Emasculation of the church in the states

[prodigalson12]

I have a lot to contend with, with my local parish. It’s tiny, and largely influenced by the women in the church, to the point, they have totally emasculated it, and it’s not getting any better unless someone steps in.

I was floored when I mentioned that it would be good to keep the doors open for those of us that wanted to pop in and pray in front of the Sacrament, I was told by the new receptionist, that it’s not showing proper respect, and I’m going, who are you to make policy on this matter. Our choir is just as bad, these gals pick music that only women can sing to, none of them can read a lick of music, so their translations always come out with a completely feminite, almost new age, celtic sound, which makes it nearly impossible for the men to sing to. The bulk of those serving the alter, doing the readings, and helping out, are women as well, and I’m seeing all too often, families attending with the father not even present, obviously letting the wife be the spiritual leader. There doesn’t seem to be any men that even work at the parish, except for one guy that doesn’t seem to have a formal roll there, and I’m going, let them have their way and we’d have a woman priest as well to boot. We just had our last one leave, he was very effeminate, so par for the course on this one.

Don’t ge me wrong here, women play a vital roll in the church, but it very much seems that they are now playing way, way too big of a roll, doing the work the men are supposed to be doing, and God forbid you to take initiative as a man, and not bow down to their watered down, politically correct agenda’s. In the states, this is a big, big problem, and the priests I see that are pointing out how we should be showing reverence towards the mass, are largely shunned because they don’t quite fit into the social scene, largely dominated by the female parishioners.

I’ll be taking a larger roll in mine, for the moment, leading through example and sticking out like a sore thumb, I’ll give our new priest time to take note of the struggle of what’s going on, and give him the benefit of the doubt, I absolutely hope he doesn’t try to fit into the parish, but makes the parish fit into what the tradition mandates. Time will tell, and it looks like I have some work on my hands here, I do fully expect to face a series of conflicts from these gals for they shouldn’t be in charge, that is the Priests job, not theirs.

 

[PPeterson]

i’m sorry to hear that. at my church we have a weight room where i hit up a few sets of heavy power cleans before mass. after the recessional i normally hit the showers where me and the other guys snap our towels at each other and talk about fishing/sports/trucks.

 

[cathguy]

i’m sorry to hear that. at my church we have a weight room where i hit up a few sets of heavy power cleans before mass. after the recessional i normally hit the showers where me and the other guys snap our towels at each other and talk about fishing/sports/trucks.

This is a very flippant response to a very serious problem. Speaking as a man, I for one find it insulting.

 

[Crystal_H]

First of all, thanks for “manning up” and taking an active role In your parish. I do want to say, as a woman, that your post is offensive.

Perhaps, you need to encourage your brothers in Christ to take a more active role also and not blame the women in your parish for the lack of male participation.

I belong to a small rural parish with strong men and women who are vibrant members. Most are beloved seniors and I do not see many young men willing to help or even interested in their faith. More women are willing to help and DO.

You have identified some “problems” in your parish, what do YOU propose to do to change that? How are YOU going to assist in encouraging and bringing your brothers to ministry?

By the way, we had to unfortunately “lock” the church due to some vandals. But everyone knows the how to ask the secretary to open the door or get the code…Maybe this was problem and you didn’t know about it?

I hope it turns around for you and I hope that YOU are able to make a difference.

-C

 

[Looking_back]

When it’s women being called on to do so much, one should expect a feminine touch to these things. As a woman, I can tell you if I’m alone in the church office, or one of very few in the church, I want the door locked as well. I’m all for people popping in, but I’m not putting my safety on the line for it.

 

[Cristiano]

This is a very flippant response to a very serious problem. Speaking as a man, I for one find it insulting.

Speaking as a man I find it insulting that women get blamed for the shortcomings of men.

 

[cathguy]

I have a lot to contend with, with my local parish. It’s tiny, and largely influenced by the women in the church, to the point, they have totally emasculated it, and it’s not getting any better unless someone steps in.

This is a common problem throughout the Church right now. It is an amazing irony that men feel largely turned off by their priests and their religion given the fact that Holy Orders is a sacrament limited to men.

I was floored when I mentioned that it would be good to keep the doors open for those of us that wanted to pop in and pray in front of the Sacrament, I was told by the new receptionist, that it’s not showing proper respect, and I’m going, who are you to make policy on this matter.

This sounds like a problem with your pastor. He isn’t exercising his authority in teaching the receptionist her proper role at the very least. At the worst he agrees with her. Either way, you need to respectfully take it up with him. Keeping the Church open for holy hours is NOT disrespectful. At the very least the receptionist is ignorant of Catholic tradition. She certainly shouldn’t overstep her role that way.

Our choir is just as bad, these gals pick music that only women can sing to, none of them can read a lick of music, so their translations always come out with a completely feminite, almost new age, celtic sound, which makes it nearly impossible for the men to sing to.

Interesting. Getting men to the join the choir is a perennial problem. No Schola?

I am thinking you may need to check out a parish with a more traditional Catholic praxis.

In the new Mass, the choirs job is NOT to give a concert, but to lead the congregation in singing. Sounds like the music director has issues to deal with.

But be patient. The music director probably only gets ladies to volunteer and is probably doing his or her best. The thing to do here is share your concerns respectfully with the pastor. I would let this issue slide (unless they are doing non-Catholic or offensive music).

The bulk of those serving the alter, doing the readings, and helping out, are women as well, and I’m seeing all too often, families attending with the father not even present, obviously letting the wife be the spiritual leader.

BIG BIG problem and a huge warning sign that something is awry.

Studies have been done proving the importance of the father’s involvement in Mass going and taking the family to Mass. It is impossible to tell, but this sounds like a liberal touchy feely parish from what you are describing. These children who are attending Mass when their father does not will likely not practice the faith in adulthood.

There doesn’t seem to be any men that even work at the parish, except for one guy that doesn’t seem to have a formal roll there, and I’m going, let them have their way and we’d have a woman priest as well to boot. We just had our last one leave, he was very effeminate, so par for the course on this one.

Talk to your new pastor respectfully. He has a lot to deal with here.

You know, in your pastor’s defense, consider this:

Catholic men have families to support. How many Catholic men could support a family on the salaries paid by the Church? Not many. Thus many Church employees are women earning a little extra money. This is not intentional on anyone’s part, and as a general rule we should always be as charitable as possible.

Don’t get me wrong here, women play a vital roll in the church, but it very much seems that they are now playing way, way too big of a roll, doing the work the men are supposed to be doing, and God forbid you to take initiative as a man, and not bow down to their watered down, politically correct agenda’s. In the states, this is a big, big problem, and the priests I see that are pointing out how we should be showing reverence towards the mass, are largely shunned because they don’t quite fit into the social scene, largely dominated by the female parishioners.

Do you think maybe it is time to change parishes? It sounds like their is an imbalance here that is serious. I think you should respectfully talk to your pastor about this.

I’ll be taking a larger roll in mine, for the moment, leading through example and sticking out like a sore thumb, I’ll give our new priest time to take note of the struggle of what’s going on, and give him the benefit of the doubt, I absolutely hope he doesn’t try to fit into the parish, but makes the parish fit into what the tradition mandates. Time will tell, and it looks like I have some work on my hands here, I do fully expect to face a series of conflicts from these gals for they shouldn’t be in charge, that is the Priests job, not theirs.

Listen, the laity have a roll to fulfill in parish life, and that certainly includes women. It sounds like however that your particular parish is unbalanced. There is a great deal of this going on right now.

And its not just a Catholic problem by the way. The protestant denominations are losing men too.

The reason is doctrine. Men have a different spirituality than women. Man lives on doctrine and truth and doesn’t like ambiguity and fluffiness. In as much as the Church has basically been a feel-good happy clappy thing for awhile, and everyone goes to heaven anyway (according to the preaching) they might as well just stay home and watch football.

My advice is to respectfully talk to your pastor about your concerns. If he doesn’t hear you, or admonishes you, move on! Find a more traditional parish. He may need your help to make this parish more welcoming to men. So talk to him.

 

[prodigalson12]

St. Johns leaves their doors open every single day, not a problem there, and they are just up the street.

Don’t care too much for female opinions on this matter, have had enough of them at my local parish, time for us guys to step up to the plate and do so without their “intevention” and control. I lead through example now, will trample the staff underfoot onto their higher up’s if I face too much flak in this process…

 

[Seamus_L]

Can you go to a parish that offers the Latin Mass instead ? That’s always a good start.

 

[PPeterson]

This is a very flippant response to a very serious problem. Speaking as a man, I for one find it insulting.

speaking as a man, i normally prefer the company of other thick skinned men who take (and give) good natured ribbing without getting their feelings hurt. if it was over the line i of course apologize, my judgement is frequently off in this. the reason i was flippant was because i interpreted complaining about your effeminate priest and female choir to be a little less than masculine. i can see how it could be annoying, but it didn’t seem to me like evidence of a crisis of emasculation in the church. Again, if i was over the line I apologize i didn’t really intend to offend you.

 

[cathguy]

speaking as a man, i normally prefer the company of other thick skinned men who take (and give) good natured ribbing without getting their feelings hurt. if it was over the line i of course apologize, my judgement is frequently off in this. the reason i was flippant was because i interpreted complaining about your effeminate priest and female choir to be a little less than masculine. i can see how it could be annoying, but it didn’t seem to me like evidence of a crisis of emasculation in the church. Again, if i was over the line I apologize i didn’t really intend to offend you.

Good natured ribbing is fine, but this is an internet chat room, and there is no way to determine “voice” unless you use emoticons.

How are we going to advocate for traditional Catholicism if we don’t articulate that something is wrong? That makes no sense.

So, its less than masculine to point out that the Church isn’t speaking to men? What, we should just be men and pretend there isn’t a problem?

Doesn’t make much sense to me, as humor or otherwise.

 

[puzzleannie]

I . The bulk of those serving the alter, doing the readings, and helping out, are women as well, and I’m seeing all too often, families attending with the father not even present, obviously letting the wife be the spiritual leader. There doesn’t seem to be any men that even work at the parish, except for one guy that doesn’t seem to have a formal roll there, .

well I hope you enjoy a very large croissant on me.

I am ignoring the rest of your rant, if there is man out there who will do my job for what they pay me I will hand it over with glee.

You answered your own question. Where are the men? the husbands? and fathers? if they have decided to abdicate would you prefer that no one educate the children, no one sing, no one serve the liturgy, no one answer the phones or do the accounting. The Church, like nature, abhors a vaccum, and if no men come forward women will do the dirty work, as usual. Why not instead of fomenting against those who do serve, and I assure you few, if any, of as aspire to be priests, target your spleen against men who fail their Church and fail their families.

 

[mr_bamber]

Its a massive problem, this is the fruit I believe of allowing women on the altar, that is, it has blurred the roles of men and women in the body of Christ. Therefore women feel they are able to take leadership roles in the church and therefore they turn the church into a “touchy feeley” liturgical jambourine, which is seriously off putting to men.

 

[Crystal_H]

St. Johns leaves their doors open every single day, not a problem there, and they are just up the street.

Don’t care too much for female opinions on this matter, have had enough of them at my local parish, time for us guys to step up to the plate and do so without their “intevention” and control. I lead through example now, will trample the staff underfoot onto their higher up’s if I face too much flak in this process…

Dear ProdigalSon12,
It appears you have a problem with women. Our Lord was respectful of the work of the women who served Him…maybe you should too. SHAME ON YOU!
Perhaps our Blessed Mother should not have asked our Lord to “intervene” at the Wedding of Cana?
-C

 

[cathguy]

St. Johns leaves their doors open every single day, not a problem there, and they are just up the street.

Don’t care too much for female opinions on this matter, have had enough of them at my local parish, time for us guys to step up to the plate and do so without their “intevention” and control. I lead through example now, will trample the staff underfoot onto their higher up’s if I face too much flak in this process…

Um… a little balance here.

Female opinions matter. This isn’t a war. I bet there are a lot of women who would love to see more men at Church.

I would not “trample the staff underfoot.” That is extreme. Charity first. If you have legitimate concerns, bring them up with the pastor.

Anger itself won’t get you anywhere.

 

[cathguy]

Dear ProdigalSon12,
It appears you have a problem with women. Our Lord was respectful of the work of the women who served Him…maybe you should too. SHAME ON YOU!
Perhaps our Blessed Mother should not have asked our Lord to “intervene” at the Wedding of Cana?
-C

At first I thought he had legitimate concerns, but I think I agree with you

 

[Yellow_Belle]

a “touchy feeley” liturgical jambourine.

jambourine?

 

[cathguy]

jambourine?

I’ve seen accordian and drum set…

And nothing else…

I am not kidding.

 

[PPeterson]

Good natured ribbing is fine, but this is an internet chat room, and there is no way to determine “voice” unless you use emoticons.

How are we going to advocate for traditional Catholicism if we don’t articulate that something is wrong? That makes no sense.

So, its less than masculine to point out that the Church isn’t speaking to men? What, we should just be men and pretend there isn’t a problem?

Doesn’t make much sense to me, as humor or otherwise.

you’re right. i usually prefer to risk a mild misunderstanding rather than be overly dependent on emoticons, because i feel like emoticons ruin the humor of any statement. it’s like if a comedian were to guffaw at his/her own joke. it just kills it for me. also, people can usually find some way to be offended anyway.
as to the discussion, i think it’s fine for you to be concerned about what you see. my only observation would be that maybe some of the issue is personal preference about your own particular church rather than evidence of a larger “emasculation”? In my experience i don’t find “the church in the states” emasculated by anything that is not better explained by more men’s failure to participate.

 

[Cristiano]

It is not easy to fix the problem with the present generation and that is why we need to be involved with educating the young ones. Maybe I am in a more traditional parish but a lot of men are involved with teaching catechism, being adoration leaders, being EMHCs, being ushers, being members of parish committees, volunteering at altar server retreats. A lot are or were in the military and you can see how the young boys try to imitate them. We also have a lot of new women (mature and young) that are joining because they do not like the fluffy and feel good classes that are taught to the kids. I still think that it is just a generational problem, and the tide is changing.