Election 2012 - Who to vote for?

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:rolleyes: What I reject is that in doing their scholarly work in the realm of faith, the so called experts might not be wrong on something. Unless they actually lived during the times. But I dont mind if you need to put my faith down. I know none of us truly know with 100% absolute certainty matters of faith. We might believe we do but that’s different. That’s why it’s called faith to begin with and I’m just going to try to be humble as I walk in mine.
Humility… Quite a concept from a Christian who rejects the teaching of the Magisterium because he thinks he is right and they are wrong. 🤷 😛
 
Based on the OT verses I referred to? Whether the fetus is equal to the life of the mother.
Matt where does your obsession with “equal” originate? I have never seen any reference to the unborn baby having to achieve “equal” rights or value to be considered human…except in your posts. I don’t believe you made up this concept but maybe I am incorrect.
Lisa
 
Splendid! A person with all the answers (like yourself) should have no problem answering my question, which remains unanswered.
Is this your survey on which states have capital punishment? Not sure of your point but I’ll bite. Yes my state has capital punishment on the books but A) it hasn’t been used in decades and B) our current governor said if any prisoner gets an execution date he will block the execution. So effectively we don’t have it here.

And your point is what?

Lisa
 
Why should we accept your personal interpretation if Scripture?
I never said you should. And someone might not accept the interpretation you accept. Accept whatever one’s faith and whatever you feel guided by the Holy Spirit to accept in good faith and in good conscience to the best of your understanding.
 
Don’t bring up “extra-Biblical” attitudes from early Christians. They were all rubes who had no understanding of what Christ really meant. It would take hundreds of years before Protestant “scholars” could let us know how to interpret the Scripture written while the early Christians were being instructed directly by the Apostles. :rolleyes: 😛
:extrahappy: Love it…better than late night comedy! Thank you for the laugh!

Lisa
 
Humility… Quite a concept from a Christian who rejects the teaching of the Magisterium because he thinks he is right and they are wrong. 🤷 😛
Actually I never said I think I am right on everything. I actually have made it very clear I don’t know with 100% absolute certainty and no one does.
 
Actually I never said I think I am right on everything.
I never claimed you did. 🤷

I’m just recommending the “humility” you claim to aspire to. Christ left us a Church. Your views are at odds with His Magisterium, yet you have the audacity to claim humility while opposing His Church on a variety of issues. Amazing…and ironic. Humility indeed. 😛
 
Matt where does your obsession with “equal” originate? I have never seen any reference to the unborn baby having to achieve “equal” rights or value to be considered human…except in your posts. I don’t believe you made up this concept but maybe I am incorrect.
Lisa
Your church will not allow a mother to directly choose her life over the fetus.
 
What I reject is that in doing their scholarly work in the realm of faith,
They’re not doing it in the realm of faith. They’re doing it in the realm of textual criticism. Just like all students/scholars of texts do – ancient, medieval, and modern – sacred and secular.
the so called experts might not be wrong on something. Unless they actually lived during the times.
Then you must “believe” (:rolleyes:) that archaeology is also suspect. And historians “might be wrong on something” (including when they’re reading texts produced during those historic times). And those who study the History of Medicine and the History of Science “might be wrong” “because they didn’t live during those times.”

Your premises are highly anti-intellectual, CMatt. This is why experts spend their lives developing methodologies to study subjects and events they have no firsthand knowledge of. Yeah, let’s all just fold up our tents because we should resign ourselves to guesswork since we can’t have “absolute certainty.” I hope you apply that to Newtonian physics as well. You’re sure you’re “absolutely certain” of the laws of gravity? 😃 Even scientists use logical deductions to conclude what certainly happened in the past and what is highly likely to happen in the future, and there are whole areas of study in which “not living during those times” has no bearing on the certainty of conclusions about what did happen during those times. We use all kinds of other evidence (outside of eyewitnesses) to determine what happened during monarchies & imperial governments of ancient civilizations, with high levels of certitude nevertheless. And the same is true of ancient Palestine during the time of Jesus.
 
Well, you just did precisely that in your statement.

You’re arguing that my belief that “x is right and y is wrong” is wrong because there is no right or wrong. But notice that you made such a judgment yourself.

It is one thing to intellectually entertain competing and contrary thoughts while sorting them out; it’s quite another to insist that they can never be sorted out so no judgment is possible.
I’m not argung I am right. I don’t know with certainty that I am. As far as I know maybe no human has everything exactly right. But neither am I arguing there is no right or wrong. Actually I believe there is ultimate truth. I’m just saying you might believe you know what it is. But it’s placing faith in that you know. We walk by faith. Not by sight.
 
What about this in the Didache?

The Didache, a second-century catechism for young converts, states, “Do not murder a child by abortion or kill a newborn infant” (Didache 2.2). Clement of Alexandria maintained that “those who use abortifacient medicines to hide their fornication cause not only the outright murder of the fetus, but of the whole human race as well” (Paedogus 2:10.96.1).

Defending Christians before Marcus Aurelius in A.D. 177, Athenagoras argued, “What reason would we have to commit murder when we say that women who induce abortions are murderers, and will have to give account of it to God? …The fetus in the womb is a living being and therefore the object of God’s care” (A Plea for the Christians, 35.6).

Tertullian said, “It does not matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to the birth. In both instances, destruction is murder” (Apology, 9.4). Basil the Great affirmed, “Those who give abortifacients for the destruction of a child conceived in the womb are murderers themselves, along with those receiving the poisons” (Canons, 188.2). Jerome called abortion “the murder of an unborn child” (Letter to Eustochium, 22.13). Augustine warned against the terrible crime of “the murder of an unborn child” (On Marriage, 1.17.15). Origen, Cyprian, and Chrysotom were among the many other prominent theologians and church leaders who condemned abortion as the killing of children. New Testament scholar Bruce Metzger comments, “It is really remarkable how uniform and how pronounced was the early Christian opposition to abortion.” [10]
One can place faith in these writings and in the ECFs and Catholic interpretation of them.
 
They’re not doing it in the realm of faith.
LOL. Scripture is a matter of faith. You do realize don’t you not everyone accepts one God as you and I do. Or the story of Christ resurrecting from the tomb and ascending into heaven. I’m done responding to you tonight. Actually you’d be the first on my ignore list if I was sure you weren’t going to comment about me.
 
I am open to hearing about which of the two leading Presidential candidates are more in line with Catholic teaching (yes, I know one is a Mormon).

Peace,
Ed 🙂
For me its simple. Obama is waging open war against the Catholic Church with obamacare (HHS Mandate). That is unacceptable. Romney, while a goon when it comes to fiscal responsibility, and the fact that he is theologically unsound (being mormon) he’s still the lesser of the two evils (I don’t mean that mormons are evil, but romney is very greedy with his money and a bad person). We’re between a rock and a hard place right now. But with one candidate waging war against the Church and the other candidate NOT waging war on the Church…it should be a very simple and clear cut vote for americans of faith (even if you’re not Catholic).
 
Scripture is a matter of faith.
No, CMatt. Scripture is a text. It is concrete. It was written down. It recorded a long oral tradition. Belief in an unseen God or unseen gods- with or without a scriptural tradition, monotheistic or polytheistic is a matter of faith.

Shakespearean texts are simlarly not “a matter of faith.” They are texts, like sacred texts. They were authored, in real life, verifiably.
You do realize don’t you not everyone accepts one God as you and I do. Or the story of Christ resurrecting from the tomb and ascending into heaven.
That doesn’t mean that the texts describing those events are not texts. Scriptural analysis does not necessarily establish historical fact. It establishes the meaning of what was said/recorded. If the meaning is an ascension, that’s what the meaning of the words is. Believing their true intended meaning is another step. But it’s not simply open for infinite interpretations as to what the meaning is. Their intended meaning is something verifiable.
I’m done responding to you tonight.
That’s CMatt. Don’t agree with him? He’s “done with you.” Including in areas he has no expertise in.
 
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