Electoral college

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In_Hoc_Signo312 said:
As far as I’m concerned, if there’s any doubt to who won Florida, it falls squarely on Al Gore and his campaign. I don’t believe he ever tried to get a statewide recount, which would have saved us all a lot of time, money, and stress if they did that.
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The whole point to the Gore campaign wasn’t an accurate recount, which would have showed Bush winning.

The point was to give the Democrats enough time to stuff ballot boxes and magically “find” boxes of ballots in cars.
 
Tomdstone said:
Why do Americans take so long to count their votes? It goes a lot quicker in other countries. I haven’t heard of any other country taking 16 years to count their votes?
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Hopefully we have learned how to design our ballots so that the intention of the voter is not left to a committee to figure out.
 
SuperLuigi said:
The whole point to the Gore campaign wasn’t an accurate recount, which would have showed Bush winning.

The point was to give the Democrats enough time to stuff ballot boxes and magically “find” boxes of ballots in cars.
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Pretty much.In fact GW offered a statewide recount of ballots.Gore,chose to cherry pick the counties where he believed he would prevail.Yest,he still lost but then just like now,He really won the popular vote and GW stole the election.
 
Jeanne_S said:
…GW stole the election.
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Americans often say that the elections in Russia or other countries are not fair. But are elections in America fair, when someone goes around stealing an election and becoming president?
 
The Electoral College worked as designed. It was designed to not allow the largest states by population to completely dominate the presidential elections. It was only through this institution and through the creation of the Senate that the small states agreed to ratify the Constitution. Without that, there would have been no United States of America as we know it.

Are there problems with it? Could it be tweaked? Should it be done away with? Those are questions that shouldn’t be addressed by trying to overturn the election that was a done deal as this one was. They should be addressed by the mechanism specified in the Constitution itself: submit an Amendment and go through the effort to have the approval of all the institutions that have a voice in its ratification.

Trump makes the very cogent remark that had the rules been different, he would have conducted his campaign differently. As in, spent more time in California and New York and less time in some of the least populated states. I dare say the margin would have been closer as there were a lot of Republicans who stayed home in California because there was almost no Republican candidate on most of their ballots. What if they knew their votes would count after all, they would have been more likely to show up.

Finally, regarding vote cheating, believe they found a bunch of questionable precincts in Detroit for which the votes had to be thrown out in the recount.
 
Tomdstone said:
Americans often say that the elections in Russia or other countries are not fair. But are elections in America fair, when someone goes around stealing an election and becoming president?
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Nice way to cherry pick my comment.GW didn’t steal the election.Regardless of what the Dems think.:rolleyes:
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
The Electoral College worked as designed. It was designed to not allow the largest states by population to completely dominate the presidential elections. It was only through this institution and through the creation of the Senate that the small states agreed to ratify the Constitution. Without that, there would have been no United States of America as we know it.
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Were they designed to be winner-take-all from each state though? I don’t think so. There are some primaries which also work on this principle. It seems it’s basically done for convenience and lets-just-get-it-over-with with no real thought behind the process. The winner-take-all seems to be “genius” for only those who happen to benefit from it.
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
Finally, regarding vote cheating, believe they found a bunch of questionable precincts in Detroit for which the votes had to be thrown out in the recount.
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Then there should be an investigation into it. This shouldn’t happen every election cycle.

Also maybe they should look into the matter of some 7 million absentee (live outside the US for whatever reason) voters who have all been lumped into CA, WA, and NY, as though it does them any good.
 
ProVobis said:
I will be the first to agree with that.

So why did they overturn the Florida Supreme Court in 2000 and order the counting to stop? The Constitution already provides a mechanism to select a President if neither reaches 270 EVs.

By the way, the jury is still out as to who had the most votes in Florida that year.
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Can you imagine how disastrous that scenario would have been under a national plebiscite? We would still be fighting the battle , in every precinct in every state.
 
Tomdstone said:
Americans often say that the elections in Russia or other countries are not fair. But are elections in America fair, when someone goes around stealing an election and becoming president?
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Bush didn’t steal the election. Kennedy may have, however, or at least his operatives may have in Illinois and Texas
 
Erich said:
You missed my point,which was that Clinton can only claim to have won the national popular vote because of California. Someone earlier in this thread pointed out that Trump won 50% more states than Clinton, and an order of magnitute more counties (i.e. a landslide by any measure), so your meme isn’t exactly as solid as you think it is.

Personally, I’d be happy to trade California for another Kansas 😃
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I laugh when people say lets not count CA. If we don’t count TX, Donald Trump failed to win 270 Electoral votes.
 
Sy_Noe said:
I laugh when people say lets not count CA. If we don’t count TX, Donald Trump failed to win 270 Electoral votes.
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If it bothers them that these states are too big for them, we could break them up and get extra senators and electoral votes out of it.

CA is basically penalized for being too big.
 
As I heard someone (I forget who) say, the point of not having a straight popular vote is to prevent what happens when two wolves and a sheep vote on what’s for dinner.

There’s nothing wrong with cities, but we need to have a government that represents all of the types of people, not just the most populous type. As Zzyzx Road pointed out (in an excellent post), without some type of insurance that one type of state couldn’t completely dominate the others, there wouldn’t be a United States at all.

But I, like others on this thread, think that the proper answer is to make the office of the President less important by returning to the states the powers and responsibilities which properly belong to them. 😃 Then it wouldn’t matter so much how the EC worked. (Although I think it works properly as it is.)

–Jen
 
ProVobis said:
If it bothers them that these states are too big for them, we could break them up and get extra senators and electoral votes out of it.

CA is basically penalized for being too big.
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They get far more electoral votes than any other state. 55 votes! That’s not being penalized.
 
revert_jen said:
As I heard someone (I forget who) say, the point of not having a straight popular vote is to prevent what happens when two wolves and a sheep vote on what’s for dinner.

There’s nothing wrong with cities, but we need to have a government that represents all of the types of people, not just the most populous type. As Zzyzx Road pointed out (in an excellent post), without some type of insurance that one type of state couldn’t completely dominate the others, there wouldn’t be a United States at all.

**But I, like others on this thread, think that the proper answer is to make the office of the President less important by returning to the states the powers and responsibilities which properly belong to them. 😃 Then it wouldn’t matter so much how the EC worked. (Although I think it works properly as it is.) **

–Jen
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:clapping:
 
ProVobis said:
If it bothers them that these states are too big for them, we could break them up and get extra senators and electoral votes out of it.

CA is basically penalized for being too big.
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How are they bring penalized? They get 55 Electoral Votes! Again if you look at a map of the U.S. it is glaringly obvious,that outside of Ca,NY this country is Red.Do these folks not deserve equal consideration,how elitist!:rolleyes:
 
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