End of "First Communion" Celebrations in US Melkite Greek Catholic Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter Byz_Guy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
First, there’s a little bit of polemical sleight of hand being used …
By whom?

Again, Eastern Christians, Catholic and Orthodox alike, and knowledgeable Latin Catholics of good will have posted factually here regarding the legitimate and respect traditions of both East and West.

To suggest the use of polemics here is highly offensive.
 
Phillip Rolfes;9044969:
First, there’s a little bit of polemical sleight of hand being used in everyone of your posts on this thread. The Latin Sacred Tradition: big T has to do with knowledgeable reception of the Holy Eucharist, not little t tradition of whom may receive under what conditions in any certain time in history or in the present. We have in our small t traditions that under certain conditions some who normally cannot receive, may receive; for instance a baptized Catholic receiving the Last Rites or very near to death is given Holy Viaticum even though the person’s concious faculties, to say Amen, are gone.
Sir, the first time that anyone receives the Holy Eucharist is their First Holy Communion, unless somehow Byzantines can stop all communicants throughout their lives from gaining this knowledge they cannot stop First Communions.
The Melkites who were practicing the solemn communions were not violating any Sacred Tradition Latin Or Byzantine, they did not start withholding the Eucharist from the infant baptism rites, did they? Now you say they commited an abuse.
You are wrong.
 
Phillip Rolfes;9044969:
First, there’s a little bit of polemical sleight of hand being used in everyone of your posts on this thread. The Latin Sacred Tradition: big T has to do with knowledgeable reception of the Holy Eucharist, not little t tradition of whom may receive under what conditions in any certain time in history or in the present. We have in our small t traditions that under certain conditions some who normally cannot receive, may receive; for instance a baptized Catholic receiving the Last Rites or very near to death is given Holy Viaticum even though the person’s concious faculties, to say Amen, are gone.
Sir, the first time that anyone receives the Holy Eucharist is their First Holy Communion, unless somehow Byzantines can stop all communicants throughout their lives from gaining this knowledge they cannot stop First Communions.
The Melkites who were practicing the solemn communions were not violating any Sacred Tradition Latin Or Byzantine, they did not start withholding the Eucharist from the infant baptism rites, did they? Now you say they commited an abuse.
First Holy Communion celebrations that have arisen in Eastern Churches have tended not to be celebrations of the unified sacrament of initiation; rather, they have tended to be imitations of Roman Catholic practice. In other words, they have involved instances in which children were baptized and chrismated in infancy, but not given communion until they were several years old. This separation of admittance to Holy Communion from baptism is inconsistent with our ancient traditions and it violates our canon law. First Holy Communion celebrations of the sort that one encounters in the Roman Catholic Church simply do not belong in the Eastern Churches.
 
First, there’s a little bit of polemical sleight of hand being used in everyone of your posts on this thread. The Latin Sacred Tradition: big T has to do with knowledgeable reception of the Holy Eucharist, not little t tradition of whom may receive under what conditions in any certain time in history or in the present. We have in our small t traditions that under certain conditions some who normally cannot receive, may receive; for instance a baptized Catholic receiving the Last Rites or very near to death is given Holy Viaticum even though the person’s concious faculties, to say Amen, are gone.
Sir, the first time that anyone receives the Holy Eucharist is their First Holy Communion, unless somehow Byzantines can stop all communicants throughout their lives from gaining this knowledge they cannot stop First Communions.
The Melkites who were practicing the solemn communions were not violating any Sacred Tradition Latin Or Byzantine, they did not start withholding the Eucharist from the infant baptism rites, did they? Now you say they commited an abuse.
Big T tradition is the tradition of the apostolic church. It’s the deposit of faith. Things like how we understand the verses which dictate an all-male priesthood fall under Big T Tradition. Small T traditions are how we do it. You think a person being old enough and of sufficient intelligence to know and comprehend the Eucharist before receiving it is a big T tradition?

First, there are very few among us who’d ever be able to receive. Second, that means all the Eastern Churches that practice infant communion are in violation of Sacred Tradition. Third, that means the west was in violation for a long time, and that time was closest to the apostolic age. Fourth, I understand now why you have a problem with the Melkite bishop’s direction to his faithful telling them to keep their traditions.
 
Phillip Rolfes;9044969:
First, there’s a little bit of polemical sleight of hand being used in everyone of your posts on this thread. The Latin Sacred Tradition: big T has to do with knowledgeable reception of the Holy Eucharist, not little t tradition of whom may receive under what conditions in any certain time in history or in the present. We have in our small t traditions that under certain conditions some who normally cannot receive, may receive; for instance a baptized Catholic receiving the Last Rites or very near to death is given Holy Viaticum even though the person’s concious faculties, to say Amen, are gone.
Sir, the first time that anyone receives the Holy Eucharist is their First Holy Communion, unless somehow Byzantines can stop all communicants throughout their lives from gaining this knowledge they cannot stop First Communions.
The Melkites who were practicing the solemn communions were not violating any Sacred Tradition Latin Or Byzantine, they did not start withholding the Eucharist from the infant baptism rites, did they? Now you say they commited an abuse.
If I might say something.

Brumano, the point is that the traditional way of receiving First Holy Communion within those Churches that utilize the Byzantine rite is that it is given immediately after Baptism and Chrismation. After this, the newly illuminated Christian is given access to the Mystery of the Altar, presuming of course they are properly disposed (First Reconciliation does not take place until usually around 7-8 years of age, and from then on one must avail themselves of that Mystery to prepare for Communion). This is historical fact, and can be backed up without any issue.

The issue is that something that was foreign to the liturgical and pastoral praxis of the Churches of Byzantine rite (in this case, the Melkites) was inserted into their practice. The reasons for this are questionable and, given the circumstance, were in no way an authentic organic development. It would seem, on the contrary, that it was done under pressure in order to prove to those of the Latin rite that they were in fact Catholic.

As such, this would qualify as an imposition upon another Church’s tradition. Furthermore, it was seemingly done not because there was a massive shift in the practice of its persons; rather, it was done in the spirit of a child trying to prove to their siblings that they’re cool enough to play with them.

What the Bishop is doing is removing such an foreign intrusion from his people. And when he chides those who want “parties” and whatnot, he is not necessarily condemning them celebrating the child’s (or adult’s) First Holy Communion. Rather, he is condemning those who wish to maintain this foreign imposition for the such reasons as “fond remembrance” and “celebrating with a party”. Instead, he asks them to look to higher things and deeper meanings- namely, that they are returning to the authentic tradition of their forefathers.

This has nothing to do with condemning the Latin tradition (in and of itself) of having a separate time in which a person receives their First Holy Communion. Rather, he is taking that is which is foreign and was imposed upon his people and removing it. He does not condemn the Latins for maintaining their own tradition.

Perhaps it should also be mentioned that, broadly speaking, many aspects of liturgical praxis are considered to be apart of a Church’s patrimony, and therefore their Sacred Tradition. As such, it can (and in many cases, is) be viewed that separating the First Communion from Baptism and Chrismation was a violation of Sacred Tradition.
 
BREAKING NEWS
Bishop Aquila receives Pope’s praise for reordering sacraments
Rome, Italy, Mar 8, 2012 / 03:58 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo said he is delighted to have first-hand papal approval for changing the order by which children in his diocese receive the sacraments.
“I was very surprised in what the Pope said to me, in terms of how happy he was that the sacraments of initiation have been restored to their proper order of baptism, confirmation then first Eucharist,” said Bishop Aquila, after meeting Pope Benedict on March 8.

Bishop Aquila was one of five bishops from North and South Dakota to meet with Pope Benedict XVI at the Vatican as part of their March 5-10 “ad limina” visit to the Rome.
Over the past seven years the Diocese of Fargo has changed the typical order of the sacraments of initiation. Instead of confirmation coming third and at an older age, it is now conferred on children at a younger age and prior to First Communion.

Bishop Aquila said he made the changes because “it really puts the emphasis on the Eucharist as being what completes the sacraments of initiation” and on confirmation as “sealing and completing baptism.”
When the sacraments are conferred in this order, he said, it becomes more obvious that “both baptism and confirmation lead to the Eucharist.” This sacramental assistance helps Catholics live “that intimate relationship of being the beloved sons and daughters of the Father in our daily lives,” he added.

The Bishop of Fargo said the changes have also distanced the Sacrament of Confirmation from “some false theologies that see it as being a sacrament of maturity or as a sacrament for ‘me choosing God.’”
Instead, young people in Fargo now have “the fullness of the spirit and the completion of the gifts of the spirit” to assist them in “living their lives within the world,” especially “in the trials they face in junior high and high school.”
Bishop Aquila explained his theological thinking to Pope Benedict during today’s meeting.
In response, he said, the Pope asked if he had “begun to speak to other bishops about this.” He told the pontiff that he had and that “certainly bishops within the Dakotas are now really looking towards the implementation in the restoration in the ordering of the sacraments.”
source: CNA/EWTN
 
When Orthodox like some ACROD parishes had First Solemn Communion was this after the children had already in fact been communed since infancy and this was more like first penance or did those ACROD parishes actually not commune their infants during that period?

I was mentioning this thread to my deacon last night driving home and he said when he was in seminary a number of years ago with Bishop Samra as his teacher the Bishop told a story about visiting a parish one Sunday and suddenly a bunch of girls appeared in their white dress and were doing something, he didn’t know what. He asked the priest what was going on. Priest said it was their First Solemn/Holy Communion to which Bishop Samra told the priest “You commune them, I’m not doing it!” Clearly Sayendna Nicholas has been making his insistence on the return to tradition clear for some time now.
 
Diocese of Fargo stated in the July/August 2011 issue of New Earth, that the children “receive first reconciliation in their parishes when they are in second grade. When they are in third grade, they receive both confirmation and first Eucharist during a Mass celebrated by the bishop”.

So second grade is about age 7-8. So then they wait one more year for the confirmation and first Eucharist. So it fits with the Latin sacramental discipline rather than the eastern discipline Because the eastern emphasizes the nurturing of the Holy Spirit, rather than the rational comprehension, receiving 7-8 years of that nuturing before the Holy Mystery of Confession.
 
Diocese of Fargo stated in the July/August 2011 issue of New Earth, that the children “receive first reconciliation in their parishes when they are in second grade. When they are in third grade, they receive both confirmation and first Eucharist during a Mass celebrated by the bishop”.

So second grade is about age 7-8. So then they wait one more year for the confirmation and first Eucharist. So it fits with the Latin sacramental discipline rather than the eastern discipline Because the eastern emphasizes the nurturing of the Holy Spirit, rather than the rational comprehension, receiving 7-8 years of that nuturing before the Holy Mystery of Confession.
I understand, Vico, and your post here is helpful for the record, as always. FYI - I posted this news flash here quite intentionally, given some of the feedback given by some to the majority of Eastern Christian and genuinely charitable Latin Catholics on this genesis subject of this thread. In the context of the recent string of posts, I hope it will make more sense to you. I was certainly not trying to use this news to express any disagreement with Sayedna Samra’s position.
 
When Orthodox like some ACROD parishes had First Solemn Communion was this after the children had already in fact been communed since infancy and this was more like first penance or did those ACROD parishes actually not commune their infants during that period?
This was also a transitional practice in the Ruthenian Church for a while, now being phased out / down. There is a First Solemn Penance, and the children will receive the Holy Eucharist together as a group at the next Divine Liturgy, but to emphasize their maturity and completion of the Mystery of Reconciliation.
 
I understand, Vico, and your post here is helpful for the record, as always. FYI - I posted this news flash here quite intentionally, given some of the feedback given by some to the majority of Eastern Christian and genuinely charitable Latin Catholics on this genesis subject of this thread. In the context of the recent string of posts, I hope it will make more sense to you. I was certainly not trying to use this news to express any disagreement with Sayedna Samra’s position.
All good, I did not think you were disagreeing with him.
 
This was also a transitional practice in the Ruthenian Church for a while, now being phased out / down. There is a First Solemn Penance, and the children will receive the Holy Eucharist together as a group at the next Divine Liturgy, but to emphasize their maturity and completion of the Mystery of Reconciliation.
My question was about the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox, ACORD, whether when doing this they simply did not commune their children until this “First Solemn Communion”, or was the child in fact receiving Eucharist from infancy forward and this “First Solemn Communion” was not a first reception of Eucharist but a commemoration of another sort, such as first Penance (plus of course the all important cool dress and party :)) while called “First Solemn Communion”?
 
My question was about the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox, ACORD, whether when doing this they simply did not commune their children until this “First Solemn Communion”, or was the child in fact receiving Eucharist from infancy forward and this “First Solemn Communion” was not a first reception of Eucharist but a commemoration of another sort, such as first Penance (plus of course the all important cool dress and party :)) while called “First Solemn Communion”?
I understand, but the practice and the terminology usage is exactly the same in both cases (bear in mind that ACROD faithful and Byzantine Ruthenians share the same heritage). These children in all likelihood received the Holy Eucharist with Baptism and Chrismation. The use of the word “Solemn” was to distinguish this communal reception of Holy Eucharist, following First Penance, from a true First Holy Communion. For those children who may not have been fully initiated (previously baptized and chrismated only, as sometimes was the case during the transition back to the full Rites of Christian Initiation), this would indeed be their First Holy Eucharist, an exceptional case.

ACROD, as a ecclesiastic body under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, follows Orthodox traditions including the full Rites of Christian Initiation. As confimed recently by a family friend and priest of ACROD, any other practice would constitute an abuse. Embedded in Eastern thought is the central importance of the Holy Eucharist, a major reason for communing infants aside from ancient origins of practice (as I’m sure you know ;)).
 
I just want to clarify that there is a post under my name that is floating around these last couple of pages of this thread. It was, however, not a post that I made, but one that Brumano made in response to me. I don’t know how it ended up being attributed to me, and it doesn’t really matter. Technology is capable of making mistakes. I just want to be clear that it is not from me. I will respond to that post in my next post. 😃
 
First, there’s a little bit of polemical sleight of hand being used in everyone of your posts on this thread. The Latin Sacred Tradition: big T has to do with knowledgeable reception of the Holy Eucharist, not little t tradition of whom may receive under what conditions in any certain time in history or in the present. We have in our small t traditions that under certain conditions some who normally cannot receive, may receive; for instance a baptized Catholic receiving the Last Rites or very near to death is given Holy Viaticum even though the person’s concious faculties, to say Amen, are gone.
Sir, the first time that anyone receives the Holy Eucharist is their First Holy Communion, unless somehow Byzantines can stop all communicants throughout their lives from gaining this knowledge they cannot stop First Communions.
The Melkites who were practicing the solemn communions were not violating any Sacred Tradition Latin Or Byzantine, they did not start withholding the Eucharist from the infant baptism rites, did they? Now you say they commited an abuse.
There is no such polemical slight of hand going on in any one of my posts. I am simply referring to historical fact. What you call the “Latin Sacred Tradition: big T” is actually a local tradition (small “t”) of the Latin Church. It is only in the Latin Church that you find any teachings about the “age of reason” and its relevance for the reception of Holy Communion (and that only recently in Church history). Byzantine Churches (of which the Melkite Church is one) and other Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches have always persisted in admitting infants to Holy Communion from the first moment of their initiation into the life of the Church.

What Bishop Samra is attempting to eradicate from the liturgical practice of the Melkites in the U.S. is the delaying of First Holy Communion until after the so-called “age of reason” by some of the pastors under his jurisdiction. Another abuse that has occurred in the Melkite Church, among other Byzantine Churches, is the practice of Communicating an infant immediately after baptism, but then denying them Communion until the so-called “age of reason” and then celebrating a First Solemn Communion. Neither of these represent the authentic tradition of the Churches of the Byzantine tradition (of which the Melkites are, again, one) and in fact such practices fly in the face of the theology, liturgy, and spirituality of the Byzantine East.

Of course there must of necessity be a first time that each one of us receives the Eucharist. That is not the issue at stake here. The issue is, as I have mentioned above, two-fold: 1) Melkite priests delaying the reception of the Eucharist until the so-called “age of reason.” This means not actually giving an infant Communion immediately after Baptism and Chrismation, but putting it off until some time around the ages of 5-7. Such a practice is the equivalent, more-or-less, of what Latin Catholics do. The problem here is that it is not a part of authentic Byzantine tradition, and as such must be replaced by authentic Byzantine tradition as is our right, and per the very clear instructions of past bishops for the Eparchy of Newton, the Melkite Synod of Bishops, the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches, the documents of Vatican II, and the instructions of Popes. 2) The second issue is Melkite priests who admit infants to Holy Communion immediately after their Baptism and Chrismation, but after the day of their initiation denying them the Eucharist until the so-called “age of reason.” This is problematic not only because it is not authentic Byzantine tradition, but also because it amounts to an excommunication of the infant until the so-called “age of reason.”

Your denial that the Melkites were violating the tradition of the Byzantine East by practicing both First Communion (in the same manner as Roman Catholics) and First Solemn Communion is simply false.
 
Well, it seems my own use of technology has perpetuated the mistake I pointed out above. 😛

Edit: Problem solved! 😃
 
From a letter read today, February 12, in all US Melkite Greek Catholic parishes from Bishop Nicholas Samra, mandating the end of “First Communion” celebrations in US Melkite parishes (which goes against the traditional Eastern practice of Infant Communion):
I actually wasn’t aware that Eparchy of Newton parishes even had First Communion celebrations. I knew that they have Second Grade Eucharistic Awareness, but that’s not the same thing obviously.
 
I actually wasn’t aware that Eparchy of Newton parishes even had First Communion celebrations. I knew that they have Second Grade Eucharistic Awareness, but that’s not the same thing obviously.
It’s not truly “First Communion”, but rather “First Solemn Communion”. The kids are Communed at Baptism, and continue to be Communed throughout their childhood. Typically this is just a “special” Communion that takes place as a group after their first Confessions. With that in mind I actually don’t have too much of a problem with the practice per se, except that it has primarily been a way to mimic Latin practice when there’s not traditional place for it.

Peace and God bless!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top