End of Altar Girls?

[Franciscum]

katherine2:

Please come to my parish. Please come to our Catholic Mothers Club. Please tell these ladies that the wonderful, beautiful young man we have as an altar server and who has a mental disability that would make him ineligable as a priestly candidate should step aside for a boy who might be considered or considering the priesthood. I would encourage YOU to then step aside – and cover up that part of your body you need for the priesthood.

I must admit, the devil would tempt me to take amusement in this little interaction.

As I said in my opening post, people will proffer excuses. However I personally think fostering priestly vocations is more important that maintaining local “traditions.”

Supporting vocations is serious stuff and we are seeing just a bit of why the are in such a sad state today right here on this forum.

 

[Franciscum]

Catholic2003:

But where will the future **misogynistic priests **come from if we don’t coddle the misogynistic tendencies of young boys who refuse to serve alongside altar girls?

BTW, female altar servers were allowed by the 1983 Code of Canon Law (canon 230 §2), which came into force November 27, 1983.

Spoken like a true misandrist…

 

[kage_ar]

Annunciata:

We have a father and son who serve together in my parish…I think you are correct!

This is the tradition at our Parish on Father’s Day - the dad’s serve along with the servers - my husband has been asked to serve as a “last minute” fill in when someone does not show up…

 

[kage_ar]

DaveBj:

I will be coming into the Church this Easter at the age of 58, and I wish I could be an altar boy :crying:

DaveBj

Our neighboring parhish has an Altar Server who is older than you, I believe he is around 70 (our server coordinator likes to say that she recruits servers from age 7 to 70).

My son is one of the older boys (age 14) who helps guide the younger ones. A bit of mom’ bragging here, our son was one of the youngest to be promoted to Grand Master Knight a couple of years ago

 

[Franciscum]

fix:

So young boys are genetically misogynistic? Interesting opinions you hold.

When did female altar servers start and who gave them permission prior to the Vatican allowing them? Each priest still has the yes or no over use of female servers.

Quite true.

 

[Franciscum]

fix:

So young boys are genetically misogynistic? Interesting opinions you hold.

When did female altar servers start and who gave them permission prior to the Vatican allowing them? Each priest still has the yes or no over use of female servers.

Quite true.

 

[fix]

I still struggle when I see young girls on the altar, dressed in their albs. I realize that we supposedly have permission to allow female altar servers, but the sight always causes me a sort of mental twinge, much like the one felt when a musician hits a bad note.

           A GRIM PICTURE

           I can’t help but picture the Vestal Virgins in the              ancient Roman temple. It just doesn’t seem right to have little              girls on the altar. As they stand up there with their high heeled              shoes poking out from under their albs, and maybe a hint of make-up              on their cheeks I sometimes pity them. They have been pushed out on              the wrong side of the nest, like baby birds whose first flight ends              with them sprawled on the pavement below. Why such a grim picture? I              fear these young products of a society, and Church, overrun by a              feminist agenda, are missing out on the sublime beauty of their own              unique calling. 

          The sanctuary isn’t the only place where our little              girls are being misled about femininity and womanhood. Just watch TV              and you will see the message everywhere that the real accomplishment              for a girl is to be just like a boy, only better....

Our girls are not realizing their own feminine dignity, rather they are led to believe that dignity can only come from filling typically male roles. They are led to believe, by commercials and self-help shows, that girls must be accomplished in sports in order to like themselves. And if they are accomplished in sports, they will have great careers, and then like themselves even more. Certainly women have been oppressed and discriminated against in many cultures and at many times. But the answer to the oppression of women is NOT to make them men. That would be an admission that men are better than women. This is the message that our young girls are getting from movies and TV…

So what do girls really want? Do they want to have fun? Do they want to be men? Do they want to be priests, football players, and soldiers? Maybe, just maybe, girls want to be allowed to be truly feminine and not forced into some asexual or mostly masculine stereotype. Maybe, just maybe, girls really want to be affirmed in their dignity as women, made in the image and likeness of God, whose bodies were created to be the sacred chambers in which God creates the next generation. Maybe, just maybe, girls really want to be told that they have the power within them as mothers to change the world.

carolscomments.com/WhatGirlsWant.html

please read the full essay. I think she gets it right.

 

[Franciscum]

take away the female altar servers, and you eliminate the best servers we have… i am the one responsible for training the altar servers in our parish… they are an integral part of our parish… my experience is they do (on average) a much better, more devout, service for the church then the male servers of the same age… who knows, they may become nuns one day…

i see no positive push for the church to eliminate girls from serving at mass…

John Paul II ok’s it,… good enough for me

As I said in my opening posts, many will offer excuses, although they wone’t be valid excuses. You certainly have not shown why female altar servers should be employed. But you have shown some anxiety here as the person in charge of servers at your parish.

The “positive push” is fostering priestly vocations, which is extremely important. JPII made other comments about altar servers that you should take the time to read…

 

[Franciscum]

kage_ar:

Our neighboring parhish has an Altar Server who is older than you, I believe he is around 70 (our server coordinator likes to say that she recruits servers from age 7 to 70).

My son is one of the older boys (age 14) who helps guide the younger ones. A bit of mom’ bragging here, our son was one of the youngest to be promoted to Grand Master Knight a couple of years ago

You have a “Knights of the Altar” program at your parish? Amazing – in a most positive way. I can almost hear the moans from the fem-sexist cadre…

(The moniker sounds like your son is a KKK leader though or Carl Anderson of the KofC.)

 

[kage_ar]

Franciscum:

(The moniker sounds like your son is a KKK leader though or Carl Anderson of the KofC.)

That is why we don’t use the title around those who would NOT understand - at our parish, they begin as pages, then move up through the “ranks”.

Our family was blessed so much when our son served Easter Vigil when his dad finally joined in full communion! The pictures from that Easter vigil are beautiful.

 

[Franciscum]

fix:

I still struggle when I see young girls on the altar, dressed in their albs. I realize that we supposedly have permission to allow female altar servers, but the sight always causes me a sort of mental twinge, much like the one felt when a musician hits a bad note.

A GRIM PICTURE

I can’t help but picture the Vestal Virgins in the ancient Roman temple. It just doesn’t seem right to have little girls on the altar. As they stand up there with their high heeled shoes poking out from under their albs, and maybe a hint of make-up on their cheeks I sometimes pity them. They have been pushed out on the wrong side of the nest, like baby birds whose first flight ends with them sprawled on the pavement below. Why such a grim picture? I fear these young products of a society, and Church, overrun by a feminist agenda, are missing out on the sublime beauty of their own unique calling.

The sanctuary isn’t the only place where our little girls are being misled about femininity and womanhood. Just watch TV and you will see the message everywhere that the real accomplishment for a girl is to be just like a boy, only better…

Our girls are not realizing their own feminine dignity, rather they are led to believe that dignity can only come from filling typically male roles. They are led to believe, by commercials and self-help shows, that girls must be accomplished in sports in order to like themselves. And if they are accomplished in sports, they will have great careers, and then like themselves even more. Certainly women have been oppressed and discriminated against in many cultures and at many times. But the answer to the oppression of women is NOT to make them men. That would be an admission that men are better than women. This is the message that our young girls are getting from movies and TV…

So what do girls really want? Do they want to have fun? Do they want to be men? Do they want to be priests, football players, and soldiers? Maybe, just maybe, girls want to be allowed to be truly feminine and not forced into some asexual or mostly masculine stereotype. Maybe, just maybe, girls really want to be affirmed in their dignity as women, made in the image and likeness of God, whose bodies were created to be the sacred chambers in which God creates the next generation. Maybe, just maybe, girls really want to be told that they have the power within them as mothers to change the world.

carolscomments.com/WhatGirlsWant.html

please read the full essay. I think she gets it right.

What an awesome posting, thank you.

I remember accidently walking into a room at my parish were altar server orientation was taking place. There were about 5 boys, and maybe 15 girls.

Without exception it seemed that every girl was flanked by their mothers who certainly followed the visual stereotype of a wanna-be-priestess in how they acted and how they dressed. It was rather apalling. It reminded me a great deal of the sterotype of moms who drag their daughters to beauty paegents or commerical auditions.

It wasn’t for the daughters, but for the moms. Thankfully this was around 1990. I don’t think this is the norm around here anymore.

 

[Franciscum]

kage_ar:

That is why we don’t use the title around those who would NOT understand - at our parish, they begin as pages, then move up through the “ranks”.

Our family was blessed so much when our son served Easter Vigil when his dad finally joined in full communion! The pictures from that Easter vigil are beautiful.

Pages of the Altar and Knights of the Altar? That is awesome. I bet it takes some work and dedication to.

I wish JPII would release an encyclical on the benefits of creating such groups in every Catholic parish.

Do you know if the Church ever offered any guidelines for pages and knights?

Again, well done.

 

[fix]

Franciscum:

What an awesome posting, thank you.

I remember accidently walking into a room at my parish were altar server orientation was taking place. There were about 5 boys, and maybe 15 girls.

Without exception it seemed that every girl was flanked by their mothers who certainly followed the visual stereotype of a wanna-be-priestess in how they acted and how they dressed. It was rather apalling. It reminded me a great deal of the sterotype of moms who drag their daughters to beauty paegents or commerical auditions.

It wasn’t for the daughters, but for the moms. Thankfully this was around 1990. I don’t think this is the norm around here anymore.

I tried to make your same point a while back. It is often the mothers who push the female altar servers. Not in every case, sometimes it is just mothers who think it is a good thing to pursue. My intention is to get some to think about it more deeply and in a different light, rather than accept every novelty that comes along as an authentic good. That is why I keep asking who started the practice? It was not Rome.

 

[katherine2]

fix:

I guess that would depend on how one is defining pastoral action? If that means illicit practices or a loophole mentality in following directives from Rome, then yes some would be against such actions.

You were the one that suggested any reference suggested abuse.

So you embrace “anti Christian” practices, like separating the sexes, for some things?

If you think boys and girls are engaging in immodesty by serving at Mass together, you have a sick mind.

Uhm, let’s let boys and girls develop normally and go through proper stages of maturing. All the while teaching the faith. Just because one is not fully mature does not mean they can’t have a calling to the priesthood.

Oh come on. Somehow they need to be seperated for an hour at Mass but can be decent to each other at a host of other activities. Get real.

 

[Franciscum]

fix:

I tried to make your same point a while back. It is often the mothers who push the female altar servers. Not in every case, sometimes it is just mothers who think it is a good thing to pursue. My intention is to get some to think about it more deeply and in a different light, rather than accept every novelty that comes along as an authentic good. That is why I keep asking who started the practice? It was not Rome.

This is a fascinating subject. One of the few areas where otherwise orthodox Catholics will place the demands/desires of secular culture over the good of the Church.

It’s clear that JPII is turning the ship (ever so slowly) on the matter of allowing females to serve at the altar. I don’t believe they will be allowed in 10-20 years. Time will tell.

They’ll no doubt be a great deal of whining from the minority, but only because people do not ponder (and pray on) the hugely positive impact of having all male altar servers on priestly and diaconate vocations.

 

[fix]

If you think boys and girls are engaging in immodesty by serving at Mass together, you have a sick mind.

That is not the point and you know it.

Oh come on. Somehow they need to be seperated for an hour at Mass but can be decent to each other at a host of other activities. Get real.

I say get real to you. I have posted plenty of reasoned opinions from me and others about restricting the servers to all male. It just does not fit your agenda.

 

[katherine2]

You sure don’t know MY boys!! All 3 of my BOYS have always had GIRLS among their best friends (started early, and is still true - oldest 13, youngest 9). When offered a group situation at school for projects, etc, all 3 will choose GIRLS to work with over BOYS. (Girls work harder, are more focused, are nicer, maybe??). Sure, they have guy friends, too, but none like their girl friends!

fix:

My experience with boys and girls is vastly different. Boys do tend to socialize with boys and girls with girls depending on the age and situation. Are there exceptions, sure. Is that the norm, no.

Well, fix, why don’t you accept the fact that your experience and the experience some Catholic mothers have and the experience of various parish priests might be different.

The issue is your call to tie the hands of every priest regardless of the experience in his parish. The law allows the priest to select who he will. Why impose YOUR will on everyone?

 

[fix]

Franciscum:

This is a fascinating subject. One of the few areas where otherwise orthodox Catholics will place the demands/desires of secular culture over the good of the Church.

It’s clear that JPII is turning the ship (ever so slowly) on the matter of allowing females to serve at the altar. I don’t believe they will be allowed in 10-20 years. Time will tell.

They’ll no doubt be a great deal of whining from the minority, but only because people do not ponder (and pray on) the hugely positive impact of having all male altar servers on priestly and diaconate vocations.

I agree that many times we take our cues from the culture , rather than think with the mind of the Church. From these posts we can see that clearly.

 

[katherine2]

Franciscum:

As I said in my opening post, people will proffer excuses. However I personally think fostering priestly vocations is more important that maintaining local “traditions.”

Supporting vocations is serious stuff and we are seeing just a bit of why the are in such a sad state today right here on this forum.

Yet you haven’t offered an iota of evidence about how serving alongside the mentally or phyiscally handicapped discourages priestly vocations.

 

[fix]

katherine2:

Well, fix, why don’t you accept the fact that your experience and the experience some Catholic mothers have and the experience of various parish priests might be different.

The issue is your call to tie the hands of every priest regardless of the experience in his parish. The law allows the priest to select who he will. Why impose YOUR will on everyone?

I say the same to you libs. Why foist your myopic, secular agenda on the faithful? I ask again, who started females servers? Did they have permission or did they just start it in disobedience and then Rome gave in?

BTW, it is the libs who just disobey and change practices by their own authority. The orthodox comply, obey just commmands, and let those in authority know when they are abuses. That does not mean the abuses are corrected, either.