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SunshineGrandma
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Jesus was a devout Jew so wouldn’t he have believed Jewish teaching on the matter? He never denounced it.
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gazelam
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esieffe
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…In other news, John Doe of somewhere city USA has announced that he is straight.
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SunshineGrandma
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Will she go to (the highest level of LDS) heaven if she is divorced from Mr. Smart and does not remarry in the temple?
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pulchraesamicamea
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I have no idea who this person is…
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jmgi1957
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Read Matt. 22:24-30. Pretty hard to twist the Scripture to say that an earthly marriage continues after the resurrection, or that new marriages occur.
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gazelam
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A non-Latter-day Saint scholar wrote the following…gazelam:
Read Matt. 22:24-30. Pretty hard to twist the Scripture to say that an earthly marriage continues after the resurrection, or that new marriages occur.
The case put forward by the Sadducees is particularly extreme. Not only had six brothers attempted and failed to impregnate the woman in question, but she had also outlived them all and was single when she died. It is perhaps this last fact which prompts the question: Whose spouse will she be in the resurrection?..Jesus stresses that in the age to come people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Notice what Jesus does not say. He does not say there will be no marriage in the age to come. The use of the terms “γαμουσιν” (gamousin) and “γαμιζονται” (gamizontai) is important, for these terms refer to the gender-specific roles played in early Jewish society by the man and the woman in the process of getting married. The men, being the initiators of the process in such a strongly patriarchal culture, “marry,” while the women are “given in marriage” by their father or another older family member. Thus Mark has Jesus saying that no new marriages will be initiated in the eschatological [resurrection] state. This is surely not the same as claiming that all existing marriages will disappear in the eschatological state .” (Ben Witherington III, The Gospel of Mark: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary, p. 328, italics added)
I hope this helps…
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gazelam
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My opinion here… If she does not remarry in the temple in this life after having the opportunity to do so (and not just a token marriage, but a loving marriage) she would forfeit Eternal Life. If she had been striving for another marriage in the temple and simply hadn’t found the right guy, she will have the opportunity in the next life (before the Resurrection), to receive that blessing.
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SunshineGrandma
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Why do LDS believe marriage is essential for heaven, even if a woman doesn’t want to remarry?
Isn’t living for Jesus (as a single woman) enough?
Where is this LDS teaching found?
From where/when did it originate?
Thank you for your responses.
Isn’t living for Jesus (as a single woman) enough?
Where is this LDS teaching found?
From where/when did it originate?
Thank you for your responses.
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jmgi1957
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No, read the passage carefully. Jesus was directly answering the Saduccees question, which was “whose wife will she be in the resurrection seeing as how THEY had all been married to her?” Jesus’ answered that at the resurrection THEY neither marry or are given in marriage, but are “like the angels in heaven.” The word “THEY” is referring to the seven brothers. If Jesus was not talking about the seven brothers here with the word “THEY”, then he wouldn’t have answered the Saduccees question at all. Jesus’ answer covers the question of marriage in heaven, 1)there will be no existing marriages carried over in heaven, and 2)no new marriages in heaven. This isn’t to say that there won’t be a special relationship of some kind between earthly spouses, but it likely won’t be marriage as we understand it.
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Chris-Wa1
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Do you want the LDS version or the true version? I’ll give you the true version. Joseph Smith had a problem with marriage fidelity. He had affairs behind his wife’s back. But he knew this couldn’t fly for long, him being the prophet and all, so he had a “revelation” that God was instituting plural/eternal (celestial) marriage. This revelation later became known as Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants, which is canon scripture in Mormonism. Joseph kept this revelation secret for some time and started marrying other women, a lot of other women…somewhere around 50 before he died, including women already married to other men and at least one 14 year-old, probably more.
Joseph tried to keep this secret from his first wife, Emma, because he knew she would most definitely not approve. She did eventually find out and was furious. She confronted him about it and demanded that he stop. So instead of doing the right thing, Joseph doubled down and had another revelation from God that Emma must accept his additional wives or face destruction. Well, apparently Emma didn’t like the sound of that, so she reluctantly capitulated. This wasn’t the only time Joseph used a threatening “revelation” to get someone to bend to his will. He did the same thing to some of the other women he wanted to marry.
To answer your first question, D&C Sect 132 is the reason eternal marriage is necessary to reach the celestial kingdom. It’s all nonsense of course, but in Mormondom it’s taken very seriously, although not fully–but that’s another topic.
As to your second question, no, in Mormondom it’s not enough for a woman to stay single and live for Jesus. The only way to the celestial kingdom is to marry in the temple. Mormons claim that if you don’t you will have the chance to do so in the afterlife, but if a single LDS woman told her family or friends that she wanted to stay single and live for Jesus, they would look at her like she’s crazy.
In the beginning, polygamy was kept to the inner circles of Mormon leadership. But when Brigham Young took over and moved the religion to Utah, he went full-on polygamy and took it to a whole other level. Being so far away from the authority of the U.S. government allowed him to do whatever he wanted, but even that did not last.
Now you may be asking yourself, how can a Mormon stay in the church knowing all this history about Joseph Smith? Well, most of them don’t know. This isn’t taught at Sunday school. The few that actually bother to read into these things and learn the true history either end up leaving or they find a way to rationalize staying in. If they stay, they often become very nuanced in their Mormonism. But as this information has become so widely proliferated in recent years through the internet, there is a growing crisis in the LDS Church of members leaving in droves.
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gazelam
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We believe marriage and having children is a commandment from God.
Matthew 19:4-6
He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.
The commandment to bear children has never been revoked. Married is required by God to keep this commandment.
1 Corinthians 11:11 Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord.
It seems to me asking whether it’s enough to live for Jesus as a single with no intention to marry, is similar to asking whether it’s OK to live for Jesus while still swearing or still fornicating, or still stealing, or still neglecting the poor.
The first eternal marriage is recorded in Genesis 2 where Eve is referred to as Adam’s wife. This reference is made before they partook of the forbidden fruit which brought death into the world. Adam and Eve were married forever.
Joseph Smith simply restored a doctrine previously lost to the world.
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bmaz
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Christ did talk about marriage, (specifically when he was denouncing divorce) and he mentioned a husband and a wife, not a husband and a husband.
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RebeccaJ
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Sure, why not after all:SunshineGrandma:
We believe marriage and having children is a commandment from God.
Matthew 19:4-6
He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.
The commandment to bear children has never been revoked. Married is required by God to keep this commandment.
1 Corinthians 11:11 Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord.
It seems to me asking whether it’s enough to live for Jesus as a single with no intention to marry, is similar to asking whether it’s OK to live for Jesus while still swearing or still fornicating, or still stealing, or still neglecting the poor.
The first eternal marriage is recorded in Genesis 2 where Eve is referred to as Adam’s wife. This reference is made before they partook of the forbidden fruit which brought death into the world. Adam and Eve were married forever.
Joseph Smith simply restored a doctrine previously lost to the world.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one Accord in one place.
Honda restored the Apostles preferred mode of transportation.
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gazelam
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I’m sure the Apostles were grateful for reliable transportation…
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RebeccaJ
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He thought he was being kind.
But yeah, I remember the lowlife because he would “preach” outside the building where I worked. His preaching was mainly yelling insults at people as they walked by. It was obvious he was at his core, just mean. Like the meanness portrayed by actors, playing a man who beats his wife and children.
Mr Smart, took him for mentally ill, and felt compassion for him. He thought he was being charitable. It was indeed a dumb mistake taking that guy home, but what that guy did was no one’s fault but his own.
A sad lesson for anyone, especially people who would lobby for things like, opening our churches for the homeless to use as shelter. We too, have our children inside.
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Odilon
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Mr. Smart’s first responsibility was for his family, to protect them at all costs. He should have helped the man in some other way, not bring him to his house like he did. Well it looks like now he has really gone off the deep end with embracing a sinful lifestyle.
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Horton
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And for the rest of the verse in context:
He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.” [His] disciples said to him, “If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” He answered, “Not all can accept [this] word, but only those to whom that is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.”
This one verse is taken completely out of context. This actually speaks to the equality of men & women in God’s eyes. It in no way supports LDS thought that marriage is necessary for eternal life.
For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels. Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God.
I think you need to read the scripture in contextual way, letting the word of God tell you what He is saying rather than having the LDS tell you what the word of God says and then cherry picking the verses that you can twist to fit the narrative of the LDS.
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RebeccaJ
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Agreed. In interviews he has said he wanted to show his children by actions, how to show charity towards others. He had good intentions. One thing with Utah Mormons, they can be kind of naive. Ponzy schemes abound here.
I don’t know anything about his personal life. I do know people can get confused when trying to reconcile traumatic events, their own role in them, and where redemption is found.
Add to that, tight knit Mormon communities in Utah have no model of normalcy.
I don’t know anything about his personal life. I do know people can get confused when trying to reconcile traumatic events, their own role in them, and where redemption is found.
Add to that, tight knit Mormon communities in Utah have no model of normalcy.
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RebeccaJ
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Most likely a Bishop along the way knew and recommended he marry and pretend to be straight. Because pretending will make happen. (sarcasm)
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