Effective Confirmation lesson plans?

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Windfish said:
Horton, I stand by every single one of my posts. Disagreement, even spirited disagreement, is not rudeness. Calling into question your reading comprehension, while barbed, was only after you accused me of the most vile heresy - iow, you earned it. Uncharitably accusing me of denying the Real Presence is the sickest thing, by far, that anyone has done in this thread or, indeed, my tenure here on CAF (12 yrs). - it is abominable. And that you haven’t retracted it shows me that you don’t really understand the gravity of your words or the gravity of such an accusation. And so, I am even more comfortably confident that it is I who has a firmer grasp on things
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You said there is no encounter with Jesus and I reminded you how we truly encounter Him. If that hurt you feelings you may need to check your sensitivity level. I didn’t accuse you of anything, I restated what I felt you had said and then told you I find it sad that someone believes that way.

If you feel others “earn” rude & uncharitable behavior then you still have a great deal to learn about the Church. You sound like a spoiled child who didn’t get her way. I will tell you that approach will never work within youth ministry.

With that I am done here.
 
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Windfish said:
When I accuse 1ke, CilladeRoma, and Horton of wrongfully putting faith before reason, I backed it up with evidence and arguments:
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Please demonstrate where I said anything about faith before reason, reason before faith, or squishy relationship talk. I don’t believe you can back that up with anything I’ve actually said.

What I have asked, and you’ve never answered, is what curriculum your diocese requires for Confirmation prep, if any, and how you envision using apologetics in your class. Give a for instance, which you haven’t.

We’ve cleared up that you did not mean “teach apologetics” but rather “use apologetics in your teaching”. I asked how that differs from “regular teaching” as that is what I do when I teach— I explain and give reason. You have not demonstrated how what you propose differs from teaching. You haven’t really defined what you propose at all.
 
Well, faith is a gift and that gift is given at Baptism. Baptism often comes before the age of reason, so…
 
Windfish said:
How do I reach these young adults in a way that captivates their interest and motivates a change of heart?
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So I’m backing up to the beginning.

I asked what curriculum you’d been given because your course needs structure. You can’t just talk willy-nilly about whatever comes up.

You can do that occasionally— such as a new event or something going on at school. But that’s not a plan for communicating the faith in a coherent manner.

You do need to focus on sacramental prep. If the teens go only to sacrament prep and don’t have another religion class then you are doing BOTH sacrament prep and religious ed. in one class.

You reach them by being honest and authentic and by listening and asking them what they think. Then you break apart what they think and relate it back to what the Church teaches.
Windfish said:
It seems to me that I have to address their anxieties head-on, but that would mean extended discussions in the realm of philosophy and abstract reasoning. I do not imagine this to be a particularly interesting topic for young adults, but I could be wrong.
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Well, you listen. You see what their anxieties actually are. They may not be what you are assuming they are. You are not going to engage them in philosophy and abstract reasoning, for reasons the least of which is time constraints.
Windfish said:
I am asking anyone who has ever lead a group of young people: what has been your experience like? What has worked for you?
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Working with teens is great.

What works for me is my background in teaching. That is why I asked what training you’d had from your diocese or parish, what curriculum you were using, etc. trying to get a sense of your starting point.
 
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If this is the level of “rude” that angers you, seriously, re-consider working with teens.
 
I’m sorry if I’m repeating someone, but I worked with a prep group and we used Altaration, and I found it an excellent program - very dynamic, fantastic speakers, lots of good discussion.
 
1ke, I appreciate your continued interaction. There is no diocesan level directive, but what my parish has been using is totally up to the youth director. And she used a combination of team-building exercises centered around prayer and a booklet put out by Ignatius. And did you happen to miss when I gave an example above when I would use apologetics? Here is another brief example: the historicity of the New Testament. You would have to delve into the textual, archeological, etc. data.
 
Windfish said:
What do you think requires balance, exactly? What is out of balance?
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Reason has to precede faith because we are rational creatures. This reason comes from God in who we are. It isn’t about creating intellectual arguments for the existence of God or the Catholic faith. You seem to be equating reason with intellectual understanding and well-presented proofs for the existence of God. There is a place for these, with some people more than others. In our skeptical society that sends confused and contradictory messages about God, I agree that taking an approach that engages the mind is important, but I disagree that rational knowledge and intellectual agreement about God’s existence must necessarily precede building a relationship with him. Thomas Aquinas taught that we can reach the knowledge of a personal God through the use of reason alone, but that few people would achieve that without God’s revelation.

In the East, while acknowledging the role of reason, begins with God’s revelation to us. We can accept God’s revelation because of our rational nature. We do not discover God primarily through our use of reason.

It seems to me that you are focusing disproportionally on the intellectual side of the faith without acknowledging that God does reveal himself to broken, skeptical human beings. If we focus on head-knowledge, we might miss the opportunity for interior knowledge of God . Yes, the very Protestant sounding “personal relationship”.
 
I agree with the commenter above who mentioned time constraints. Could you do Sacramental Prep however your diocese or parish requires you to do it for your prep classes but say, maybe start a blog in which you write posts that go deeper and give the intellectual arguments and proofs.

You could invite your class members to check it out during the week, have online discussion, provide links to good resources, give you questions in class that you can answer on the blog, maybe offer a small incentive for those who participate. It’s true it would be on a voluntary basis and a lot of kids may not show much interest beyond class time but you would at least reach the ones who do have a hunger to go deeper. Maybe have your youth director monitor it and let the parents know it’s available if they want to see the discussions.
 
Windfish said:
Read Vatican I, read Fides et Ratio, or read St. Thomas Aquinas.
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That is quite a reading assignment. Since my time is limited, I only picked one, Fides et Ratio, and gave it a quick skim. So far I have not found anything like your statement that “reason has to precede faith,” but quite the opposite, that faith and reason are complementary, and go together hand in hand. For example:
Although faith, a gift of God, is not based on reason, it can certainly not dispense with it. At the same time, it becomes apparent that reason needs to be reinforced by faith, in order to discover horizons it cannot reach on its own.

(from paragraph 67)
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I am also gathering, in Fides et Ratio, that truth is found in many ways, one of which is reason, but reason cannot be regarded as a prerequisite in the search for truth.

In the life of a child, love is the first experience that begins to reveal the truth about God, and relationship may be the second, and the third would be the parents’ witness to the faith. If I were to guess the reason for the weak faith of today’s youth, I would say it has a lot more to do with parenting and family life than with reasoning skills.

Nevertheless, I think it’s a great idea to show Confirmation students how to use their faculties of reason to reinforce their faith and to respond to challenges that threaten to weaken their faith.
 
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Windfish said:
Lateran, if you read the whole thread, you will have known that I did precisely that [consult the appropriate local leaders]. And both the youth director and parish pastor agree with my approach. Also, when you accuse someone of not grasping something, in order to not sound patronizing, you ought to demonstrate how they do not grasp that thing
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You miss the point. The Bishop gives Authority to both his Priests, Deacons , and the Leadership of the Lay Ecclesiastiical Ministries operating in his Diocese.

Therefore agreeing with an idea does not lead to the implementation of that idea without the appropriate meetings and consultation. And what aspects specifically were your locals in agreement with? And were they in agreement with changing the program.

You exist in a community , not in a vacuum.
Windfish said:
When I accuse 1ke, CilladeRoma, and Horton of wrongfully putting faith before reason, I backed it up with evidence and arguments:
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Have you read the Second Vatican Council document Lumen gentium?
In this wonderful document the vocation to ministry that is created with our baptism and is described thus:

’ through our baptism we are called
to confess our faith and our great gift of faith and graces from the Triune God’

Please note the words ’ our great gift of faith’
This simple statement requires no argument.
This is why I have said you could benefit from further formation yourself.

Dei Filius, the dogmatic constitution of the church, written of the first Vatican Council 1870 era, discusses human reason and its use and limitations. However ;

states ‘faith…is the substance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not apparent’

and states ’ faith itself…is in itself a gift from God’
and goes on to discuss how the act of faith is a work appertaining to salvation and requiring cooperation with the Grace of God.

And also discusses knowledge,wisdom and illumination of the Holy Spirit in our lives in knowing the Truth.

And also states divine faith and the hidden mysteries of God must be divinely revealed or we cannot know them. Therefore without the gift and graces of faith, left with only our human reason, we are inept at knowing God and following our Faith.

quote=“Windfish, post:105, topic:471895”]
Young Catholics
[/quote]
Young Catholics are as varied and diverse as any aged Catholic in any generation.
It does an individual, in a class you are teaching, a great disservice to enter into that class with these preconceived ideas. And will likely be quite damaging.

This is why I suggested you seek education and formation in you role.

And I am sure you will learn two things in the course of life and in the new evangelism
They are:
Less words and more love
The most important tool is listening.

Listen to the many voices of experience on this thread, and take a delegation to your Bishop with plans and programs and opportunity for ministry.
 
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I agree with this. In our program all the kids are encouraged to ask questions and then discuss the answers, expressing what they think about it. This is one of the best ways within a program to teach the faith. What I am finding is very few of the kids have the language and/or knowledge to frame their questions. It has to be a balance of teaching and feedback from the kids.

I am currently teaching our post confirmation group and getting them to ask questions about what is important to them in their world. In our last session we discussed the recent school shooting. We don’t have a set curriculum for that particular group, we do for all the others, so basically we ask them what they would like to know more about, questions they may have, discuss current issues in the lives of that age group.
 
This is evangelization!

I think folks forget that teens by and large are driven by emotion, not reason.

The modern atheist movement relies on heavily emotion, it does not stand up to rational, philosophical debate. (While they do have Catholic that contribute, and there is adult language, the Red Pill Religion podcast is something that those who work in evangelization would do well to watch. Here is a good example!
)
 
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