EF Mass Preferers now demand "right" of all sacraments under "old form"

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edwest211 said:
Of course, there were always dissenters in the Church. But my point is: things did not go at full power until after the Council. The Council being used to create confusion. Shortly before stepping down as Pope, Pope Benedict made a point of mentioning this twice. I’m referring to the period where the troops were formed and then attacked. This was between 1965 and 1968, following by an increasing level of attacks till today.
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  • Things did not go at “full power” explicitly, openly, till after the Council. I think a lot was going on behind the scenes, since WWII. The fact that “Humani Generis” had to be written in 1950 shows how deeply Pope Pius was already concerned, and accurately predicted a little of what was looming. He foresaw some of the theological errors and assumptions that would be the basis for some of the abuses that became overt in the late 60s. My own theory is that this is why he defined the dogma of the Assumption at the same time. It helped support 2 aspects of Christ that dissenters would later overtly challenge. But he saw the challenges when they were covert.
  • The Council was used by the bad guys to create confusion, true. It was also used by good guys for genuine renewal.
 
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I’ll just say that reading Humani Generis in its entirety not only showed Pope Pius XII’s important concerns but he also gave corrective instructions. I was there to watch the transitions from 1965 to 1968 and beyond. It pained me to no end to watch the attacks against the family, proper human relationships and the creation of hypersexuality, and the damage to the minds of women which led to a bad atmosphere for creating good relationships and stable families with men.

This desire to please God first and recover the Mass that was dear to them, and which is having a positive effect on some young Catholics, is a very good idea.
 
I give up. I have no idea how to use this forum format.
 
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Because it’s the proper form. Ordinary really. In the grand scheme of things this mass was the one celebrated 400 years officially. Longer if you take into effect it was de facto the Mass since 600 A.D. It had and has no justification for ever being changed, especially by the Church that says it is all tradition. People are so focused on changing the Mass. As if we are able to understand it just because we can understand the vernacular? It’s all an illusion. Instead we should focus on allowing the Mass to change US. The Mass of the ages and the sacraments are true Catholicism.
 
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jas84173 said:
Because it’s the proper form. Ordinary really. In the grand scheme of things this mass was the one celebrated 400 years officially. Longer if you take into effect it was de facto the Mass since 600 A.D. It had and has no justification for ever being changed, especially by the Church that says it is all tradition. People are so focused on changing the Mass. As if we are able to understand it just because we can understand the vernacular? It’s all an illusion. Instead we should focus on allowing the Mass to change US. The Mass of the ages and the sacraments are true Catholicism.
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I like the EF Mass, and strongly support expansion of its availability.

That said, I disagree with the above post, except for the second last sentence. Arguments such as this are often cited by those who want to restrict, or even terminate the EF. (“See what those people are like? See what a can of worms we open if we allow that here?”)
 
jas84173 said:
It had and has no justification for ever being changed, especially by the Church that says it is all tradition.
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The order of the mass - a form of worship and prayer - is almost entirely man made. You speak as though what was made in earlier times must inherently be superior to what is made in recent times. The Mass is not “moral teaching” nor “truth itself” that is unchangeable.
 
Highlight the text you want to quote with your mouse, and you’ll see a grey box with "Quote hover above the highlighted text. Click it and the highlighted text will appear as a quote in the reply box, just like on the old forum.

Multi-quoting is easier now too, you can construct a post of quotes from multiple posters doing the same thing. The quotes will all appear in the reply box. You can write your replies between quotes.
 
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jas84173 said:
The Mass of the ages and the sacraments are true Catholicism.
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Catholicism, by definition is universal. No form of Mass is universal, even the Roman Rite. I do not know what you mean by “true”, but find its use here ironic.
 
whyeyeman said:
Beauty is objective.
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Which has more beauty, the works of Mozart or DaVinci? How much beauty does each have?

I understand your point, while at the same time say that the idea of objective beauty is often used to justify opinions about subjective beauty, or in place of that which is subjective. The objective beauty in the Mass, any Mass, it that Heaven is joined to Earth at the Sacrifice of Calvary is re-presented. Objective beauty is found in the divine.
 
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