Edited Title: Is this a Marian deception?

[MrS]

I do not have a religion. Religions with all their religious requirements are not for me.

I have a relationship with Jesus.

The word religion comes from the Greek and means a “relationship”

Yours appears to be weak and self serving. So you will only be able to worship God in your way. The only Church which Jesus founded teaches all mankind to worship God in His way… if they will listen.

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[MrS]

I am not trying to stop you to pray to Mary. I would like to know if loving and honouring Mary is against the first commandment, where we are instructed to honour and love God with all our strenght. If you are honouring God with all your strenght, how do you have strenght left to honour Mary?

Actually NOT honoring Mary is against the 4th Commandment.

If Jesus, as the perfect Jew, kept all the commandments, He most certainly kept the 4th…

and if Mary is good enough for Him, she is good enough for me… I want to be more like Jesus… so I will continue to honor Him Mother.

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[MrS]

Thank you for yor loving attitude towards me. I am convinced that RCism is the true church and some of its loyal members have shown their love for me.

Black Knight MI says that I have a” lousy sarcastic attitude” and “offensive and nasty attitude”

ssejllenrad called me a “self-righteous and arrogant person”

Zooey descibed me as “rude & disrespectful “ and ”bitter & unhappy??”

may the lord Jesus bless you.

please add Mr S to your list… you are truly Hilarious… in a sad sort of way.

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[HailMary]

SHLAMA ELLAKH MARIAM, MLEETHA M-NA-AMEH, MARAN
EMMAKH. M-BURAKHTA Y-WAT B-INSHEH, W-BURKHAILEH
PAIRA D-KASAKH EASHOA. MART MARIAM YIMMA DA-
ALAHA M-SALEM M-BADALAN AKHNY HhATAYEH, DAHA
W-BGO SHAITHA D-MOTHEN. AMEN

just thought I’d like to share it.

 

[TobyLue]

Jesus commanded his apostles to pray to our Father in heaven, and we the Roman Catholic people of God largely ignore Jesus’ teaching and turn to Mary instead.

Thou shall not bear false witness…

You dishonor The Blessed Virgin Mary, our mother AND your mother, whether you like it or not.
Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother.

I have a relationship with Jesus.

Thou shall not take the name of the Lord in vain. What kind of relationship may I ask. And how have you determined that you and only you have a relationship with Jesus? What method do you use? If you use ONLY the scriptures, you are using the same scriptures that the Catholic Church with the help of the Holy Spirit, compiled and determined as truly the inspired word of God. Who has given YOU the authority to be the interpreter? You quote “Col.1:25 I became its servant according to God’s commission that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery that has been hidden throughout the ages and generations but has now been revealed to his saints.” Who commissioned you and be careful how you answer this?

Do I have to pray to Mary in order to be acceptable by Jesus?

Again honor they father and thy mother. Do you think it is acceptable by Jesus and happy with you trashing His mother AND your mother?

If you are honouring God with all your strenght, how do you have strenght left to honour Mary?

You place a limitation on honor and on love. If we are to honor God with all our strength, how then does God expect us to keep the commandment “Honor thy father and thy mother”? I dont know if you are married or have children or still have your parents and/or brothers and sisters. I guess you ignore them completely and never honor them. I guess you just dismiss Mothers Day and Fathers Day. I guess all this is acceptable to Jesus by your standards. What lovely children of God we would be.

Thank you for yor loving attitude towards me. I am convinced that RCism is the true church and some of its loyal members have shown their love for me.

Look at your attitude towards the Catholic Church AND TOWARDS THE BLESSED VIRGIN MOTHER, THE MOTHER OF THE SAME JESUS YOU CLAIM YOU HAVE A “RELATIONSHIP” WITH. Please remove the plank in your eye first.

 

[MrS]

Look at your attitude towards the Catholic Church AND TOWARDS THE BLESSED VIRGIN MOTHER, THE MOTHER OF THE SAME JESUS YOU CLAIM YOU HAVE A “RELATIONSHIP” WITH. Please remove the plank in your eye first.

I guess that is why hilarious is hilarious.

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[TobyLue]

I this a record? Already over 100 posts and what happened to BA?

 

[TobyLue]

StH

Jesus called his mother WOMAN in the scriptures.

You have seen the responses to “woman”, now let’s hear your interpretations of this and in a meaninful dialogue.

 

[ssejllenrad]

I this a record? Already over 100 posts and what happened to BA?

I was wondering that myself… Maybe BA will be back.That’s one persistent fellow. Or maybe not… Sure hope not… I’m sick of illogical, close-minded, prejudiced, anti-Catholic posts… Come to think of it, SH is just as irritating for me as BA… Maybe more…

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Another aspect of this thread that hasn’t been brought up yet is that the posts of BA and StHilarious demonstrate the profound difference in what protestants call ‘worship’ and Catholics call worship. Since protestants do not offer up a pure offering to God (the Eucharist) they substitute with “praying” to God–along with scripture reading, music, sermon, etc. When a protestant sees that we “pray” to Mary or another saint, they immediately, and wrongly, assume that it is worship. It is not worship, not even close. But since protestant theology is miles from Catholic theology in this area it is hard to explain it.

I’m not saying that Catholic worship to God doesn’t include personal prayer (who wants to bet that my words will be twisted here?) but the Mass is not about personal prayer. It is about the community of God offering to God a pure offering (Mal 1:11) in spirit and truth (Jn 4:23).

Loving and honoring and petitioning Mary is not worship. It does not usurp God’s place or position in our hearts. When we petition Mary through prayer, the understanding is that she will present our prayer to her Son. That is why it is called intercessory prayer. All graces given to Mary have been given to her by God. If you don’t believe that Mary has any influence with her Son, read about the wedding at Cana. Or start a new thread about prayers to Mary that have been answered. You will probably get 100 responses in a couple days…

 

[NotWorthy]

It might be wise to show a little Christian charity to BA and St.Hilarious even if you feel they are being disrespectful. If they are disrespectful, that’s their problem. Does that give us the right to stoop to what we feel their level is?

Jesus tells us to love our enemies, so even if you feel that others are anti-catholic, it would still be nice to show them what Catholics are really made of…

 

[Stephen_C]

Another aspect of this thread that hasn’t been brought up yet is that the posts of BA and StHilarious demonstrate the profound difference in what protestants call ‘worship’ and Catholics call worship. Since protestants do not offer up a pure offering to God (the Eucharist) they substitute with “praying” to God–along with scripture reading, music, sermon, etc. When a protestant sees that we “pray” to Mary or another saint, they immediately, and wrongly, assume that it is worship. It is not worship, not even close. But since protestant theology is miles from Catholic theology in this area it is hard to explain it.

I’m not saying that Catholic worship to God doesn’t include personal prayer (who wants to bet that my words will be twisted here?) but the Mass is not about personal prayer. It is about the community of God offering to God a pure offering (Mal 1:11) in spirit and truth (Jn 4:23).

Loving and honoring and petitioning Mary is not worship. It does not usurp God’s place or position in our hearts. When we petition Mary through prayer, the understanding is that she will present our prayer to her Son. That is why it is called intercessory prayer. All graces given to Mary have been given to her by God. If you don’t believe that Mary has any influence with her Son, read about the wedding at Cana. Or start a new thread about prayers to Mary that have been answered. You will probably get 100 responses in a couple days…

True. But I think what BA is trying to say is that Mary is not the devil…but Catholic’s are being deceived by the devil, pretending to be Mary. Us Catholic’s being a pagen and non-christian religion, just cannot tell the difference.

 

[whosebob]

If you are experiencing something spiritual, and it is not the Holy Spirit… it must be a devil. This is a very dangerous claim you are making!

JMJ + OBT​

I have a personal relationship with Mary, and she has only helped my personal relationship with Jesus to grow stronger and deeper.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[whosebob]

JMJ + OBT​

O Jesus, living in Mary,
Come and live in Thy servants,
In the spirit of Thy holiness,
In the fullness of Thy might,
In the truth of Thy virtues,
In the perfection of Thy ways,
In the communion of Thy mysteries.
Subdue every hostile power
In Thy spirit, for the glory of the Father. Amen.

– prayer of St. Louis de Montfort

Read his classic treatise on True Devotion to Mary.

That prayer and the Marian spirituality of St. Louis de Montfort have had a poweful impact on my personal Christian discipleship.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

True. But I think what BA is trying to say is that Mary is not the devil…but Catholic’s are being deceived by the devil, pretending to be Mary. Us Catholic’s being a pagen and non-christian religion, just cannot tell the difference.

I agree with you. I was responding a bit more to St.Hilarious’ posts than the OP. However, it has been my experience that most protestants naturally assume that if you pray to someone other than God you are worshipping them.

As far as Catholics being deceived by the devil pretending to be Mary, that is a possibility of course. He is cunning, we all know that. But like I said before, we know by the fruit whether it is evil or good. Every person I know who has a relationship with Mary has said that she has brought them closer to her Son. That has been my own experience too. I don’t think the devil would be accomplishing his goal if he brings someone closer to the Christ. However, if a Marian apparition causes any division in the Church or draws anyone away from Christ, it is not her.

 

[Della]

Thinking of Mary in the context of the devil is like thinking of pure white snow as opposed to a mudslide.

I watched a Fundamentalist exorcism service one day on the tube. They started by naming all the devils and commanding them to leave. The congregation remained quite calm. Then they cast out “the Virgin” and all hell broke loose! No doubt they thought they were driving out yet another demon, but in reality they were commanding Mary to go, the one who was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit as a virgin to conceive the Son of God, who was also a Virgin. So, it’s no wonder nearly everyone there felt some kind of demonic presence or started to act out their demonic possession. They had just dismissed the very heavenly persons who could have protected them from the very devils they so wanted to exorcise! Ironic, isn’t it?

 

[Mickey]

Ironic, isn’t it?

Indeed!

 

[Church_Militant]

I this a record? Already over 100 posts and what happened to BA?

He probably has a life!

Seriously though, I may not agree with him, but by and large he’s been pretty decent until he picked this messed up title for a thread. It certainly comes accross as inflammatory, and I really don’t think he meant it the way we take it at first glance.

Hey… I could be wrong. (It sure wouldn’t be a first!) Somehow, I just don’t think BA ever considered just how offensive a title like this is to Catholics.

I hope I’m right.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

 

[Truthstalker]

I think it very unfair to classify BA as the same as SH. BA is patient, thoughtful, considerate and well meaning. In contrast SH is reaping what he sowed.

 

[corvidae]

How could you come to that conclusion?

Jesus commanded his apostles to pray to our Father in heaven, and we the Roman Catholic people of God largely ignore Jesus’ teaching and turn to Mary instead.

St. I don’t think you should refer to “we”

You may ignore Jesus teaching and turn to Mary,
But WE Roman Catholics accept Christ teaching, even accepting Mary as our Mother.

I believe you have not been Catholic in some time St. Hilarious, so how can you refer to we the Roamn Catholic people?

A lone Raven

p.s.- I base this on discussion with you on other threads and other boards, it is not just an out of the blue assumption

I also agree that while BA is not always the easiest person to reason with, he is immensly patient, and even respectful.

SH is not, We should not stoop to his level, but we do need to call him out on it.

As for if this Mary is a demon, I think even on the cross Christ would have enough sense not to name a demon the mother of John