Elderly "living together"

[minkymurph]

He probably just wants the companionship. Is your mother deceased? I have heard that many elderly people are doing this, so that they don’t lose their benefits when they marry. If they are not having sexual relations, I’m not sure if it’s considered sinful. I guess it could be scandal, but they’re OLD, so…

They probably just want company. I think most people would see it like that and wouldn’t consider it scandalous.

 

[chaunceygardner]

I have to say something on this. If I was married till I was 80 years old from the time I was young, and I was to share a house with an older lady for companionship; that is as far as it would go. I have grown to love my wife, so I will remember her as that young women I married long ago. I don’t ever want to see the dropping of things that I saw on my wife on somebody else; and if I wanted to look at something it would be one of those young hott nurses coming out of clinicals who still have everything tight and firm; and then I can ask her for my sponge bath .

I was going to say something serious, but after reading this post and laughing for a while I lost my train of thought.

Oh yes, now I remember. I have considered this quite a bit, as I have known people close to me in that situation. Despite what the “rules” may be, I have no problem with two elderly people who care about each other (perhaps even love each other) being together, whatever that may involve. I also can’t see God condemning those people. I see nothing in the gospels or in the teachings of Jesus that preclude this, but only the rules of men. And it seems that the rules of the Church have mostly to do with having children, accepting children into a marriage, and having the proper type of sexual activity that will allow for the conception of children, none of which applies here. What applies here is love, caring, and companionship. I see that as something God would approve of, not forbid, married or not.

 

[Bookcat]

My elderly father is contemplating buying a home and refurbishing it with the help of a lady friend, and then moving in together. I do not feel that this is right for many reasons. I am uncertain how I should address this with him. How would it change things if they were to live in separate bedrooms vs. sharing the same bedroom.

I would appreciate answers on Church teaching of this living arrangement, and also how to deal with this as a family issue.

Thank you very much.

Should opposite elderly be “living together”? (apart from say being in the same nursing home etc)

– age does not come with a new set of moral principles (though there could be some new things added etc).

You can call Catholic Answers Staff Apologists to discuss issues further

How do to deal with what needs to be dealt with?

with truth, charity, prudence…

Pope Benedict XVI

““Being concerned for each other” also entails being concerned for their spiritual well-being. Here I would like to mention an aspect of the Christian life, which I believe has been quite forgotten: fraternal correction in view of eternal salvation. Today, in general, we are very sensitive to the idea of charity and caring about the physical and material well-being of others, but almost completely silent about our spiritual responsibility towards our brothers and sisters. This was not the case in the early Church or in those communities that are truly mature in faith, those which are concerned not only for the physical health of their brothers and sisters, but also for their spiritual health and ultimate destiny. The Scriptures tell us: “Rebuke the wise and he will love you for it. Be open with the wise, he grows wiser still, teach the upright, he will gain yet more” (Prov 9:8ff). Christ himself commands us to admonish a brother who is committing a sin (cf. Mt 18:15). The verb used to express fraternal correction - elenchein – is the same used to indicate the prophetic mission of Christians to speak out against a generation indulging in evil (cf. Eph 5:11). The Church’s tradition has included “admonishing sinners” among the spiritual works of mercy. It is important to recover this dimension of Christian charity. We must not remain silent before evil. I am thinking of all those Christians who, out of human regard or purely personal convenience, adapt to the prevailing mentality, rather than warning their brothers and sisters against ways of thinking and acting that are contrary to the truth and that do not follow the path of goodness. Christian admonishment, for its part, is never motivated by a spirit of accusation or recrimination. It is always moved by love and mercy, and springs from genuine concern for the good of the other. As the Apostle Paul says: “If one of you is caught doing something wrong, those of you who are spiritual should set that person right in a spirit of gentleness; and watch yourselves that you are not put to the test in the same way” (Gal 6:1). In a world pervaded by individualism, it is essential to rediscover the importance of fraternal correction, so that together we may journey towards holiness. Scripture tells us that even “the upright falls seven times” (Prov 24:16); all of us are weak and imperfect (cf. 1 Jn 1:8). It is a great service, then, to help others and allow them to help us, so that we can be open to the whole truth about ourselves, improve our lives and walk more uprightly in the Lord’s ways. There will always be a need for a gaze which loves and admonishes, which knows and understands, which discerns and forgives (cf. Lk 22:61), as God has done and continues to do with each of us.”

Read the whole thing here–

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/lent/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20111103_lent-2012_en.html

 

[twk001]

i sort of have to agree about the companionship thing…,my elderly grandma had this same scenario. after my grandpa passed to Jesus, she was all alone for the first time in 60 years. He did all of the banking, bill paying, driving, etc. she was quite dependent on my parents. we were in no way burdened, but SHE wanted to have a life too.

she and a gentleman friend decided to share a home for financial reasons and companionship. it was simply a roommate situation. they each had their own bath, bedroom, etc. it was really nice. he took good care of her. as fate would happen, they eventually grew to love each other and married in the church. it was small and lovely and several years later when SHE passed to Jesus, she had already picked the dress to be buried in- the dress she had worn to celebrate her 50th wedding anniversary with the love of her life (grandpa) AND to marry her late in life companion!

 

[Bookcat]

My elderly father is contemplating buying a home and refurbishing it with the help of a lady friend, and then moving in together. I do not feel that this is right for many reasons. I am uncertain how I should address this with him. How would it change things if they were to live in separate bedrooms vs. sharing the same bedroom.

I would appreciate answers on Church teaching of this living arrangement, and also how to deal with this as a family issue.

Thank you very much.

Should opposite elderly be “living together”?

– old age does not come with a new set of moral principles (though there could be some new things added etc).

Call one of Catholic Answers Staff Apologists to discuss issues further --live.

How do to deal with what needs to be dealt with?

with truth, charity, prayer, prudence…

Pope Benedict XVI

Quote-

““Being concerned for each other” also entails being concerned for their spiritual well-being. Here I would like to mention an aspect of the Christian life, which I believe has been quite forgotten: fraternal correction in view of eternal salvation. Today, in general, we are very sensitive to the idea of charity and caring about the physical and material well-being of others, but almost completely silent about our spiritual responsibility towards our brothers and sisters. This was not the case in the early Church or in those communities that are truly mature in faith, those which are concerned not only for the physical health of their brothers and sisters, but also for their spiritual health and ultimate destiny. The Scriptures tell us: “Rebuke the wise and he will love you for it. Be open with the wise, he grows wiser still, teach the upright, he will gain yet more” (Prov 9:8ff). Christ himself commands us to admonish a brother who is committing a sin (cf. Mt 18:15). The verb used to express fraternal correction - elenchein – is the same used to indicate the prophetic mission of Christians to speak out against a generation indulging in evil (cf. Eph 5:11). The Church’s tradition has included “admonishing sinners” among the spiritual works of mercy. It is important to recover this dimension of Christian charity. We must not remain silent before evil. I am thinking of all those Christians who, out of human regard or purely personal convenience, adapt to the prevailing mentality, rather than warning their brothers and sisters against ways of thinking and acting that are contrary to the truth and that do not follow the path of goodness. Christian admonishment, for its part, is never motivated by a spirit of accusation or recrimination. It is always moved by love and mercy, and springs from genuine concern for the good of the other. As the Apostle Paul says: “If one of you is caught doing something wrong, those of you who are spiritual should set that person right in a spirit of gentleness; and watch yourselves that you are not put to the test in the same way” (Gal 6:1). In a world pervaded by individualism, it is essential to rediscover the importance of fraternal correction, so that together we may journey towards holiness. Scripture tells us that even “the upright falls seven times” (Prov 24:16); all of us are weak and imperfect (cf. 1 Jn 1:8). It is a great service, then, to help others and allow them to help us, so that we can be open to the whole truth about ourselves, improve our lives and walk more uprightly in the Lord’s ways. There will always be a need for a gaze which loves and admonishes, which knows and understands, which discerns and forgives (cf. Lk 22:61), as God has done and continues to do with each of us.”

Read the whole thing here—

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/lent/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20111103_lent-2012_en.html

 

[Havard]

Chauncey, I think the Bible does have something to say about these situations in at least two ways:

Testimony: The Bible says we should avoid even the appearance of evil. (Ephesians 5:3; 1 Thessalonians 5:22) How does the decision to live together affect those around them? What kind of an example does it set for younger people who are watching? How will people view their relationship who do not know about their commitment to abstain sexually? Our testimony affects how people view Christ and the church. Many have rejected Christianity because they do not see people living it out. Living together presents a poor testimony for Christ and his church.

Trivialization: Living together trivializes marriage by simultaneously mimicking its form and excluding the sacrament. This goes against Hebrews 13:4 which says: “Let marriage be honored by all.”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Everyone thinks these two “elderly” (not sure how old that is, it depends upon who gets to judge - I thought “elderly” was maybe 45 when I was a teenager!) people are going to be rolling around in bed together, maybe watching dirty movies or something???

Come on, really?

What if they aren’t going to have sex? Doesn’t that change things? Aren’t they just roommates then? Would you still be all

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Everyone thinks these two “elderly” (not sure how old that is, it depends upon who gets to judge - I thought “elderly” was maybe 45 when I was a teenager!) people are going to be rolling around in bed together, maybe watching dirty movies or something???

Come on, really?

What if they aren’t going to have sex? Doesn’t that change things? Aren’t they just roommates then? Would you still be all

I worked at a nursing home in high school and I can assure you that many very elderly people still have active sex lives. It may not be the most intense, passionate, or acrobatic but they manage. And really I think its great. I hope that when I’m 80 I’ll still be able to cherish my husband like that. (Besides, if these two are healthy enough to restore a house…)

And yes, I still think that people would still be about it if they were just roommates because they misunderstand scandal.

 

[Bookcat]

Should opposite elderly be “living together”?

– old age does not come with a new set of moral principles (though there could be some new things added etc).

Call one of Catholic Answers Staff Apologists to discuss issues further --live.

How do to deal with what needs to be dealt with?

with truth, charity, prayer, prudence…

Pope Benedict XVI

Quote-

““Being concerned for each other” also entails being concerned for their spiritual well-being. Here I would like to mention an aspect of the Christian life, which I believe has been quite forgotten: fraternal correction in view of eternal salvation. Today, in general, we are very sensitive to the idea of charity and caring about the physical and material well-being of others, but almost completely silent about our spiritual responsibility towards our brothers and sisters. This was not the case in the early Church or in those communities that are truly mature in faith, those which are concerned not only for the physical health of their brothers and sisters, but also for their spiritual health and ultimate destiny. The Scriptures tell us: “Rebuke the wise and he will love you for it. Be open with the wise, he grows wiser still, teach the upright, he will gain yet more” (Prov 9:8ff). Christ himself commands us to admonish a brother who is committing a sin (cf. Mt 18:15). The verb used to express fraternal correction - elenchein – is the same used to indicate the prophetic mission of Christians to speak out against a generation indulging in evil (cf. Eph 5:11). The Church’s tradition has included “admonishing sinners” among the spiritual works of mercy. It is important to recover this dimension of Christian charity. We must not remain silent before evil. I am thinking of all those Christians who, out of human regard or purely personal convenience, adapt to the prevailing mentality, rather than warning their brothers and sisters against ways of thinking and acting that are contrary to the truth and that do not follow the path of goodness. Christian admonishment, for its part, is never motivated by a spirit of accusation or recrimination. It is always moved by love and mercy, and springs from genuine concern for the good of the other. As the Apostle Paul says: “If one of you is caught doing something wrong, those of you who are spiritual should set that person right in a spirit of gentleness; and watch yourselves that you are not put to the test in the same way” (Gal 6:1). In a world pervaded by individualism, it is essential to rediscover the importance of fraternal correction, so that together we may journey towards holiness. Scripture tells us that even “the upright falls seven times” (Prov 24:16); all of us are weak and imperfect (cf. 1 Jn 1:8). It is a great service, then, to help others and allow them to help us, so that we can be open to the whole truth about ourselves, improve our lives and walk more uprightly in the Lord’s ways. There will always be a need for a gaze which loves and admonishes, which knows and understands, which discerns and forgives (cf. Lk 22:61), as God has done and continues to do with each of us.”

Read the whole thing here—

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/lent/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20111103_lent-2012_en.html

That should have read “opposite sex” but I imagine you got what I was trying to type there.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I worked at a nursing home in high school and I can assure you that many very elderly people still have active sex lives. It may not be the most intense, passionate, or acrobatic but they manage. And really I think its great. I hope that when I’m 80 I’ll still be able to cherish my husband like that. (Besides, if these two are healthy enough to restore a house…)

And yes, I still think that people would still be about it if they were just roommates because they misunderstand scandal.

In that case, it would be just as wrong for the 2 people to shack up as it would be for a younger couple, whether 20, 30, 50, or 70.

I don’t want to hear about how you found out old people have a sex life. I mean, I REALLY don’t want to hear about it.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

In that case, it would be just as wrong for the 2 people to shack up as it would be for a younger couple, whether 20, 30, 50, or 70.

I don’t want to hear about how you found out old people have a sex life. I mean, I REALLY don’t want to hear about it.

Why they ? Its normal, healthy, and not dirty. Heck, within marriage it isn’t even sinful. Why should “being old” bar a couple from expressing their love? At what age do you plan on telling your husband that there will be no more of that?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Why they ? Its normal, healthy, and not dirty. Heck, within marriage it isn’t even sinful. Why should “being old” bar a couple from expressing their love? At what age do you plan on telling your husband that there will be no more of that?

My was for YOU finding out that old people have sex lives. I don’t want to know how you happened to discover this at age 14.

The rest, I’m not going to get into here.

If the OP’s father plans to shack up at his age, it’s still a sin. Having sex outside marriage is always sinful. Even if you’re old, wrinkly, and need Viagra.

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t want to hear about how you found out old people have a sex life. I mean, I REALLY don’t want to hear about it.

Did it occur to you that this comes up in conversation? One spouse may not be able to handle taking care of other spouse all of the time, but that doesn’t mean the nursing home residents never leaves the facility for visits home (or to their spouse’s assisted living apartment). Some people in long-term care have private rooms, too. It is hardly shocking for a married couple to admit that they have a sex life.

 

[EasterJoy]

I cannot think of a Church teaching that involves a child correcting a parent.

If the parent is in violation of moral law or giving scandal to the child, there is nothing prohibiting it, especially if the “child” is an adult. Why would there be? The Golden Rule is to be followed from the prospective of a person who desires sanctity, not from the prospective of merely desiring that other people mind their own business and doing likewise.

 

[EasterJoy]

Lonely is an awful thing to be … I say GO FOR IT!

Yes, well, we were all lonely when we were unmarried college students, and we were expected to get our needs for social intimacy met in ways appropriate for a single person then, too.

 

[EasterJoy]

An elderly family member of mine did the same thing. He and a female friend lived together, same house but separate bedrooms. She had been a friend of the family for 60+ years and they were just lonely and trying to save money. He used to cry when I visited because he was so lonely. He was much happier having company after she moved it. I think it improved their health and was safer for them both to not believing alone when almost 90.

I don’t think this kind of arrangement should be assumed to be something that gives any scandal. Sometimes it is very reasonable to believe that two people really are living as brother and sister. After all, an elderly man could obviously have had a 30 year old of either gender living in with him as a companion. If that’s what they’re doing, then let them do it.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Did it occur to you that this comes up in conversation? One spouse may not be able to handle taking care of other spouse all of the time, but that doesn’t mean the nursing home residents never leaves the facility for visits home (or to their spouse’s assisted living apartment). Some people in long-term care have private rooms, too. It is hardly shocking for a married couple to admit that they have a sex life.

Why would the subject be addressed when a 14 year old volunteer was around?

I repeat, If the old people in question haven’t learned discretion by the time they are in a nursing home, well…They don’t need to be flaunting their intimacies.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why would the subject be addressed when a 14 year old volunteer was around?

I repeat, If the old people in question haven’t learned discretion by the time they are in a nursing home, well…They don’t need to be flaunting their intimacies.

A 14 year old could be a freshman in high school. This is not too young to know that married people have sex.

Certainly a volunteer is not old enough to work in a nursing home if he or she is not ready to be around people who’ve lost their sense of discretion. People in general have a tendency to get more and more blunt as they age, but particularly when they are in an environment where their own sense of privacy has had to make accomodations to their physical needs. If you haven’t been around anyone who’s had a stroke, let me assure you that the language that comes out of their mouths can be enough to curl your hair. It depends on what damage the stroke did. Of all the things that a nursing home aide is likely to hear, the news that married people still have sex when they’re over 65 is hardly likely to be the most shocking!

 

[EasterJoy]

Having sex outside marriage is always sinful. Even if you’re old, wrinkly, and need Viagra.

If Viagra treats what ails you, you could also just get married. It is the people who can’t marry because they can’t perform the marital act who assume that the principles have changed…but they haven’t. Genital activities outside the marital act are not morally licit, even for those incapable of marriage.

 

[meltzerboy]

I sense some ageism in this discussion. I get the same from my college students who are shocked when I mention in my Adult Development Psychology course that elderly couples in their 80’s and beyond still have sex. The notion that older people are mostly physically ill, feeble-minded, and live in nursing homes is a societal misconception.