End of Christianity in the Netherlands. An article on the collapse of Christianity in a European country

[Annie]

It seems like God is balanced against the world.

When the world looks bad, God looks good and people flock to him.

When the world looks good, people stray.

The 1960s brought about the option of child-free sex and lots of it with the sexual revolution, and an abandoning of God.

The 1960s also brought about an idea that one could be “virtuous” without being religious and that in fact the religious people were restraining “virtue” by their reluctance to rapid change.

(I put virtue in quotation marks because altho there is some overlap between the two, the ideas of virtue and the expressions of virtue held by each side differ.)

 

[Vico]

Hopefully it recovers. Sure looks a lot better than Poland at the moment, though.

Pew Research states that for Poland the survey reports 40% who say they attend worship services at least monthly.

How do European countries differ in religious commitment? | Pew Research Center

 

[commenter]

The totals are somewhat blurred by immigration and different perceptions of what it means to be very religious, especially comparing Muslims and Christians.

 

[Vico]

• I wonder why I and likely many others are drawn to these “End of Christianity” surveys and articles, probably the same reason we watch disaster movies.
• Cross-cultural comparisons are likely misleading, because surveys can’t adequately take into account diffences in how people self define as “Christians”. But regardless it’s obvious there is a massive decline in actual practice and belief.
• I don’t know about Europe, but based on my experience in the US I suspect it has a lot to do with doctrinal confusion, and a lack of Evangelism. My diocese is declining rapidly. They had a new Evangelism program every few years, but all about hospitality, nothing about spreading the Catholic Faith.

USCCB

What is the New Evangelization?
The New Evangelization calls each of us to deepen our faith, believe in the Gospel message and go forth to proclaim the Gospel. The focus of the New Evangelization calls all Catholics to be evangelized and then go forth to evangelize. In a special way, the New Evangelization is focused on ‘re-proposing’ the Gospel to those who have experienced a crisis of faith. Pope Benedict XVI called for the re-proposing of the Gospel "to those regions awaiting the first evangelization and to those regions where the roots of Christianity are deep but who have experienced a serious crisis of faith due to secularization."1 The New Evangelization invites each Catholic to renew their relationship with Jesus Christ and his Church.

https://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/how-we-teach/new-evangelization

 

[Daisy]

I think it’s a natural Christian tendency to want to solve why brethren have left the faith.

It’s interesting to note that the majority of the countries most lacking in faith listed in your pew article were large beneficiaries of The Marshall Plan in the 1940’s and 50’s. Western Europe has largely turned to a welfare state mentality beginning mid-century with the overwhelming US aid from this Marshall Plan.

In comment to this observation, I want to quote from this article here:
The welfare state is built on these premises:
“…the goal of human life is not to be good, but to be happy — to be comfortable and prosperous, enjoying a constant sense of well-being. The second is that it is government’s responsibility to ensure that people are happy — to make adversity of every kind a distant and unpleasant memory.”

As noted above, the seeds of Christianity do not sprout from white bread and well-being.

I also want to point out that the OP article discusses that problems of falling away originated in the mid-1940’s. Not the 1960’s. Can’t ignore Nazi’s murderous role in the elimination of the faithful.

 

[Vico]

I think it’s a natural Christian tendency to want to solve why brethren have left the faith.

It’s interesting to note that the majority of the countries most lacking in faith listed in your pew article were large beneficiaries of The Marshall Plan in the 1940’s and 50’s. Western Europe has largely turned to a welfare state mentality beginning mid-century with the overwhelming US aid from this Marshall Plan.

In comment to this observation, I want to quote from this article here:
The welfare state is built on these premises:
“…the goal of human life is not to be good, but to be happy — to be comfortable and prosperous, enjoying a constant sense of well-being. The second is that it is government’s responsibility to ensure that people are happy — to make adversity of every kind a distant and unpleasant memory.”

As noted above, the seeds of Christianity do not sprout from white bread and well-being.

I also want to point out that the OP article discusses that problems of falling away originated in the mid-1940’s. Not the 1960’s. Can’t ignore Nazi’s murderous role in the elimination of the faithful.

Happy, adj, feeling or showing pleasure or contentment. (Oxford)

Of course the plan excluded Spain, and in addition there was, outside the plan, aid given to Yugoslavia (now Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Slovenia).

Yeah, there was a tremendous loss of life in Europe in the 20th century.

Generalplan Ost (13,700,000) 1941-1945 Europe
Holodomor - Ukrainian Genocide by starvation (7,500,000) 1932-1933 Ukrainian SSR
The Holocaust (6,000,000) 1941-1945 Europe
Nazi Polish Genocide (3,000,000) 1939-1945 Europe

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I think it’s a natural Christian tendency to want to solve why brethren have left the faith.

I think the article highlighted one of the bigger issues that is typically missed or minimized during these discussions. What is in it for the individual that outweighs ceding part of their individuality?

In the past (and some places today) attendance or at least appearance of faith was required to effectively be part of society. But with that pressure lessened and the ability to find happiness and contentment elsewhere, what’s left? No offense, but it seems like the other benefits require one to already believe in order to feel a need to pursue such faith.

 

[ATraveller]

It’s the case for the Netherlands as a whole.
But there are still villages where laws force shops to close on Sundays, people go to churches twice on Sunday, and swearing can get you a fine.
And explicitly Christian political parties win seats in their Parliament.

Party	Votes	%Vote	Vote Change	Seats Won	Seat Change
People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy	2,238,351	21.3	−5.3	33	−8
Party for Freedom	1,372,941	13.1	+3.0	20	+5
Christian Democratic Appeal	1,301,796	12.4	+3.9	19	+6
Democrats 66	1,285,819	12.2	+4.2	19	+7
GroenLinks	959,600	9.1	+6.8	14	+10
Socialist Party	955,633	9.1	−0.6	14	−1
Labour Party	599,699	5.7	−19.1	9	−29
Christian Union	356,271	3.4	+0.3	5	+0
Party for the Animals	335,214	3.2	+1.3	5	+3
50PLUS	327,131	3.1	+1.2	4	+2
Reformed Political Party	218,950	2.1	+0.0	3	+0
Denk	216,147	2.1	New	3	+3
Forum for Democracy	187,162	1.8	New	2	+2

(2017 Dutch general election - Wikipedia)
If you add the three bolded Christian parties, that’s 17.9% of total votes. Compare with % of population that is self-IDed Christians over 18 who attend church at least once a month:

% Church Attending Christians, 2017 (Pew Research):
15 Netherlands

They’re very similar. Of course, not all self-IDed Christians will vote for the Christian parties but you have to be amazed how close the two figures are.

 

[ATraveller]

Not weekly but a least once a month as Vico showed. But a lot of the weekly attenders are being pulled into the Evangelical ones. Especially the Charismatic/Pentecostal ones.

Surveys suffer from lying.

They can but it’s not enough to distort the results.

 

[BornInMarch]

Until the beginning of the 1960s, Holland stood out as one of the most Christian nations, in terms of the number of observant faithful and for its expansive drive. 12 percent of Catholic missionaries in the world were Dutch.

I find this information unexpected. From what I learned about history the Dutch were actually the least interested in missionary work during the age of exploration - that’s why they were allowed to keep trading with Japan during its Sakoku period while the more religiously-minded Portuguese were expelled.

 

[Dan_Defender]

From what I learned about history the Dutch were actually the least interested in missionary work during the age of exploration - that’s why they were allowed to keep trading with Japan during its Sakoku period while the more religiously-minded Portuguese were expelled.

I agree. The Dutch also had Indonesia under their power but did not evangelize it.

 

[Buks]

No offense, but it seems like the other benefits require one to already believe in order to feel a need to pursue such faith.

Good point, IMO. I guess we must be charitable, and hope that good works make our faith attractive. As was the case through the centuries.

 

[Athanasiy]

This is interesting info-
“12 percent of Catholic missionaries in the world were Dutch”
Is there any specific literature on the activities of these missions in foreign countries?
Surely this is not mostly Suriname and Curaçao, right?
Are there most missionaries in Africa or Latin America?
Indonesia seems to be a Muslim state though.
Are there many Dutch missionaries abroad in modern times?

 

[Athanasiy]

I remember last year, at sports competitions I talked with representatives of South Africa.
It looks like they are talking in Old Dutch, the Africans.
I wonder if the Christianity, and by the way wealth and prosperity of South African Republic its more due to British or Dutch presence?
Of course, not everything is smooth in this country, there was a dark history of apartheid, but its definitely a Christian (not sure if Catholic) country.
Also, the white population has created a fairly rich and prosperous world.
Probably the lack of levers of common understanding failed to create a successful organization of life of the black population, but the religion there is Christian.
(Almoust 80% Christians, less than 2% Muslims. Wiki… )

 

[Maximian]

One of the intentions of the Vatican Council II was for the Church to open up to society,

“Vatican II threw the doors open - and everyone left.”

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Good point, IMO. I guess we must be charitable, and hope that good works make our faith attractive. As was the case through the centuries.

That and one more hurdle. Convince others that they need organized faith as opposed to a DIY approach or for some, none.

Not trying to be negative or anything. Oh, and one last thing. Speak up more when that silly “what has religion done for us?” trope comes up. Universities, hospitals, etc etc

 

[Cirdan_XII]

that Vatican II did not cause this. We read here post after post claiming that to say Vatican II caused this is to commit the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc ? It was the culture, the 60’s, the rise of secularism, or the smoke of Satan that caused this, but it was not Vatican II.

But Vatican II was essentially the Church bowing to secular pressure and opening its doors to the culture of the day rather than standing up against it. We can maybe argue about whether or not that was tactically the right thing to do and whether maybe things would be even worse today if the Church had kept that door firmly shut. But the result is that many popular thoughts and sentiments that were not de facto compatible with Catholicism came to be accepted and even preached by the Catholic Church. And many young people, when asked to chose between the real counter culture and the copy of that culture that the Church was trying to be, opted for the original.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

I agree. The Dutch also had Indonesia under their power but did not evangelize it.

There were attempts to evangelize Indonesia, and there are churches in Indonesia that trace their origins to the colonial period. But more recently Muslims have been more succesful at evangelizing and Christians have been increasingly marginalized.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

I do know some people in Holland who are very devoutly Catholic. I have visited a pilgrimage site which appeared to be very popular. And these were not just old folks but lots of families and children too. But I am talking here about people on the conservative edge of Catholicism. I think the mainstream middle of the road strata of Catholicism has largely collapsed away.

 

[Victoria33]

I do know some people in Holland who are very devoutly Catholic. I have visited a pilgrimage site which appeared to be very popular. And these were not just old folks but lots of families and children too. But I am talking here about people on the conservative edge of Catholicism. I think the mainstream middle of the road strata of Catholicism has largely collapsed away.

Yes, there are actually a lot of devout Dutch.

This is really one of those topics that deserves more research.