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Sir_Knight
Guest
baltobetsy & Brendan, are both of you saying that the pastor actually doing the job of a priest is less qualified than people in the pews who are not working in that role?
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Sir_Knight
Guest
We have masses at 7, 8:30, 10 & 11:30. Not to mention 6pm on Saturday. If the masses are spread out any further, it would require dropping one mass because the bishop requires all Sunday masses to begin prior to 12 noon.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Do you know what it sounds like to see people putting down that “the problem is receiving under both species.”. Since when is this a problem. It is a privilege and honor. Good points were brought out, but this one struck an uneasy cord in my gut.
Deacon Ed B
Deacon Ed B
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cfrancis
Guest
It is a privilege and an honor - but not a requirement.
It is a privilege and an honor - but no more so than receiving our Savior in the host alone, right?
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japhy
Guest
That’s not what was said; “The problem is that people seem to think that they need to recieve under both species.”
And that is a fair statement, as if communion under one kind is somehow incomplete. Are the faithful taught concomitance? And why is communion offered under both kinds as if it were standard and often in flagrant violation of the norms surrounding it? It doesn’t seem to me like the Council envisioned the practice at every Mass.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
"He who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood real drink. The man who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him…"Jn 6:54-56
This is why.
Deacon Ed B
This is why.
Deacon Ed B
B
Brendan
Guest
Am I saying that the pastor is probably a less qualified bookkeeper than some in the pews. Darn tootin.
Am I saying that the pastor is probably a less qualified process analyist than some, again Darn Tootin’
In each case, there is a significant chance that there will be someone in the pews that is better at that. CPA’s, there are plenty of manufacturing engineers here in Detroit, and their big speciality is process efficency. Doing a task with the minimum numner of steps, with the minium number of people while still maintaining compliance with industrial regulation and union contract stipulations. That’s pretty much a direct match to liturgical staffing
Are you claiming that seminary training provides superiour bookkeeping training than an CPA? Or greater process effiency training than a process analyst?
If so, let Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit know, the formation program there seem to be lacking in those classes.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
"“The sign of Communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly. This is the usual form of receiving Communion in the Eastern rites.” CCC #1390
This is also why.
Deacon Ed B
This is also why.
Deacon Ed B
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Brendan
Guest
Deacon,
You should have had sufficent Sacramental Theology training to know that the physical response to the accidents of the Eucharist is itself an accidental property.
We drink His Blood and eat His Flesh when we partake of a single species. It cannot be otherwise, because the Blood we recieve in either species is lliving, flowing blood.
How our throats act upon that is just as immaterial as how our eyes act upon it. Our eyes see bread, and our throats feel solid as responses to the accidents.
You know as well as I that the Church cannot dismiss a command of Christ. Yet it once restricted the faithful to a single species. It had the authority to do so because the command to eat and drink is fulfilled in a single species.
J
Jean_Anthony
Guest
This thread has strayed from the OP. Please take any side discussions into new or existing threads. Thank you, all.
B
Brendan
Guest
There is always intiction. Cardinal Arinze noted, in a letter to the US Bishops, that the option is available “always and everywhere”
Intinction offer both species, but can be done by a single minister.
That is what my parish does.
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cfrancis
Guest
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Joannm
Guest
That reminds me of when I was applying to Grad school and had to take the GRE exams and get a certain score on Math. I said why would someone studying theology need a high score in Math and the only answer I could come up with was the example you just gave.
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baltobetsy
Guest
I’m saying that all of us who completed middle school math are equally capable of figuring out the number of ministers needed, but that the priest, by virtue of the authority of his office and the grace of state attached thereto, should make the decision.
Betsy
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Sir_Knight
Guest
Am I saying that the pastor is probably a less qualified bookkeeper than some in the pews. Darn tootin.
Am I saying that the pastor is probably a less qualified process analyist than some, again Darn Tootin’
In each case, there is a significant chance that there will be someone in the pews that is better at that. CPA’s, there are plenty of manufacturing engineers here in Detroit, and their big speciality is process efficency. Doing a task with the minimum numner of steps, with the minium number of people while still maintaining compliance with industrial regulation and union contract stipulations. That’s pretty much a direct match to liturgical staffing
Are you claiming that seminary training provides superiour bookkeeping training than an CPA? Or greater process effiency training than a process analyst?
If so, let Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit know, the formation program there seem to be lacking in those classes.
And I’m saying that somebody who has spent several years formally studying for the priesthood and has actual experience in performing that role, is better qualified to know if his particular circumstances calls for EMHCs than a backseat driver sitting in the pews.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Actually no. As per the Church–EMHC’s are to determine if their services are needed — and decline-- even if they have been appointed to serve. So the determination does **Not **all fall on the priest. If an EMHC can determine if his/her service is not called for—the same can be said for the people sitting in the pews.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
[157.] If there is usually present a sufficient number of sacred ministers for the distribution of Holy Communion, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may not be appointed.** Indeed, in such circumstances, those who may have already been appointed to this ministry should not exercise it. **The practice of those Priests is reprobated who, even though present at the celebration, abstain from distributing Communion and hand this function over to laypersons.[258]
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Sir_Knight
Guest
So, let me get this straight … the Pastor decides that he needs X number of EMHCs for a particular mass and schedules X number of EMHCs for that mass. The EMHCs are to go AGAINST their pastor’s wishes if in THEIR opinion they are not needed?
Shouldn’t the pastor make the final call on this?
Shouldn’t the pastor make the final call on this?
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Sir_Knight
Guest
I guess that we partially agree,
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Walking_Home
Guest
The Mass does not belong to the priest to do as he wishes. He is to offer the Mass as the Church intends—and the Church intends that EMHC’s decline if their services are not needed.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
And who is more qualified to decide if they are needed or not needed – the priest who has more experience and sees the bigger picture or the EMHCs who have less experience and may not be aware of all factors?
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