tell them many different versions of the truth. Your version is only one of many. Your so busy busy calling Catholics idolaters over Mary that you can’t even see that you yourself are part of the problem.

Why should I believe the authority of your private interpretation of scripture any more then David Koresh?

-D

 

[HailMary]

**John asked:

"I know this is off topic, but what in the world does that mean? I thought Mary was only regarded as one of the saints. If Mary is in heaven, how could she be in someone’s soul while residing in heaven unless she was deity and had the same power as God with the Holy Spirit?

just asking…"

regarding
“When the Holy Spirit finds Mary in a soul, He flies to it. He enters therein and communicates Himself to that soul in abundance.”
~St. Louis Grignion de Montfort
"

and I replied

"With God, all things are possible. Mary is not someone you learn about, she is someone you experience her. Beg her Son for this.

“When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he said to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. After that, he said to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.” John 19:26-27

In the Gospel according to St. John this disciple is unnamed is because that diciple is you.

The mere fact that it is recorded in the Holy Bible that Jesus gave us His mother, at the most powerful moment in Jesus’ triumph over the Devil, can only be something perpetual, not just some temporal thing. If it truly was just temporal, why did the Holy Spirit instruct St. John to insert it there? Do you really think that would make sense on God’s part?"

I further said,
“I believe what St. Louis had in mind is that, just as the Holy Spirit takes delight when He dwells in Our Lady, He will also take delight in a soul that is in love with Her.”

and bibleApologist started the thread.

to expound on what I said, consider the following:

When St. Louis said, “When the Holy Spirit finds Mary in a soul…” this language is intimate and familial. We are all connected to the Lord through His mystical body.

Have you ever been in love with someone? If you are in love with someone then that person is therefore a part of you. One of Gods attribute is Love; it is the fabric of our existence.

St. Louis is asserting, in his usual genius, that the most effective way for your soul to unite with God is through the Blessed Virgin Mary. Jesus came to the world through Mary so it only makes sense that we should come to Jesus through Mary also. I claim this is Jesus’ will. Read “True Devotion to Mary” by St. Louis for a longer discourse on this.

Hail -]Highly Favored One/-] Full of Grace

 

[TobyLue]

As far as Catholics being deceived by the devil pretending to be Mary, that is a possibility of course. He is cunning, we all know that.

Especially if in any apparitions Our Blessed Mother tells the seer to not wait for approval from the Vatican because she knows how slow the Vatican is to approve apparations. Also requesting that the seer not have any contact with the local Bishop or starts asking for $$$… To me that thing about asking for $$ is hilarious. Maybe if BA comes back and elucidates on his question. “Is this Mary a devil?” begs the question, which Mary is he referring to. The one we know from scripture; the one we know from approved apparitions or simply sombody claiming they see Mary in a vision. Of course those will not be discussed here.
But I hope enough has been posted for BA to understand what the true teachings of the CC are regarding Our Lovely Lady, The Mother of God, our and HIS mother.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Pax vobiscum!

I can see it now. bibleapologist dies, goes up to Heaven and meets Jesus. Jesus goes through the judgment list.

Jesus: “You believed in me and preached the Gospel message, good. You helped that old lady across the street, good. You were charitable to the poor, good. But…what was that you said about my mother?”

Have any of you ever known a Jewish man who stood for his mother being insulted?

In Christ,
Rand

The only person I would ever allow to insult my mother (aside from myself) is my younger brother. I love my mom, as any sane creature does. Jesus, as a fully human being, surely loves his mother. And since he didn’t sin, he surely “honored his father AND mother” perfectly.

 

[valient_Lucy]

St Paul claims that he knew the word of God fully.
Col.1:25 I became its servant according to God’s commission that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery that has been hidden throughout the ages and generations but has now been revealed to his saints.

Paul does not recommend praying to Mary. Why not?

You’re assuming that Mary was in heaven during Paul’s writings, and not living on earth. If she was living on earth, do you think that Paul or the Apostles would hesitate to ask for her prayers?

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

From Post #13:

Eighty some-odd posts later…

:yawn:

and still not a anti-Marian post of any substance that has not been refuted.
Blackie

 

[Truthstalker]

and still not a anti-Marian post of any substance that has not been refuted.
Blackie

BA will have a lot to wade through when he gets back on line. A lot has been posted in his absence. I don’t think SH has been back either.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Supplications are to be made FOR all men. Does the Magisterium tell you that supplications are to be made TO all men?

Catholics believe that we have a responsibillity, and a privelige, to pray for one another. Catholics believe that the saints in heaven do not rest from this responsibillity, but rather take it up with even greater zeal.
The saints in heaven have a perfect love for God. As a result, they also have a perfect love for us on earth. They are also in constant communication with God, since they are in heaven. During their communication, they do not ignore those of us who are still on earth. Rather, their love prompts them to ask God constantly to give us every grace we need to join them in heaven.

 

[valient_Lucy]

He probably has a life!

LOL! How true! I wish I could say the same for myself!
Church Militant;1540072:

Hey… I could be wrong. (It sure wouldn’t be a first!) Somehow, I just don’t think BA ever considered just how offensive a title like this is to Catholics.

I hope I’m right.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

Yeah, let’s hope so. Though I can’t believe that he would have no idea. Of course, we could test the idea, and go to CARM and post a thead called, “The Bible Was Written by Satan!” and see what happens. But I wouldn’t do that. Mostly because I don’t post there.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Do I have to pray to Mary in order to be acceptable by Jesus?

No.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I am not trying to stop you to pray to Mary. I would like to know if loving and honouring Mary is against the first commandment, where we are instructed to honour and love God with all our strenght. If you are honouring God with all your strenght, how do you have strenght left to honour Mary?

I could easily ask you, “If you are honoring and loving God with all your strength, how do you have strenth left to honor and love your family?”

The strength to love others comes from our love of God. And our love of others demonstrates and encourages our love of God.

 

[bibleapologist]

Hailmary,

Well, alot has been said in 24 hours, on both sides of the fence.

I am not going to rehash all the arguments and repudiations that have been made… I will say that St. Hilarious made some very good scriptural arguments against Marianism.

I do believe that you touched on the basis of our contention against Marianism in your previous post…

St. Louis is asserting, in his usual genius, that the most effective way for your soul to unite with God is through the Blessed Virgin Mary. Jesus came to the world through Mary so it only makes sense that we should come to Jesus through Mary also. I claim this is Jesus’ will

St. Louis’ statement (in bold) is not in any way scriptural, or reasonable… and defies the person and work of Jesus Christ and His death, burial and resurrection. The words of Jesus Himself in the garden of Gethsemane testify that to be “one” with Christ is to be “unified” with the Father…

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

To be “in” Christ, is to be unified with the Father

John
www.gideonsword.net

 

[HailMary]

If you have a keen eye in Holy Scripture you will see just how important and glorious the Blessed Virgin Mary is.

She is the Living Ark of the Covenant. Do you know what the Ark of the Covenant meant to the choosen people, the people of God? Do you know how big of a role it played in the Divine Pedagagy which God used?

The Ark had two Golden Cherubim angels, looking at each other, and spreading their wings. The Ark was central in the way God communicated to the people of Isreal through Moses:

Exoodus 25:22. Thence will I give orders, and will speak to thee over the propitiatory, and from the midst of the two cherubims, which shall be upon the ark of the testimony, all things which I will command the children of Israel by thee.

I assert that Mary is the living Ark by the following passages:

2 Sam 6:1-11 and Luke 1:39-43 & Luke1:59

These verses match blow for blow summarized in the following:

1. The Ark moved from Galilee to Jerusalem (2 Sam:6:2)
   – the Blessed Virgin moved from Galilee to Jerusalem (Luke 1:39)
2. David and the Isrealites made merry BEFORE the Lord ( 2 Sam 6:5)
   – St. Elizabeth made merry BEFORE the Lord (Jesus in the Womb of His dear mother) (Luke 1:41-42)
3. David confessing “How can the ark of the LORD come to me?” (2 Sam 6:9)
   – St. Elizabeth confessing "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43)
4. The ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite for three month ( 2 Sam 6:11)
   – Mary remained with St. Elizabeth about three months (Luke 1:56)

Therefore, the Ark of the Covenant prefigured the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The Ark contained the manna, the staff of Aaron, and the Law which were fulfilled in Jesus(Hebrews 9:4); Jesus is the Bread of Life, the Eucharst; Jesus is the staff of Aaron, liberation from Sin; and Jesus is the Law, the Word of God.

Mary contained Jesus in her womb for 9 months. She is the only person that can look at the cross and say “flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone”.

Furthermore, in Revelations 11:19 we read the following:
“Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.”

Guess what the Sacred writer is leading into?

Revelations 12:1:
“A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.”

God Bless

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Only Jesus can save people. I am just interested as Jesus told his apostles to pray to the Father and I can see no problems with asking the HS for guidance either. Where in the scriptures does it even suggest that prayers to Mary are acceptable?

If I wanted to be a RC than I would want that they stick to the scriptures. It appears that the RCC goes beyond what Jesus taught in regards to praying to Mary.

Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

See why I have problems with this. I would love to hear more about this but my theology is limited to what God has revealed in the scriptures and nothing more.

Can you help?

Where in the Scriptures does it say that you can pray to the Holy Spriit? Where in the Scriptures does it directly state that the Holy Spirit is God?

Of course Jesus saves. He is my way, my Truth, and my Life. And no, we do not go beyond what Jesus taught in praying to Mary. Jesus left a living Church to decide doctrinal matters after His death… afterall it is the Church which is the fullness of Truth and not the Bible alone, according to the Bible! Jesus Christ only commanded St. John to write the Book of Revelation, other than that He did not command them to pen down ANYTHING. Yet, Christians accept the New Testament as canonical because the Catholic Church decided the canon at the Council of Carthage in the 4th century. Without the Church there would be no Bible – and we could all do what some reformers wanted to do and throw books out that didn’t fit with our theology!

And my Church is properly called the Catholic Church… not the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church comprises of only the Western Rite (Roman Rite) of the Catholic Church and calling the whole Church ‘Roman Catholic’ forgets our eastern brethren who submit to the authority of the Holy Father (the Eastern-Rite Catholics).

 

[Darrel]

I am not going to rehash all the arguments and repudiations that have been made… I will say that St. Hilarious made some very good scriptural arguments against Marianism.

Scriptural arguments are all he can make. In the land of protestantism there is nothing new under the sun. In the CC we understand that God is love and we understand that love is active and always moving forward. This is why God reveals new things to the Catholic Church (his true Church). Things like the Rosary and the chaplet of divine mercy. The Church is alive and active as it moves through history. God has revealed many things to the CC.

Jesus never said take this all of you and read it. This is the Bible of the new and everlasting covenant. What has God revealed of late to the Baptist Church that I should consider adopting? Marianism is the least of your concerns. We believe in the real presence of the Eucharist and a host of other things I used to judge abominous as a protestant.

The real issue in the end is simple. Protestants won’t admit that there is a problem with the idea that God would allow thousands of different churches to exist in his name that all teach different things. A loving God would not confuse his children, he would establish his one single original Church.

Instead of looking at this problem in length, we can go line by line and issue by issue and use the bible like law makers use the constitution to debate issues in congress and never get anything done.

-D

 

[Zooey]

I think it very unfair to classify BA as the same as SH. BA is patient, thoughtful, considerate and well meaning. In contrast SH is reaping what he sowed.

As much as I often disagree with BA, I respect his thoughtful posts. SH???http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/4.gif...gry1/4.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/angry1/4.gif

And that’s being :yup: mild-mannered, for me…

 

[Zooey]

I am not going to rehash all the arguments and repudiations that have been made… I will say that St. Hilarious made some very good scriptural arguments against Marianism.

I have to say, in all honesty & with as much charity as possible, that I have not seen one single argument, scriptural or otherwise, from SH, that was in any sense “good”.
I have seen a bitter person, who, INHO,:crying: hates Catholics more than he loves the Lord Jesus.:crying:
That is:crying: very, very sad, & totally :nope:un-Christian–again, IMO.

To be “in” Christ, is to be unified with the Father

John
www.gideonsword.net

Yes, of course; on this we are:yup: in agreement. That is basic to the Christian life–for all Christians, everywhere.
God bless.