Election 2012 - Who to vote for?

[rlg94086]

As has been explained, the term "pro-choice " is a joke. It depicts the option that the mother has for killing the baby. That is called pro-death or perhaps pro-abortion. The voiceless martyr in the womb has no say, no voice and no choice as to whether the mother chooses to kill him/her.

I agree. While I do use the term “pro-choice,” it would be non-sensical if the term was applied to murder, rape, slavery, etc.

the ‘choice’ mentioned is the choice of the murderer/rapist/slaveholder. The victim, under the best of circumstances, has no choice in anything.

 

[rlg94086]

It breaks my heart.

Mine too.

Until people recognize that they are murdering an innocent, unborn child, the practice will continue. Obviously, it should be against he law.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

As has been explained…Esquire… the term "pro-choice " is a joke. It depicts the option that the mother has for killing the baby. That is called pro-death or perhaps pro-abortion. The voiceless martyr in the womb has no say, no voice and no choice as to whether the mother chooses to kill him/her.

As has been explained, even the unborn child of a loving couple anxious to have the baby also has no voice and no choice about ANYTHING.

It’s simply a term that one side uses, just as the other side prefers pro-life.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I agree. While I do use the term “pro-choice,” it would be non-sensical if the term was applied to murder, rape, slavery, etc.

the ‘choice’ mentioned is the choice of the murderer/rapist/slaveholder. The victim, under the best of circumstances, has no choice in anything.

Just as some states are “pro-choice” about the application of the death penalty while others are not, forbidding it. I see both terms simply as labels used by the opposing factions as related to abortion.

 

[rlg94086]

As has been explained, even the unborn child of a loving couple anxious to have the baby also has no voice and no choice about ANYTHING.

It’s simply a term that one side uses, just as the other side prefers pro-life.

Sure, but “pro-life” is a more accurate descriptor, is it not? Does accuracy matter, or are you pro-choice when it comes to terms?

 

[rlg94086]

Just as some states are “pro-choice” about the application of the death penalty while others are not, forbidding it. I see both terms simply as labels used by the opposing factions as related to abortion.

No one uses the term “pro-choice” when it comes to the application of the death penalty, because it would be absurd.

Thank you for strengthening my point.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Sure, but “pro-life” is a more accurate descriptor, is it not?

Not so sure. Pro-being-born-full-term-and-alive is probably the most accurate. Some three decades ago, when my wife was very much active in the “pro-life” movement, there were some there who wanted no more than a live baby, and left the rest to the mother, regardless how prepared she was to care for an infant. Not a lot of that, mind you, but enough to give pause as to what some of those ladies really meant by being pro-life.

 

[Mickey]

Obama has been a force of destruction on this economy and this country.

Absolutely.

As to the thread, any Catholic who votes for Obama is complicit in expanding the slaughter of innocent unborn life.

Yes.

I just hope these misguided souls have learned something since then.

I pray for that also. The Catholic parishioners can be force to be reckoned with in this election…a force that can make a difference in defense of our pre-born children.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

No one uses the term “pro-choice” when it comes to the application of the death penalty, because it would be absurd.

Wasn’t referring to any popular use of the term, but to what we have in the U.S. a state-by-state choice as to imposing or not imposing the death penalty. Wasn’t as clear as I should have been.

 

[rlg94086]

Not so sure. Pro-being-born-full-term-and-alive is probably the most accurate. Some three decades ago, when my wife was very much active in the “pro-life” movement, there were some there who wanted no more than a live baby, and left the rest to the mother, regardless how prepared she was to care for an infant. Not a lot of that, mind you, but enough to give pause as to what some of those ladies really meant by being pro-life.

So, you don’t believe “life” is an accurate term for a live baby? Weird.

The right of that baby to be allowed to live is the fundamental basis of the pro-life movement. You may notice that “live” and “life” are very similar words.

That is not to say that we shouldn’t care about helping expectant and new mothers, but you are extending the meaning to something beyond what it is…the fundamental right to not be killed.

 

[Mickey]

As has been explained, even the unborn child of a loving couple anxious to have the baby also has no voice and no choice about ANYTHING.

If the child is being brought to term in a loving family…there is no need for the child to protest. If the decision has been made for termination, the child has no choice and no voice.

It’s simply a term that one side uses

No, Esquire. It is a term that is used in an attempt to sugar-coat and de-emphasize the fact that a decision has been made to murder the baby.

 

[rlg94086]

Wasn’t referring to any popular use of the term, but to what we have in the U.S. a state-by-state choice as to imposing or not imposing the death penalty. Wasn’t as clear as I should have been.

True. We were discussing the nonsensical use of the term “pro-choice,” and you chose to illustrate your point by using the term in a non-sensical matter.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

No, Esquire. It is a term that is used in an attempt to sugar-coat and de-emphasize the fact that a decision has been made to murder the baby.

Bingo. The term pro-choice means nothing. If you choose life, there is a term for that (pro-life). What you are left with is the other choice: for abortion, plain and simple.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

So, you don’t believe “life” is an accurate term for a live baby?

A live baby is a live baby. (adjective) A life baby (noun) would seem to be a baby who will be a baby for his entire life. Not sure what your point is.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

True. We were discussing the nonsensical use of the term “pro-choice,” and you chose to illustrate your point by using the term in a non-sensical matter.

“Pro-choice” is no more or less nonsensical than “pro-life.”

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

If the child is being brought to term in a loving family…there is no need for the child to protest. If the decision has been made for termination, the child has no choice and no voice.

I didn’t say anything about protesting. No unborn child has a choice or voice in anything.

No, Esquire. It is a term that is used in an attempt to sugar-coat and de-emphasize the fact that a decision has been made to murder the baby.

Don’t buy into your loaded vocabulary, but you may say whatever you like and call anything whatever you like.

I am very much against abortion, but don’t use loaded terms like so many on this Forum do.

 

[rlg94086]

A live baby is a live baby. (adjective) A life baby (noun) would seem to be a baby who will be a baby for his entire life. Not sure what your point is.

Seriously? What is your point? Can we just consult the dictionary for the meaning of “life?” ( ) There are multiple, of course, but the very first is appropos here:

*life noun \ˈlīf
plural lives

Definition of LIFE

1
a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body
b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings
c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction *

There is nothing inaccurate in the use of the term “pro-life” when describing a movement that is all about preventing an innocent, unborn human from becoming a dead body due to someone else’s “choice.”.

 

[LisaA]

Sure, but “pro-life” is a more accurate descriptor, is it not? Does accuracy matter, or are you pro-choice when it comes to terms?

Pro life is good and I also try to use the Catholic “I’m Pro our Consistent Life Ethic” because it goes from “womb to tomb” as my Priest described it. That way the objection that “all you care about is forcing women to bear babies they don’t want and then you walk away” or those who are trying to promote euthanasia can’t claim we are all about forcing pregnancy or maintaining people on machines when they are clearly at the end of life.

It’s clear that abortion advocates like “Pro Choice” or “Reproductive Freedom” because they need to hide the gory business of abortion. Choice and Freedom are very positive terms and have been used to the advantage of the abortion lobby/supporters. They don’t want to use accurate terms or let women see their unborn babies. Funny how they fight and scream about ultrasounds or in demanding that women truly are counseled on their choices rather than pushing them into abortions. It’s a dirty little secret and they want to keep it that way.

Lisa

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

There is nothing inaccurate in the use of the term “pro-life” when describing a movement that is all about preventing an innocent, unborn human from becoming a dead body due to someone else’s “choice.”.

I wholly agree. It’s a perfectly legitimate term. I also see how “pro-choice” is an equally legitimate term.

 

[rlg94086]

“Pro-choice” is no more or less nonsensical than “pro-life.”

I know you believe that. You already mentioned the “pro-choice” death penalty idea.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out the absurdity of being “pro-choice” when it comes to murdering an innocent, unborn child, as equivalent to being “pro-choice” when it comes to murder, slavery, genocide, rape, etc.

If you wish to apply “pro-life” to social issues because of the other meanings of “life,” then have at it. There are no innocents harmed in any usage of “pro-life;” not so much for the evils committed in the name of “choice.”