Elijah

[thomas_jd]

The cosmos? So, is Elijah (Elias) orbitting Jupiter or what?

I"ll take the or what.

 

[NotWorthy]

I"ll take the or what.

Well, the cosmos is what we now call outer space, right? Although my question was in jest, it still remains, where would our good Elijah be? What would he be taken up to, if not heaven?

 

[thomas_jd]

Well, the cosmos is what we now call outer space, right? Although my question was in jest, it still remains, where would our good Elijah be? What would he be taken up to, if not heaven?

I must of missed your question. The bible describes his chariot ride and no more.The place of waiting for the deceased before the resurrection was hell. “was crucified died and was buried, He decended into hell and on the third day He ascended into Heaven” etc per Apostles Creed.
The hell mentioned in the Creed is the place assigned to all in anticipation of the opening of the gates of Heaven. Moses, St Joseph, David, etc. waited there.
This hell means the absense of God as opposed to the hell inhabited by the devil and his fallen brothers. After the resurrection Elijah gained entrance into heaven.

 

[NotWorthy]

I must of missed your question. The bible describes his chariot ride and no more.The place of waiting for the deceased before the resurrection was hell.

So, the chariots picked him up and whisked him to Hades (or Sheol in Hebrew).

Is this Church teaching or your opinion?

 

[thomas_jd]

So, the chariots picked him up and whisked him to Hades (or Sheol in Hebrew).

Is this Church teaching or your opinion?

The church teaches there are more than one meaning for Heaven and hell.
The church teaches than the gates of heaven were closed until after the resurrection.
The church teaches Elijah was taken up into “heaven”.
The church teaches Elijah was in attendence at the transformation.
The church teaches thru the Apostles Creed Jesus decended into hell.
I will not state the church teachings on the waiting area where Elijah was .
Yet that is what I was taught.
You stated that he was in Heaven.The gates were closed. Hades /Sheol?
It seems you are just stirring up the pot. All the above is easy to find scripiturally, with the exception of the waiting area.

 

[NotWorthy]

The church teaches there are more than one meaning for Heaven and hell.
The church teaches than the gates of heaven were closed until after the resurrection.
The church teaches Elijah was taken up into “heaven”.
The church teaches Elijah was in attendence at the transformation.
The church teaches thru the Apostles Creed Jesus decended into hell.
I will not state the church teachings on the waiting area where Elijah was .
Yet that is what I was taught.
**You stated that he was in Heaven.**The gates were closed. Hades /Sheol?
It seems you are just stirring up the pot. All the above is easy to find scripiturally, with the exception of the waiting area.

In the spirit of “stirring the pot”, you claim that I stated he was in heaven. Where did I state this?

Also, what do you mean by stirring up the pot? I’m not trying to antagonize your or anybody.

With that said, back to the subject. Why couldn’t Elijah be assumed into heaven, just as Mary has been assumed into heaven.

And I’m serious about you saying Elijah went into hades. You said you were taught this? I’ve never heard this, which is why I’m asking. I’m familiar with a lot of what Mother Church teaches, but not this.

 

[Cashue]

Yes this is right, Elijah never died. As scripture says, you don’t have to die to go to heaven, some people will go up there in their flesh and blood bodies (I think there is a scripture that actually says "flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom of heavens). So Elijah when into the sky and then into space where he did not need to breath air (it was a miracle) and then into heaven itself with his physical body. He has been living there ever since and god will soon send him back down to the earth.

 

[thomas_jd]

In the spirit of “stirring the pot”, you claim that I stated he was in heaven. Where did I state this?

Also, what do you mean by stirring up the pot? I’m not trying to antagonize your or anybody.

With that said, back to the subject. Why couldn’t Elijah be assumed into heaven, just as Mary has been assumed into heaven.

And I’m serious about you saying Elijah went into hades. You said you were taught this? I’ve never heard this, which is why I’m asking. I’m familiar with a lot of what Mother Church teaches, but not this.

post # 23 : Mary was assumed into Heaven after the gates were opened by Christ. Elijah may have been assumed at a later date than this thread is focusing on. Elijah waited in Hell “the absence of God” per the Apostles Creed definition. Somewhere along my spiritual journey someone gave this opinion. There is no definitive teaching that we have on his waiting in hell, but I don’t think he was enjoying a chariot ride from the time of his
departure until the Resurrection. Hades is associated with the devils presence, that is
where i find you trying to stir things up. Good luck in a alternate opinion, but this is mine.

 

[peary1]

I read somewhere that he was suppossed to come again. He ascended into Heaven so he never died, and is suppossed to return to Earth. Is this true?

That is what orthodox Jews believe, and why, at the Seder table, a place is always set for Elijah in case he shows up for Passover.

 

[NotWorthy]

post # 23 : Mary was assumed into Heaven after the gates were opened by Christ. Elijah may have been assumed at a later date than this thread is focusing on. Elijah waited in Hell “the absence of God” per the Apostles Creed definition. Somewhere along my spiritual journey someone gave this opinion. There is no definitive teaching that we have on his waiting in hell, but I don’t think he was enjoying a chariot ride from the time of his
departure until the Resurrection. Hades is associated with the devils presence, that is
where i find you trying to stir things up. Good luck in a alternate opinion, but this is mine.

I think I understand now where you are getting the opinion that I’m stirring things up. Hades and Sheol are not Hell. When Jesus descended “into hell” He descended into Hades (or Sheol). If you read the psalms, you will note that there is nothing about any punishment while someone is in Sheol, other than utter nothingness. Certainly no demons or devils. The hell that is associated with the devil is the Hell that Jesus speaks of when he speaks of the fires of Gehenna where the worm does not die. You’ll find that we have done an awful job of differentiating from the poor translation that has resulted in the over usage of “Hell”.

But you still are forgetting something. Didymus went to heaven prior to the Resurrection “today you will be with me in paradise”. And I still think you are trying to limit the power of God. Didn’t Enoch and Elijah go up into heaven?

 

[thomas_jd]

I think I understand now where you are getting the opinion that I’m stirring things up. Hades and Sheol are not Hell. When Jesus descended “into hell” He descended into Hades (or Sheol). If you read the psalms, you will note that there is nothing about any punishment while someone is in Sheol, other than utter nothingness. Certainly no demons or devils. The hell that is associated with the devil is the Hell that Jesus speaks of when he speaks of the fires of Gehenna where the worm does not die. You’ll find that we have done an awful job of differentiating from the poor translation that has resulted in the over usage of “Hell”.

But you still are forgetting something. Didymus went to heaven prior to the Resurrection “today you will be with me in paradise”. And I still think you are trying to limit the power of God. Didn’t Enoch and Elijah go up into heaven?

Didymus, Enoch, and Elijah did not enter Heaven until after the Resurrection.
Didymus was in paradise the night of his death. TO BE ANYWHERE WITH GOD IS TO BE IN PARADISE. Jesus did not ascend to Heaven for three days. Elijah was taken up into the sky in a chariot, the heavens referred to as the cosmos. As for Enoch, I shutter thinking where that could lead, No proof, in describing Enoch, they said he walked with God. They infer Heaven but we know that is not enough. I couldn’t,limit Gods power, nor would I want to.God usually follows the Law he gave us. That is my reasoning,yet with God anything is possible. You have made this a challenge for me and I don’t quite understand your reasoning but let’s just say we don’t think alike. I am not going to spend anymore time on this thread. Pray for me and I will pray for you!!

 

[NotWorthy]

Didymus, Enoch, and Elijah did not enter Heaven until after the Resurrection.
Didymus was in paradise the night of his death. TO BE ANYWHERE WITH GOD IS TO BE IN PARADISE. Jesus did not ascend to Heaven for three days. Elijah was taken up into the sky in a chariot, the heavens referred to as the cosmos. As for Enoch, I shutter thinking where that could lead, No proof, in describing Enoch, they said he walked with God. They infer Heaven but we know that is not enough. I couldn’t,limit Gods power, nor would I want to.God usually follows the Law he gave us. That is my reasoning,yet with God anything is possible. You have made this a challenge for me and I don’t quite understand your reasoning but let’s just say we don’t think alike. I am not going to spend anymore time on this thread. Pray for me and I will pray for you!!

Let’s take a quick look at what the Navarre commentary says on this:

The function of the chariot and horses of fire is to separate the two prophets
when Elijah is being swept up. The book of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), in its time,
will interpret them as a sign that God has brought him up into heaven (cf. Sir
48:8-9). Chariots of fire are also a symbol of God’s presence and of his glory, as
in Psalm 68:17, for example. The fact that Elijah had not died is the reason why
he is assigned a role in the future, at the messianic restoration of the twelve tries
(cf. Sir 48:10) and before the coming of the “day of the Lord” (Mal 4:5). The figure
of Elijah is also to be found in the New Testament where he is identified with John
the Baptist, Christ’s precursor (cf. Mt 11:14, 17:10-12), in the sense that the Bap-
tist is inspired by the same spirit as inspired Elijah.

As you well know, the Navarre is rather Orthodox Catholic commentary.

But yes, in the meantime, I will pray for you, my brother!

 

[NotWorthy]

Didymus, Enoch, and Elijah did not enter Heaven until after the Resurrection.
Didymus was in paradise the night of his death. TO BE ANYWHERE WITH GOD IS TO BE IN PARADISE. Jesus did not ascend to Heaven for three days. Elijah was taken up into the sky in a chariot, the heavens referred to as the cosmos. As for Enoch, I shutter thinking where that could lead, No proof, in describing Enoch, they said he walked with God. They infer Heaven but we know that is not enough. I couldn’t,limit Gods power, nor would I want to.God usually follows the Law he gave us. That is my reasoning,yet with God anything is possible. You have made this a challenge for me and I don’t quite understand your reasoning but let’s just say we don’t think alike. I am not going to spend anymore time on this thread. Pray for me and I will pray for you!!

Here’s what Scott Hahn says about “Paradise” in the Ignatius Study Bible

*It is nothing less than the eternal dwelling of God, where Jesus promised to accompany the good thief after death and where Paul was transported in a mystical journey. This heavenly poaradise is the eternal dwelling that awaits the saints *(Rev. 2:7).

 

[adstrinity]

Jesus did not assend into Heaven until after 40 days. He ressurected on the 3rd day, but, that was just when He defeated death. He didn’t go to Heaven for 40 days, then 50 days we got the Holy Spirit.

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus did not assend into Heaven until after 40 days. He ressurected on the 3rd day, but, that was just when He defeated death. He didn’t go to Heaven for 40 days, then 50 days we got the Holy Spirit.

Ok… what does this prove, other than the obvious?

 

[ryanoneil]

I just got the same thing, Copland.

It shut down all my Mozilla tabs, and then started what looked like a false Malware scan. I hope I shut it down in time. My virus control on this PC is pretty good, but it certainly tried to take over my computer.

Note: I tried to PM you with this, but evidently you’re not taking getting PM’s.

I just got the same thing!

 

[thomas_jd]

Let’s take a quick look at what the Navarre commentary says on this:

As you well know, the Navarre is rather Orthodox Catholic commentary.

But yes, in the meantime, I will pray for you, my brother!

Thanks for the prayers. I couldn’t leave without a last reply from you. I use the Navarre Bible on occasion. I see no proof that Elijah is in Heaven with God. They use a general source instead of a specific one for thier commentaries. That is why they were not specific as to the definition of heaven that we have gone over and over. I will go to your next post now. I did mistakenly use three days instead of forty days.

 

[ryanoneil]

Enoch and Elijah will come right before the 2ndcoming of Christ. I talk about it here in my commentary on Revelation 11 litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Chapter+11

I think the NAB footnotes are revealing. When looking at Rev 11 as initially fulfilled, the two witnesses symbolize Moses and Elijah (The Law and the Prophets) who represent the entire OT. Because the OT witnessed against idol worship (the false prophet Sanhedrin ended up stopping sacrifice to Nero), Rome trampled the Temple and Jerusalem. The Old order along with stone and brick was cleared away to make way for living stones in the Church (where the Law and Prophets were resurrected).

 

[thomas_jd]

Here’s what Scott Hahn says about “Paradise” in the Ignatius Study Bible

According to the prevailing interpation of Catholic theologicans and commentators there are three paradises referred to 1: Heaven of the blessed to which the thief would accompany the Saviour, together with the souls of the rightheous of the Old Law who were awaiting the the coming of the Redeemer. ( descended into hell etc. etc.) 2: 11 corinthians. St Paul tells his readers he was caught up into Paradise during one of his ecstasies. 3: John 2:27 Clearly the Heavenly Kingdom, thought the imagery is of the the description of the garden of eden. I don’t see St Paul being transported to heaven, I think I will pass on Mr. Hahn’s interpretation in light of the opposing views.God Bless!!

 

[NotWorthy]

According to the prevailing interpation of Catholic theologicans and commentators there are three paradises referred to 1: Heaven of the blessed to which the thief would accompany the Saviour, together with the souls of the rightheous of the Old Law who were awaiting the the coming of the Redeemer. ( descended into hell etc. etc.) 2: 11 corinthians. St Paul tells his readers he was caught up into Paradise during one of his ecstasies. 3: John 2:27 Clearly the Heavenly Kingdom, thought the imagery is of the the description of the garden of eden. I don’t see St Paul being transported to heaven, I think I will pass on Mr. Hahn’s interpretation in light of the opposing views.God Bless!!

Ahhhh, but at least you’ve come to understand that I’m not trying to just “stir things up”, eh?

I’ve used the Navarre and the Ignatius Study Bible to back up my claims. I’ll admit that the Church is unsure of these natures, so I’ll respectfully accept that neither of us can call the other one “a complete raving lunatic”.

BTW, why couldn’t St. Paul have been caught up into heaven? Wasn’t St. John caught up into heaven in Revelation? Why couldn’t St. Paul have been"