Elected Catholic Democrats to release "Statement of Principles"

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Maranatha

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Public Officials Under God

The statement is only six paragraphs long, which gives it clarity and focus. After a paragraph on Catholic social teaching about the obligations to the poor and disadvantaged,'' the writers get to the hard issue, insisting that each of us is committed to reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and creating an environment with policies that encourage pregnancies to be carried to term.’’
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In other words, Democrats on both sides of the abortion question worry that it is crowding out all other concerns. And in very polite language, the Catholic Democrats suggest that their bishops allow them some room to disagree. **In all these issues, we seek the church's guidance and assistance but believe also in the primacy of conscience**,'' they write in an echo of Kennedy. In recognizing the church’s role in providing moral leadership, we acknowledge and accept the tension that comes from being in disagreement with the church in some areas.’’
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One of the troubling aspects of 2004 was the extent to which partisan politics invaded the churches and seemed to enlist them as part of the Republicans’ electoral apparatus. But there is a difference between defending the legitimate right of churches to speak up on public questions and the hyperpoliticization of the church itself.

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Maranatha said:
Public Officials Under God

The statement is only six paragraphs long, which gives it clarity and focus. After a paragraph on Catholic social teaching about the obligations to the poor and disadvantaged,'' the writers get to the hard issue, insisting that each of us is committed to reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and creating an environment with policies that encourage pregnancies to be carried to term.’’
…
In other words, Democrats on both sides of the abortion question worry that it is crowding out all other concerns. And in very polite language, the Catholic Democrats suggest that their bishops allow them some room to disagree. **In all these issues, we seek the church's guidance and assistance but believe also in the primacy of conscience**,'' they write in an echo of Kennedy. In recognizing the church’s role in providing moral leadership, we acknowledge and accept the tension that comes from being in disagreement with the church in some areas.’’
…
One of the troubling aspects of 2004 was the extent to which partisan politics invaded the churches and seemed to enlist them as part of the Republicans’ electoral apparatus. But there is a difference between defending the legitimate right of churches to speak up on public questions and the hyperpoliticization of the church itself.

more
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Primacy of conscience is not a catholic doctrine. it is miselading for them to imply it has any place in living according to the teachings of the Church. Inevtitably when Catholic Politicians start throwing around “prmacy of conscience” it means they support either abortion, contraception, homosexual marriage or all of the above.

I am disapointed that many pro-life congressman lent credibitly to this statement by adding their names.
 
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estesbob:
Primacy of conscience is not a catholic doctrine. it is miselading for them to imply it has any place in living according to the teachings of the Church. Inevtitably when Catholic Politicians start throwing around “prmacy of conscience” it means they support either abortion, contraception, homosexual marriage or all of the above.

I am disapointed that many pro-life congressman lent credibitly to this statement by adding their names.
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Since the publicly released statement is based on incorrect Catholic teaching, our Bishops should release their own statement in order to teach, correct and forestall those who may be lead in to error by this statement.
 
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Maranatha:
Since the publicly released statement is based on incorrect Catholic teaching, our Bishops should release their own statement in order to teach, correct and forestall those who may be lead in to error by this statement.
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Absolutely they should. But they wont. I am also disturbed at the language that talks about limiting unwanted preganacy as we all know that is a code word for slicing and diceing the unobrn who are not fortunate enough to qualify as “wanted”.

I kow many are going to say i am being to dogmatic-darn right i am-47 MILLION DEAD!!! Talk is cheap–it is time for the “talk” to stop and the abortions to end. There is nothing good whatsover about this satement which was evidedently designed to give cover to pro-abortion catholic politicans. Shame on those pro-life Catholics who signed it.
 
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estesbob:
Absolutely they should. But they wont. I am also disturbed at the language that talks about limiting unwanted preganacy as we all know that is a code word for slicing and diceing the unobrn who are not fortunate enough to qualify as “wanted”.

I kow many are going to say i am being to dogmatic-darn right i am-47 MILLION DEAD!!! Talk is cheap–it is time for the “talk” to stop and the abortions to end. There is nothing good whatsover about this satement which was evidedently designed to give cover to pro-abortion catholic politicans. Shame on those pro-life Catholics who signed it.
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If they were being truthful to us and to themselves, they wouldn’t say unwanted pregnancies but would say unwanted people. This would enlighten their conscious because we know what societies have done and do with wanted people.
 
What a joke! As estesbob already pointed out, there is no such thing as a “primacy of conscience”. That is like Karl Rahner’s false idea of “legitimate dissent”.
:tsktsk:
 
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Maranatha:
Since the publicly released statement is based on incorrect Catholic teaching, our Bishops should release their own statement in order to teach, correct and forestall those who may be lead in to error by this statement.
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Here, here… Bravo!
 
It amazes me that people around this board seem unwilling to at least take a breath before blasting the politicians.

First of all…when they say ‘unwanted pregnancies’…I don’t think they mean they are looking for a way to increase abortions.

Secondly, they have a point…the abortion debate is becoming such a be all and end all that we might end up with more dead through other means if we aren’t careful.

Relax folks.
 
Abortion and Gay Rights are the rocks that stops Catholics from supporting democrats. Except for that the democratic party is obviously the more christian of the 2 parties. To put it more bluntly . If it wouldn’t be for abortion Jesus would be a Communist befor he would be a Republican .
 
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frommi:
Secondly, they have a point…the abortion debate is becoming such a be all and end all that we might end up with more dead through other means if we aren’t careful.

Relax folks.
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They have a point??? BULL!!! 47 Million dead. Thats right 47 MILLION dead-and those of who point out the horor of this are contributing to more deaths ? BULL. Complete and utter nonsense … 47 MILLION dead-can you not get that through your head!!!
 
JOHNYJ.:
Except for that the democratic party is obviously the more christian of the 2 parties. .
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In what ways? in their oppostion to letting parents send their kids to the school of their choice? In their support of racial preferences? In theor support of confiscatory taxes? In their oppostion to public expression of faith?

You must be looking at a democrat party differetn from the one I left.
 
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estesbob:
They have a point??? BULL!!! 47 Million dead. Thats right 47 MILLION dead-and those of who point out the horor of this are contributing to more deaths ? BULL. Complete and utter nonsense … 47 MILLION dead-can you not get that through your head!!!
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I get the number…but I think it’s questionable at best to let yourself get played like a fiddle by politicians who claim to understand your pro-life position but do nothing about it but take symbolic votes on the issue.

America is a VERY unique country, in that it has been determined that there is a right to an abortion.

So, doesn’t it make more sense to let go of legislating this issue and start convincing people that just because you have the right to do something does not make it right to do?
 
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frommi:
I get the number…but I think it’s questionable at best to let yourself get played like a fiddle by politicians who claim to understand your pro-life position but do nothing about it but take symbolic votes on the issue.

America is a VERY unique country, in that it has been determined that there is a right to an abortion.

So, doesn’t it make more sense to let go of legislating this issue and start convincing people that just because you have the right to do something does not make it right to do?
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NOBODY PLAYS ME LIKE FIDDLE. I have been actively involved in the pro-life field for 30 years-i know who are friends are and i know who are enemies are. The fact the USSC found a right to abortion is irelevant-this country also once determoned it was ok to enslave people and send black kids to seperate schools. The issue needs to be fought on ALL fronts-both legislatively and morally. What you find “symbolic” i find a basic affirmation of the right of ALL to LIFE.

If American catholics had not blindly voted for pro-abortion candidates over the last 30 years Roe would have died in the 70s.
 
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JOHNYJ:
Abortion and Gay Rights are the rocks that stops Catholics from supporting democrats. Except for that the democratic party is obviously the more christian of the 2 parties. To put it more bluntly . If it wouldn’t be for abortion Jesus would be a Communist befor he would be a Republican .
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Have you every read the Leo XIII’s Papal Encyclical “Rerum Novarum” and then JP-II’s Encyclical “Centesimus Annus”, commerating Rerum Novarum?

Both declare Communism to be a moral evil.

And what a statement " If it wouldn’t be for abortion …" That’s pretty much like saying, “If it wasn’t for Booth, Mrs Lincoln would have enjoyed the play”

Sheesh!
 
Canon law clearly indicates that all Catholics are bound by law to give their submission to Catholic doctrines.
Can. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.

§2. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firmly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church…

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it…

Ref.:Code of Canon Law
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Canon law also implies that the Ordinary (eg. diocesan bishop) or Apostolic See (ie. Pope) will admonish public dissent with Catholic doctrine, and if they fail to retract their dissenting position after admonishment, they are to be punished with a just penalty.
Can. 1371 The following are to be punished with a just penalty:
1/ in addition to the case mentioned in can. 1364, §1, a person who teaches a doctrine condemned by the Roman Pontiff or an ecumenical council ***or who obstinately rejects the doctrine mentioned in ******can. 750, §2 or in ***can. 752 and who does not retract after having been admonished by the Apostolic See or an ordinary;

2/ a person who otherwise does not obey a legitimate precept or prohibition of the Apostolic See, an ordinary, or a superior and who persists in disobedience after a warning.
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I believe the bishops and the pope are blameworthy for not admonishing dissenting public figures such as these politicians. The pope and college of bishops have failed to exercise their authority and responsibility in accord with canon 1371.

By failing to admonish dissenting Catholics, the magisterium have created the environment of ambiguity and dissent in which we now suffer. Because they have not received specific public admonishment, these politicians have come to believe that they are not in violation of canon law and are Catholics in good standing. Only the bishops and the pope can correct this problem.

The Church must exercise their responsibility to admonish heretics in our midst otherwise this passage of Sacred Scripture is nonsensical:

Titus 3:10 “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition avoid”
 
They will fool some of the people who are determined to stay on the left.
 
I see this thread is quickly devolving into a debate about abortion rights, but that really isn’t what is troubling the Democrats who could care less if the Church teaches it’s an intrinsic evil or not. What has got them all worked up is in this paragraph:
One of the troubling aspects of 2004 was the extent to which partisan politics invaded the churches and seemed to enlist them as part of the Republicans’ electoral apparatus. But there is a difference between defending the legitimate right of churches to speak up on public questions and the hyperpoliticization of the church itself.
Click to expand...
What they really mean is that Catholic parishes ought not to talk about this issue as if it really mattered in elections. They’re scared to death we will go on opposing them and keep them and their death agenda on the run. Pretty ironic when they reserve to themselves the right to speak at black Baptist churches in an effort to rouse one of their main bases to elicit votes for their candidates. In other words, faithful Catholics should shut up, sit down, and pray while they, the Democrats, continue to wreak havoc with the lives of the vulnerable, whom they have hoodwinked into thinking they care about them, when all they really want is their votes.
 
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Della:
I see this thread is quickly devolving into a debate about abortion rights, but that really isn’t what is troubling the Democrats who could care less if the Church teaches it’s an intrinsic evil or not. What has got them all worked up is in this paragraph:

What they really mean is that Catholic parishes ought not to talk about this issue as if it really mattered in elections. They’re scared to death we will go on opposing them and keep them and their death agenda on the run. Pretty ironic when they reserve to themselves the right to speak at black Baptist churches in an effort to rouse one of their main bases to elicit votes for their candidates. In other words, faithful Catholics should shut up, sit down, and pray while they, the Democrats, continue to wreak havoc with the lives of the vulnerable, whom they have hoodwinked into thinking they care about them, when all they really want is their votes.
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I don’t think they have a death agenda…that simply doesn’t make sense. You have to at least recognize that they aren’t running around advocating people have abortions.

And I still can’t figure out why anyone would base their vote solely on someones willingness to vote in a way that will be overturned by the supreme court.

For better or worse, it doesn’t seem all that possible for us to legislate abortion away.

And it is damaging to the political process for anyone to be a single issue voter. Particularly when you cast your vote in a way that leads to no progress on the issue you advocate so strongly for.

We need good leaders, but isn’t it a little strange that abortions have gone up in this country with a Republican government?
 
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