"Emorgent": Can a Mormon Be an Emergent Christian?

[dianaiad]

Ergun Caner was a president of apologetics at Liberty University who claimed to have been raised by Muslim radicals to perform a suicide bombing. One of his claims was he grew up in a Turkish madrassa. It later turned out he had a Turkish dad and Swedish mom, moved to Ohio when he was four, grew up in America with no real religion, and pretty much lived the life of your average American teen. When all the realities of his lifestory came out he was removed from his president’s position and now he’s just a professor there.

Interesting.

I still don’t see the connection, but it’s interesting, nonetheless!!! (grin)

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Interesting.

I still don’t see the connection, but it’s interesting, nonetheless!!! (grin)

gestures with his hands You mentioned a madrassah, so I made a crack regarding Ergun Caner who claimed to have been trained in a madrassah.

 

[lax16]

…and would you care to tell me how any religious school (absent, perhaps, a Madrassah school in Palestine or somewhere…) is anything BUT voluntary?

Do you see big black helicopters hovering around Baptist homes, training automatic weapons on people, forcing plastic restraints on them and frog-marching them to Sunday School?

How about them Mormons, now…do you see the Bishop sending wake up squads around the ward with whips in their hands, forcing teenagers to go to Seminary classes?

In other words, are you flippin’ SERIOUS?

Are you saying that a student can skip seminary class when he wants to?
No - they come and get him if they can find him.
It is also very handy that all public middle and high schools in Utah have a seminary building right next to the schools.
Diana - it is not voluntary for these kids to miss seminary. It is part of their scheduled school day!
You’re right, no guns, just a school administration making sure they don’t miss class.

 

[dianaiad]

gestures with his hands You mentioned a madrassah, so I made a crack regarding Ergun Caner who claimed to have been trained in a madrassah.

Just call this a joke that flew whoooshing RIGGGGHT over my head, and shrug. uch:

 

[dianaiad]

Are you saying that a student can skip seminary class when he wants to?
No - they come and get him if they can find him.

Who’s ‘they?’ ARe you envisioning some seminary police standing out in the hallways with billy clubs or something?

I remember occasionally sleeping in and missing seminary, once upon a while back—and the only thing I got for it was having to walk two miles to school because I missed the bus.

It is also very handy that all public middle and high schools in Utah have a seminary building right next to the schools.

Yes, they do. And schools in Utah have one ‘release period’ a day, during which the students can attend seminary…or a different religious school (and they DO have those) or an extra elective. A whole bunch of kids choose the elective. I think you are getting a little wierd on me with this one, lax, really. Everybody else has to attend seminary outside school hours, like before or after school.

Personally, taking a religious class at five AM didn’t appeal to me that much, but I managed…though I also bowed out of it for my senior year. I went to college instead.

Diana - it is not voluntary for these kids to miss seminary. It is part of their scheduled school day!

Only if they choose it. Quite a few don’t.

You’re right, no guns, just a school administration making sure they don’t miss class.

Sorry, but the school administration has nothing at all to do with who goes to seminary. The only authority they have is over the students who choose not to go.

 

[Javl]

You’ve heard him say that you know more about Mormonism than he does on the radio?

Stop twisting my words. You know better than that !

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

…and would you care to tell me how any religious school (absent, perhaps, a Madrassah school in Palestine or somewhere…) is anything BUT voluntary?

Do you see big black helicopters hovering around Baptist homes, training automatic weapons on people, forcing plastic restraints on them and frog-marching them to Sunday School?

How about them Mormons, now…do you see the Bishop sending wake up squads around the ward with whips in their hands, forcing teenagers to go to Seminary classes?

In other words, are you flippin’ SERIOUS?

Diana, now you’re getting ridiculous. You know exactly what I mean. I am NOT refering to Mormonism, or do I detect guilt?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[dianaiad]

Stop twisting my words. You know better than that !

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Javi, I was simply reading your post. Remember, I’m an English teacher. I love you and all that, but that post was very sloppy, and that’s exactly what you wrote!

If that’s not what you meant to say, what IS It that you heard differently on the radio?

 

[lax16]

Who’s ‘they?’ ARe you envisioning some seminary police standing out in the hallways with billy clubs or something?

**No, not seminary police. Like I said, any kid who misses a class, any class, will be tracked down by administration. Including seminary class. **

I remember occasionally sleeping in and missing seminary, once upon a while back—and the only thing I got for it was having to walk two miles to school because I missed the bus.

For those of us who are/were public school employees in Utah, we are aware that kids cannot skip seminary. It is part of the school day and is treated like any other class.

Yes, they do. And schools in Utah have one ‘release period’ a day, during which the students can attend seminary…or a different religious school (and they DO have those) or an extra elective. A whole bunch of kids choose the elective. I think you are getting a little wierd on me with this one, lax, really. Everybody else has to attend seminary outside school hours, like before or after school.

**No I am not weird at all. I am pointing out that if a kid chooses seminary (or is strongly encouraged by parents to do so) it is part of the school day and therefore cannot be missed. Most of the families who want their children to receive religious instruction during the day send them to private/religious schools of their denomination. (There has been an attempt by our parish to offer “seminary” to public school kids but there was not enough interest. Very few Catholic kids at our parish attend public school). **

Personally, taking a religious class at five AM didn’t appeal to me that much, but I managed…though I also bowed out of it for my senior year. I went to college instead.

Well lucky for the kids that I know - it does not start that early (although piano lessons do!)

Only if they choose it. Quite a few don’t.

**I’m curious - if a teen does not take seminary because he *doesn’t want ***to (not because all seminary classes are full at his/her school) does that affect their temple recommend or their ability to serve a mission?

Sorry, but the school administration has nothing at all to do with who goes to seminary. The only authority they have is over the students who choose not to go.

**I never said that the school administration *makes a student register *for seminary class, however, no student is permitted to skip a class without the administration getting involved. **

 

[dianaiad]

Diana, now you’re getting ridiculous. You know exactly what I mean. I am NOT refering to Mormonism, or do I detect guilt?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

No, you wrote Protestantism. That is quite true…which is why I referred to the Baptists.

Lighten up, my friend. I’m simply calling you on the polemics. Nobody in the USA, with the exception of a few mind-control groups who are pulling this sort of stuff illegally, can make attendance at any religious instruction INVOLUNTARY. By claiming that it is, you leave nothing at the top for truly forced attendance to such things.

It’s a bit like the UN calling SB 1070 an egregious violation of civil rights. By doing that, it leaves nothing under which to classify things like, oh, stoning women to death. It is this logic under which I am calling you on: claiming that any religious instruction by Protestants (or us, for that matter) as being involuntary. Religious instruction for Protestants and Mormons is about as involuntary as catechism class is for Catholics, it seems to me…something one SHOULD do, but not something that anybody is going to hold a gun to your head over.

 

[dianaiad]

I’m curious - if a teen does not take seminary because he doesn’t want to (not because all seminary classes are full at his/her school) does that affect their temple recommend or their ability to serve a mission? ,snip.

No. Kids who actually attend seminary are more likely to want to go on a mission, though.

**I never said that the school administration *makes a student register ***for seminary class, however, no student is permitted to skip a class without the administration getting involved.

They are responsible for the whereabouts of the kids while they are under their care, yes…but as far as I’m aware, nobody is going to be suspended from school if they ditch seminary (but stay on the approved grounds). At least, my son wasn’t. He got into trouble with ME, but not with the school.

(edited addendum…) Oh, and if the kid can choose not to register, then attendance is voluntary by definition, isn’t it?

 

[Javl]

Javi, I was simply reading your post. Remember, I’m an English teacher. I love you and all that, but that post was very sloppy, and that’s exactly what you wrote!

If that’s not what you meant to say, what IS It that you heard differently on the radio?

Yes, and I minored in English in college. I do know how to use the language. Thank you.

When Beck first married he had said that he married a Mormon and that he knew nothing about it, since he was basically Catholic. He then went on about having to go through the trouble and problems in learning Mormanism.

I presume that today he does know the basics as much as I do.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

No, you wrote Protestantism. That is quite true…which is why I referred to the Baptists.

Lighten up, my friend. I’m simply calling you on the polemics. Nobody in the USA, with the exception of a few mind-control groups who are pulling this sort of stuff illegally, can make attendance at any religious instruction INVOLUNTARY. By claiming that it is, you leave nothing at the top for truly forced attendance to such things.

Yes, I mentioned Protestantism since there still are denominations that do demand total adherance and attendance, for whatever reason.

It’s a bit like the UN calling SB 1070 an egregious violation of civil rights. By doing that, it leaves nothing under which to classify things like, oh, stoning women to death. It is this logic under which I am calling you on: claiming that any religious instruction by Protestants (or us, for that matter) as being involuntary. Religious instruction for Protestants and Mormons is about as involuntary as catechism class is for Catholics, it seems to me…something one SHOULD do, but not something that anybody is going to hold a gun to your head over.

I agree with you, but there are still many out there who hold to the belief that the Catholic Church forces parents to enroll their children in parochial school while they must attend religious classes. Also that Nuns are held captive, along with priests, in their religious communities. Too many people listen to and believe Jack Chick. I do/did not know what your knowledge about this is/was, therefore the comment.

What we should do is have a private discussion to inform each other of our knowledge of the other’s religion and dispell the lies, myths, misconceptions, etc. so that neither of us gets off on the wrong foot.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[dianaiad]

Yes, and I minored in English in college. I do know how to use the language. Thank you.

Javi, I deeply apologize for offending you. Didn’t mean to…but honey, you would have flunked that one. (and “honey” is not meant in a derisive sense AT all! I’m feeling…grandmotherly and teacherly. )

When Beck first married he had said that he married a Mormon and that he knew nothing about it, since he was basically Catholic. He then went on about having to go through the trouble and problems in learning Mormanism.

I presume that today he does know the basics as much as I do.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I rather think he knows more about Mormonism than you do. At least, he certainly knows what HIS beliefs are better than you do. Thats a given for anybody, no matter what his or her beliefs are.

 

[dianaiad]

Yes, I mentioned Protestantism since there still are denominations that do demand total adherance and attendance, for whatever reason.

I agree with you, but there are still many out there who hold to the belief that the Catholic Church forces parents to enroll their children in parochial school while they must attend religious classes. Also that Nuns are held captive, along with priests, in their religious communities. Too many people listen to and believe Jack Chick. I do/did not know what your knowledge about this is/was, therefore the comment.

What we should do is have a private discussion to inform each other of our knowledge of the other’s religion and dispell the lies, myths, misconceptions, etc. so that neither of us gets off on the wrong foot.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Trust me, I don’t believe that Catholics are forced to do anything they don’t want to do, nuns are nuns because they want to be (and so are priests) and parochial school is too darned EXPENSIVE to be mandatory! Frankly, when my kids were in high school, if I’d had the money, I would have sent them to Paraclete High School…but shoot, my tuition for my MA is cheaper than sending my kids to a Catholic high school would have been!

As for Jack Chick…wait around awhile. I am no fan of his. In fact, I have this rule: I do not accept, as a primary source, information about ANY belief system that doesn’t come from a True Believer of that belief. If I want to know what Catholics believe, I go to Catholics, or the catechism, or very official Catholic publications. Jack Chick is, in my view, in the same category as Ed Decker and the authors of “Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” I use him as an example of what not to do.

If you want to engage in private discussions, feel free to PM me! I don’t bite.

Well, not often.

 

[notself]

This may be off topic but I don’t think my question is general enough to start a new thread.
Many of my friends who are devout Catholics attended Glenn Beck’s rally in Washington DC. I was surprised to see Reverend Hagee given a prominent place on the platform. Hagee is a virulent anti-Catholic and Beck has made several statement which can be seen as anti-Catholic.

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/02/john-hagee-is-anti-catholic.html
ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=855&Itemid=125

Is this “Great Awakening” (a Mormon term) a hidden agenda against Catholicism or am I being paranoid?

 

[dianaiad]

This may be off topic but I don’t think my question is general enough to start a new thread.
Many of my friends who are devout Catholics attended Glenn Beck’s rally in Washington DC. I was surprised to see Reverend Hagee given a prominent place on the platform. Hagee is a virulent anti-Catholic and Beck has made several statement which can be seen as anti-Catholic.

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/02/john-hagee-is-anti-catholic.html
ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=855&Itemid=125

Is this “Great Awakening” (a Mormon term) a hidden agenda against Catholicism or am I being paranoid?

“The Great Awakening” is a MORMON term?

News to me. I know it as an historical term…as in several periods of religious revivalism, Mormonism showing up in the second one. The only other area in which I have seen it used has been in terms of evangelical Christian thought, specifically Baptist thought.

By the way, Bro. Beck had many representatives from many different religions up there with him, including Catholics. Almost all of them refuse to recognize Mormonism as Christian, and every single one of them represent groups that publish anti-Mormon publications.

Given that, I don’t think you should worry much that one of them is also anti-Catholic. In fact, the only man up there who isn’t anti-SOMETHING would have been Glenn Beck.

 

[Javl]

Trust me, I don’t believe that Catholics are forced to do anything they don’t want to do, nuns are nuns because they want to be (and so are priests) and parochial school is too darned EXPENSIVE to be mandatory! Frankly, when my kids were in high school, if I’d had the money, I would have sent them to Paraclete High School…but shoot, my tuition for my MA is cheaper than sending my kids to a Catholic high school would have been!

As for Jack Chick…wait around awhile. I am no fan of his. In fact, I have this rule: I do not accept, as a primary source, information about ANY belief system that doesn’t come from a True Believer of that belief. If I want to know what Catholics believe, I go to Catholics, or the catechism, or very official Catholic publications. Jack Chick is, in my view, in the same category as Ed Decker and the authors of “Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” I use him as an example of what not to do.

If you want to engage in private discussions, feel free to PM me! I don’t bite.

Well, not often.

OK, fine. We’re of about the same accord. Also, I don’t bite either. In fact, I can’t. I have no teeth…Shalom.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

Javi, I deeply apologize for offending you. Didn’t mean to…but honey, you would have flunked that one. (and “honey” is not meant in a derisive sense AT all! I’m feeling…grandmotherly and teacherly. )

No apology necessary, thanks anyway ( “gran’ma” ). I’m a bit older’n you. FYI: Adam and Eve were my kids and Methusula learned everything he knew from me!

I rather think he knows more about Mormonism than you do. At least, he certainly knows what HIS beliefs are better than you do. Thats a given for anybody, no matter what his or her beliefs are.

Of course he would now. But back then he didn’t know what Catholicism was about. And that’s a shame about many so called “Catholics”.

 

[dianaiad]

No apology necessary, thanks anyway ( “gran’ma” ). I’m a bit older’n you. FYI: Adam and Eve were my kids and Methusula learned everything he knew from me!

Wanna bet and trade birthdates? I just had a b-day last week, amof…so I’m definitely feelin’ the years.

Of course he would now.

Well, we were both dealing in present tense, so…

But back then he didn’t know what Catholicism was about.

Perhaps not. Considering his lifestyle, almost certainly not! Still, I’m glad he’s LDS. Takes the bad taste of Harry Ried out of my mouth, y’know?

And that’s a shame about many so called “Catholics”.

Oh, they are still Catholics, even if they aren’t properly catechized. At least, that’s what everybody tells me!! In fact, at least one person (thinking…make that three or four, actually) has told me that Glenn Beck is still a Catholic, whether he likes it or not.