Ellen fan, but is it right?

[Bea_sMom]

srkbdk:

… I think by watching programs like this we support that type of life style, and the adverstisers see that. 10 years ago we would not have had a program called queer eye for the straight guy, but because we supported other programs heading down that path we now have this program, at some point we have to say to the people with the money enough, and one tv at a time we can do that. Who knows it may even get to the point you can turn on the tv without having to advert your eyes every time a sexmerical comes on.

You have to use your conscience, and what I found is the more I started to learn about the Church teaching the more alive, and formed my conscience became and I now enjoy turning off the TV and picking up a good book. It is so cool starting to have a conscience that talks back to me instead of being beat into submission by my sins.

God Bless and Be Safe

Ok, ok. I won’t watch Ellen anymore I guess this falls under the old saying, “If you have to ask for advice, you already know the answer.” (Darn it, she’s really funny, too! But on the bright side, now I can catch up on my missed sleep from the night before while Bea’s napping from 10 to 11… And I know Karl will be proud of me for turning off the boob tube

BTW, I’m really impressed with all your (name removed by moderator)uts! I love getting a definitive answer from the pros at CA and was afraid I’d get too many mixed messages from the gallery by placing this question in the General forum, but even though you all provided many opinions on both sides, it really helped me make my own conscious decision and one that I’m happy with THANK YOU!

Should we end this thread? If so, how?

 

[Shibboleth]

I disagree that simply watching something is wrong or sinful.

Mark 7:18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.”

 

[tmitchell2]

kellie:

I posed this question to my Priest a while ago, but didnt really get an answer as we got on to another subject.
However, he did tell me once, that we cant hide from the “real” world.
I discussed with him how hard it is to live like Jesus, in the year 2004, when Jesus didnt have such things as TV, radio, all media, computers, and new technology that affects our complete lifestyle, including what we eat drink and smoke etc.
I told him that if I was to live like Jesus, I really couldnt step out of my house. (lightheartedly of course)
He said God wants us to step out into the world, live life, be a part of all that is around us.
We know the temptations that are out there.
God knows we will be tempted, and will forgive us when we are.
Therefore, I sort of dont think watching Ellen is a sin. By watching her, you are enjoying a laugh or two, which I am sure would be music to Gods ears.
You know that her lifestyle is a sin, but I think all of our lifestyles somehow are sinful. Ellen has just made her’s more public.
As for the wife who wont support Disney, fair enough. That is a physical exchange of money at the entrance to his theme parks or other things.
The wife probably sees that as a more physical support of a sinner.
I may be rambling, but I hope I have given you something to think about until an Apologist can answer you.
Love Kellie

Hi Kellie:

I must address one part of your posting. Although Jesus did not have our modern technology to deal with, his time was JUST as sinful. One example near and dear to Jesus’ heart: Herod’s wife, who was mostly responsible for John the Baptist’s demise, was Herod’s niece AND sister-in-law. John didn’t hesitate to condemn their sinful lifestyle, and Jesus called him the GREATEST of all profits!

The Roman’s were infamous for their sexual promiscuity (orgies, homosexual sex, adultery, etc.). Jesus preached that we should be “in the world, not of the world”; He would have LOVED Ellen, but HATED her sinful lifestyle. It is true, all of us are sinners. However, when some of us sin, we repent and try to live better lives. Others don’t recognize their actions as sinful and actually PROMOTE their sinful lifestyle. Homosexuality leads to a breakdown in family life. The truth is that as the family unit in our country has declined, violent crime as increased and incarceration rates have skyrocketed as well.

Deo Gratias!

Tom

 

[wet-rat]

Bea'(name removed by moderator):

Should we end this thread? If so, how?

Well, since we are giving up TV, let’s go over to the “Good Catholic Books” thread and find something to read.

 

[Authorkat]

Shibboleth:

I disagree that simply watching something is wrong or sinful.

Mark 7:18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.”

I believe this verse was referring to food and not things we see. I think that watching something can be wrong or sinful if we suspect that it’s going to lead us to sinful thoughts.

If you’re going to watch t.v., choose to watch channels that you know are good, such as EWTN. As the saying goes, “Garbage in, garbage out.”

 

[kellie]

Hi tmitchell2,
Point taken. Jesus did live in a time of great sin. I suppose I didn’t explain my point properly. Oh well, the perils of type.
Love Kellie

 

[Shibboleth]

Authorkat:

I believe this verse was referring to food and not things we see. I think that watching something can be wrong or sinful if we suspect that it’s going to lead us to sinful thoughts.

If you’re going to watch t.v., choose to watch channels that you know are good, such as EWTN. As the saying goes, “Garbage in, garbage out.”

It does address the issue of food, but it has a greater purpose. It shows us that external things are not the source of corruption but that which comes from our hart is what corrupts.

I think that a person strong in faith can witness just about anything and continue to walk the strait and narrow path. If you suspect that something will lead you to sinful thoughts it is not the external thing that should be in question.

 

[Edwin1961]

We are told in the NT Epistles to ‘flee from sin’
And if watching the Ellen Show causes you to ponder her topics to the point of sin, Don’t watch them.

It’s the sin not the sinner that we should avoid.
DIstinguishing the one from the other is the topic of concern in today society and media.

go with God!
Edwin

 

[Exalt]

Oh, this would be a luxury.

In youth ministry, I find that it is extremely helpful to have a knowledge of youth culture. When a youth minister is trying to connect with teens, it is helpful that he or she has some way of relating to those teenagers. Talking about Family Guy or the Simpsons (I love both shows, with reservations, of course) has led me into extended conversations with teens about deeper spiritual matter. Of course, it’s just as good to know something about sports or another activity (or even computer/video gaming). Anything that helps me and other youth ministers connect with teens is absolutely vital.

Plus I really love the Simpsons.
Karl Keating:

This may not be the kind of answer you’re looking for …

But why not give up watching talk shows such as “Ellen”? Better yet, why not give up television entirely?

I stopped watching many years ago and have suffered no ill effects. (My watching was in the evenings, not during soaps time, so I didn’t have withdrawal symptoms from no longer seeing “As the World Churns” and “Days of Our Hives.”)

There even was a cachet involved in no longer watching television. I could start a conversation just by saying that I might be the only person in my city who never saw an episode of “Seinfeld.” People’s eyes would bug out in disbelief, and they’d ask me all sorts of questions.

They couldn’t imagine how I, an apparently healthy person, could have gotten by without viewing that show, and they were floored when I said I didn’t watch any other shows either.

It was like the time I went car shopping. I got in a sedan for a test drive, with the salesman seated next to me. As soon as I started the engine, he turned up the radio. I immediately pushed the Off button.

“Don’t you want to listen to how great the eleven speakers in this sound system are?”

“Not necessary. I won’t be using them.”

“Huh? You won’t be using the sound system? What do you do when you drive?”

“I think.”

His jaw dropped. He couldn’t imagine such a thing. My guess was that he had spent too much time watching television.

 

[Patjoe]

I really enjoy Ellen’s humor, but this week she added a new segment that really upsets me. At the end of her show, she goes into her “confessional,” which is complete with curtain and where the viewer is the “Confessor.” To me, this is blasphemy (even though her “confession” is her thoughts about the program that has just ended) in that profanes an integral and very sacred part of Catholicism.

This has turned me off her show, which was one of the last I have the stomach for these days. There is so much blasphemy – sit-coms are just a string of the blasphemous use of God’s Name – and sex, relieved every now and then by graphic autopsies and just plain silliness. Even the “news” devotes much of its programming to show business, which has become the national religion. What a waste of the time of everyone who watches, produces, or in any other way participates.

 

[KCT]

Karl Keating:

Listen to myself? Not a chance! That would be too discouraging. It’s enough to know that each Tuesday I inflict myself on unsuspecting listeners.

I remember hearing Fr. Benedict Groeschel say that for him, purgatory will be having to listen to all his own tapes! —KCT

 

[JCPhoenix]

I don’t see a problem with watching Ellen, if your only concern is that she lives a Gay lifestyle. So what? Is she pushing her lifestyle? Does she advertise immoral living on her show? Or do you yourself just look at her and think, “Oh, she’s Gay.” ?

Do you have the same concern about Jay Leno, or the anchors on the evening news in your area?

There is such a thing as censoring yourself into naivete’. There is nothing wrong with entertainment, and we all do need to discern what we are able to handle.

I enjoy many shows…and what I’ve learned that within my favorite shows, the immorality affects me more…such as the sexual acts of the chacters on “ER” I love the show…and will continue to watch. But I am already grounded in my faith and desire to remain chaste.

Closing the blinds on the world doesn’t make it go away. If you enjoy Ellen, watch it. Discern for yourself, not for others, if it’s something you should watch. You have a right to your own opinion and discernment specific to your life.

I LOVE Ellen in her role as Dori in “Finding Nemo.” Should I not love her part because she is Gay?

Personally, I just pray for people who choose to define themselves entirely by what is between their legs. I think there is far more to Ellen than her sexuality…why not focus on that and find the good in her? If you find her only to be an occasion for sin, then turn away.

Can you honestly cast stones at her sinfulness and pretend your own/our own isn’t equal?

Why is there so much focus on the homosexual lifestyle, as if it’s the only sin? Why should that particular sin cause boycott when gossip and slander does not?

 

[Deacon2006]

Foolishness

Most people of reason sin, but only the most brazen declare their sin to be a good created by God that needs to be embraced. The fool can’t discern between the repentant sinner and the publicly obstinate sinner.

Judging and discernment is vitally important for the development of your moral conscience and for counselling. Yes if someone holds themseleves up as a public sinner then for the good of the community we must publically denounce the sin of the action. It is always an act of mercy to chastise the sinner, educate the ignorant and counsel the illinformed. To do otherwise may lead you to the sins of omission, adulation and complisance.

Casting the first stones arguements when they quite clearly don’t apply is a bit to holier then thouish. The gay lifestyle is the moral antithesis of the lifestyle intended by God for humanity and as such must be addressed when it appears in our midsts.

God Bless

 

[Island_Oak]

Was sick to death of Ellen in her coming-out era a few years ago. Have never quite understood why a person of any persuasion feels the need to publicly announce the nature of their private sexual practices. But…since the debut of her new show and its seeming lack of agenda (gay or otherwise) I have to admit I can feel the joy she exudes when she dances for the audience and it puts a smile on my face whenever I see it.

 

[JCPhoenix]

Who here has declared sin to be good declared by God, Deacon? With all due respect your post came off as overly critical.

We are called to denounce sin, but the reality is that we all sin. Everyone on TV sins. If that person, in this case, Ellen, is promoting a gay lifestyle on her show, then boycott it. Done. If she is discussing wholesome events, if her show is not contrary to things we as Catholics believe in our moral lives, then why not watch it?

There is nothing wrong with the “throwing stones” argument. We all live in glass houses to one degree or another, and stating this is not “holier than thou” as you insinuate so strongly…rather it is recognizing that none of us should be that Pharisee praising his self righteousness while condemning the tax collecter.

So, Deacon, with your own words, are you looking at all people who are gay, and saying so publically, “Thank you God, that I am a Deacon, not a practicing lesbian like Ellen.” ???

I’m sorry if this rebuttal to your comment is offensive as I do not want to come across that way, but this was the tone of your post.

Neither I, nor anyone here is upholding sin as Good and from God. I’m saying we live in glass houses–condemn the sin, not the sinner, and if the program doesn’t uphold the sin…then let it be.

 

[Deacon2006]

JCPhoenix:

Who here has declared sin to be good declared by God, Deacon? With all due respect your post came off as overly critical.

That was the point.

I found your post waxing on her entertainment merits as if her *cause de celebrity * had nothing to do with her openly gay lifestyle.

To say we all sin is true….

But

…… if you stop there it distorts the teachings of catholic church on at least two points. By omission you leave out the prudence required to discern 1) some sins are worse then others and 2) those who struggle with sin meekly will inherit heaven and earth and not those who embrace their sin as normal. Ellen is one who through her celebrity is attempting to normalize her gay life style.

So, Deacon, with your own words, are you looking at all people who are gay, and saying so publically, “Thank you God, that I am a Deacon, not a practicing lesbian like Ellen.” ???

These are not and have never been my words. Clearly I have never made such an absurd claim and to have you accuse me of such a thing is what the church calls calumny.

In the post Vatican II church, She expects us to embrace the modern world and as such we cannot afford to play coy with the nature of mass media and celebrity on our society.

Take a stand for higher standards, just say no, pray for her conversion and turn the channel when she comes on.

God Bless

 

[JCPhoenix]

Deacon, I have no desire to offend you but I wanted to make the point in my previous post that exactly what I said is how I interpreted your words/context.

I am not by any means glorifying the entertaintment world…I in fact am pretty much sick to death of them. But as we are not discussing Hollywood, but one person, I felt that Ellen is not just what she declared openly on a sitcom…she is a human being and there is more to her.

My point is that if she is pushing the adjenda on her show of the homosexual lifestyle, then condemn it, turn it off, and by all means everyone start writing letters as to the offensiveness. Take her off the air!

However, she is talented in front of the camera, and although I have seen a part of her show only one time, I found nothing objectionable in it. With what I saw I would watch it again, unapologetically. If I then saw her promoting sin, it would be the end of it.

I have friends who are gay, and publicly so, although not to the degree of Hollywood. I live in an area very highly-populated by homosexuals, so as such, some I call friends. Should I never have coffee with them again? Should I not be there as an example of a follower of Christ, but rather condemn that person to Hell, wash my hands, dust my feet and leave them behind entirely?

I have and do sin publicly, also. I do many things wrong…and some things right. Why should I not want for someone else what I recieve for myself? Prayers, friendship, and love of Christ.

Ellen is like a friend of mine, and in some ways I identify with her (not all, not by ANY means), and I like her in some roles.

I think that homosexuality is given too much attention without bringing equal attention to the fact that other Hollywood-ites are living in sin, are divorcing, remarrying, having babies out of wedlock and prancing this all over TV…these all come from the very same sin. Why don’t we damn them all to hell also? Why do we not have discussions about them?

I stand by what I said. I’m sorry if I offended you as that was not my intention, but I interpreted your meaning as I understood it.

I also re-read my own post and I see that I came out a bit relativistic, which I also did not intend—I am far from being a moral relativist.

I don’t watch the show, so as far as content, I don’t have an opinion nor do I have a right to an opinion about it. But I do enjoy Ellen as a character in some things, such as “Finding Nemo”. I own the movie, and I will continue to enjoy it whether you approve of her presence in it or not.

Big deal. She’s Gay. Let’s all pray for her conversion, but use positive reinforcement in glorifying the good in her, not the things reinforcing her sin.

Remember…she was popular before she ever “came out.” She “made it” before she ever announced her disordered thought process to the world.

 

[SweetPea]

If she’s funny, she’s funny. I can’t believe anyone would actually get all tied up in knots about liking a lesbian comedianne.

Does she swear? Use dirty words? Fill her monologue with nasty sexual innuendo? Does she say mean things and slander other people? Or is she just, plain funny?

Laugh and don’t worry about it.

 

[rayne89]

Just my :twocents: .
I never really cared for Ellen myself even before she “came ot of the closet” We don’t watch TV at home (other than videos). It became too hard to find out what was ok for my daughter to watch and what wasn’t.

But that being said uh… a very large portion of hollywood actors, comdians, producers, directors… live immoral life styles. Sex out side of marriage, infidelity, most support abortion rights, stem cell research and homosexuality among other things. If the only reason you’d feel guilty watching Ellen is because she’s gay -you’d better stop watching TV and movies altogether.

What I would look at is content. The confessional thing someone mentioned earlier would be a huge turn off in my opinon. I’ve never seen more than a few minutes of her talk show. Does she openly promote the gay life style with the type of topics she addresses. If yes, than I would change the channel.

 

[puzzleannie]

kellie:

I discussed with him how hard it is to live like Jesus, in the year 2004, when Jesus didnt have such things as TV, radio, all media, computers, and new technology that affects our complete lifestyle, including what we eat drink and smoke etc.

Jesus, and all the observant Jews of his day, lived in the shadow of the Roman Empire whose leadership and upper classes had already embarked on its 400 year marathon to industriously tearing down every moral and religious code that had built up the Roman Republic and upon which the empire was founded that ruled the known world. The Jews had resolutely defended their faith and “family values” against the cultural tide of Hellenism for at least 200 years prior to the birth of Jesus (Maccabees 1 & 2 tell the story) which threatened every aspect of Jewish belief, culture, life, work, religious observance, family purity, what to eat and drink, in other words, threats to “their complete lifestyle”.

Jesus was thoroughly acquainted from infancy, as were his parents and family, with the threats to their belief, way of life and very existence that were part of the prevailing political, social, technological, economic and cultural mores. Even Jewish leadership–political in the form of the replacement and debasement of the royal line with the family of Herod, and religious in the form of the descendents of Zaddok, the Sadducees debasing the temple priesthood–had succumbed to the influence of the prevailing culture.

Without the faithful remnant of Israel, a tiny proportion of Jews alive at that time, the Pharisees who preserved and passed on the traditions of Jewish observance of God’s law there would be no Judaism as it exists today in the observant Orthodox Jewish faith, life and practice. It is a fallacy to argue that relaxation or change of the moral teaching and practice of the Catholic faith should be encouraged in order to conform to the prevailing culture, because “Jesus did not have to contend with” such influences. We must be very careful to read and understand history fully before appealing to history to back up present day assumptions and prescriptions.