End of "First Communion" Celebrations in US Melkite Greek Catholic Church

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It’s not truly “First Communion”, but rather “First Solemn Communion”. The kids are Communed at Baptism, and continue to be Communed throughout their childhood. Typically this is just a “special” Communion that takes place as a group after their first Confessions. With that in mind I actually don’t have too much of a problem with the practice per se, except that it has primarily been a way to mimic Latin practice when there’s not traditional place for it.

Peace and God bless!
This is what I was attempting to clarify as far as the ACORD Orthodox. Here it seems from what was posted that indeed there are parishes in the Eparchy which do not commune infants at their baptism. This is referred to several places in the Pastoral Letter
In 1967, our Patriarchal Synod reestablished the administration of the Eucharist to infants in response to the Vatican II Decree on the Eastern Churches. The Synod recognized the legitimacy of returning to this ancient discipline. “It is to be considered an obligatory part of the Christian Initiation of infants in this Eparchy and is not to be omitted” stated Archbishop Joseph Tawil on page 7 in his General Policy for the Administration of the Sacraments of Christian Initiation promulgated on October 12, 1981 and never rescinded by any of his successors. He reinstituted this proper discipline as a general practice in the 1970’s and made it official in 1981.
…In each parish and mission I inaugurated catechesis and was able to successfully eliminate First Communion ceremonies and the like and** reinstitute infant communion**…
There may be other references to this in the Letter but those two are enough to indicate that indeed there are parishes where the First Communion is indeed a first Eucharist and that Sayendna Nicholas is saying they have had since at least 1981 to return to the proper tradition of all Sacraments of Initiation together at Baptism.
 
Big T tradition is the tradition of the apostolic church. It’s the deposit of faith. Things like how we understand the verses which dictate an all-male priesthood fall under Big T Tradition. Small T traditions are how we do it. You think a person being old enough and of sufficient intelligence to know and comprehend the Eucharist before receiving it is a big T tradition?

First, there are very few among us who’d ever be able to receive. Second, that means all the Eastern Churches that practice infant communion are in violation of Sacred Tradition. Third, that means the west was in violation for a long time, and that time was closest to the apostolic age. Fourth, I understand now why you have a problem with the Melkite bishop’s direction to his faithful telling them to keep their traditions.
The Deposit of faith is the acruement of all revealled truth, all the tradtions, all the doctrines all the moral codes all the sacramental practices, all the norms for worship, all the canonized truths, all the Christian virtues all, all the Sacred teachings all the everything having to do with the one true faith of the one true church in all of it’s members in the living mystical body of Christ; and this is putting everything very briefly. Apostolic Traditions are the teachings of the Apostles and their successors in any time, from time to time by Apostolic reasoning and the guarantee of the Holy Spirit made by Christ. The Sacred Deposit of Faith is solidity itself, yet there is pliabilty in every time for growth, renewal, and reaffirmation of unchanging truth.

Things like how we understand that the priesthood is all male is more than just from the Scripture verses as we understand them, Sacred Tradition is necessary to establish that the all male priesthood is an absolute Sacred Doctrine, that is unchangeable.

Yes I do think it, they have to be of sufficient age and reasoning ability, and here’s the big one that’s been being left out; faith, to know what the Sacrament is and to know that they are entering into Communion themselves, they receive the Body of Christ. If someone presents for communion and they do not say amen, they will not be given it. We also have to realize by the Sacred teachings of the Church, that if we knowingly and conciously receive while knowingly in the state of mortal sin we commit a very grave sin against the Sacrament itself. All this has to do with the impeccable Holiness of the Eucharist. This does not require superhuman intelligence or perfection which none of us at all have.
None of us comprehend the Eucharist, Mary the Mother of God comprehends it but that’s just a personal belief of mine, but no of course we cannot comprehend it, that in itself should never stop anyone from receiving it.

Now if what you are getting at here is really who would be totally worthy to receive it, then you’re wrong there wouldn’t be a few there would be virtually none.
There there would have been no violations East or West, where no formal rule of Tradition was established. The Easterners all say that infant communion was given throughout the church from the beginining of the church, but the fact is little is really known about the exact practices for infants in the earliest history of the church which is contained, not in history books, but in the New Testament. The traditions we see there really have to do with persons older than infancy, and those traditions are very stringent as to who may even be baptized let alone charismated and communicated.This is a really vast subject to task on.
 
Brumano,

I haven’t read all the posts here so perhaps this has been mentioned.

What are your thoughts on this section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm
1244 First Holy Communion. Having become a child of God clothed with the wedding garment, the neophyte is admitted "to the marriage supper of the Lamb"44 and receives the food of the new life, the body and blood of Christ. The Eastern Churches maintain a lively awareness of the unity of Christian initiation by giving Holy Communion to all the newly baptized and confirmed, even little children, recalling the Lord’s words: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them.” The Latin Church, which reserves admission to Holy Communion to those who have attained the age of reason, expresses the orientation of Baptism to the Eucharist by having the newly baptized child brought to the altar for the praying of the Our Father.
If the Catechism of the Catholic Church recognizes the Eastern tradition as legitimate, why do you object?
 
Brumano,

I haven’t read all the posts here so perhaps this has been mentioned.

What are your thoughts on this section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

If the Catechism of the Catholic Church recognizes the Eastern tradition as legitimate, why do you object?
The objection was not to this dogma from the catechism, and it can be readily adapted to support both traditional practices. The objection was to the objection to the practice of a solemn Eucharistic or Communion liturgy that was being held by Melkite Greek Catholics in the Eparchy of Newton, that was raised by their Bishop. He issued a letter insisting the practice be stopped, and as it seems mostly because it tends to lend legitimacy, and momentum to the First Communion pratices and Eucharistic Theology known traditionally as the Latin practice. That’s really the rub here on this thread, if both practices are legitimate why should a practice that does not detract from either, or from one against the other, be stiflled and censured as being somehow… uh I don’t know, wrong I guess is what they’re saying, of the members who were practicing it.

The section from the Cathechism,1244 does not in anyway rule out solemn communion masses or liturgies; it really just states in a general way what the two traditions basically are; the emboldened statement would to me support the communion of the little children at a young age more than it does infants, oh say maybe about, ah 7 yrs. old.
 
The objection was not to this dogma from the catechism, and it can be readily adapted to support both traditional practices. The objection was to the objection to the practice of a solemn Eucharistic or Communion liturgy that was being held by Melkite Greek Catholics in the Eparchy of Newton, that was raised by their Bishop. He issued a letter insisting the practice be stopped, and as it seems mostly because it tends to lend legitimacy, and momentum to the First Communion pratices and Eucharistic Theology known traditionally as the Latin practice. That’s really the rub here on this thread, if both practices are legitimate why should a practice that does not detract from either, or from one against the other, be stiflled and censured as being somehow… uh I don’t know, wrong I guess is what they’re saying, of the members who were practicing it.

The section from the Cathechism,1244 does not in anyway rule out solemn communion masses or liturgies; it really just states in a general way what the two traditions basically are; the emboldened statement would to me support the communion of the little children at a young age more than it does infants, oh say maybe about, ah 7 yrs. old.
Once again, Brumano, you are simply wrong. Bishop Nicholas is only doing what a good bishop should do-expect priests to be faithful to their traditionas and to CHURCH LAW. The CCEO (Eastern Code of Canon Law) actually required chrismation (Canon 695) to be adminstered together with baptism, except in cases of true necessity, and in those cases, as soon as possible. Furthermore, the CCEO requires that eucharist be administered following baptism and chrismation as soon as possible (Canon 697). So, apart from cases of true necessity, baptism, chrismation, and eucharist are required to be administerd all within the same liturgy. This simply leaves no place for confirmation of=r First Holy Communion celebrations (except as part of celebrating all three sacraments of initiation) in the Eastern traditions. Why can you not understand this? It’s not a matter of despising Latin practices, it’s a matter of being faithful both to our liturgical traditions and our canon law.
 
The section from the Cathechism,1244 does not in anyway rule out solemn communion masses or liturgies; it really just states in a general way what the two traditions basically are; the emboldened statement would to me support the communion of the little children at a young age more than it does infants, oh say maybe about, ah 7 yrs. old.
Brumano,

I never said the Catechism in section 1244 rules out solemn communion liturgies.

Your statement:
the emboldened statement would to me support the communion of the little children at a young age more than it does infants, oh say maybe about, ah 7 yrs. old.
Huh? Read it again:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm
1244 First Holy Communion. Having become a child of God clothed with the wedding garment, the neophyte is admitted "to the marriage supper of the Lamb"44 and receives the food of the new life, the body and blood of Christ. The Eastern Churches maintain a lively awareness of the unity of Christian initiation by giving Holy Communion to all the newly baptized and confirmed, even little children, recalling the Lord’s words: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them.” The Latin Church, which reserves admission to Holy Communion to those who have attained the age of reason, expresses the orientation of Baptism to the Eucharist by having the newly baptized child brought to the altar for the praying of the Our Father.
It says the Eastern Church tradition is to give “Holy Communion to all the newly baptized and confirmed.”

So, in the Eastern Church when infants are baptized and confirmed they also receive Holy Communion – according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
The objection was not to this dogma from the catechism, and it can be readily adapted to support both traditional practices. The objection was to the objection to the practice of a solemn Eucharistic or Communion liturgy that was being held by Melkite Greek Catholics in the Eparchy of Newton, that was raised by their Bishop. He issued a letter insisting the practice be stopped, and as it seems mostly because it tends to lend legitimacy, and momentum to the First Communion pratices and Eucharistic Theology known traditionally as the Latin practice. That’s really the rub here on this thread, if both practices are legitimate why should a practice that does not detract from either, or from one against the other, be stiflled and censured as being somehow… uh I don’t know, wrong I guess is what they’re saying, of the members who were practicing it.

The section from the Cathechism,1244 does not in anyway rule out solemn communion masses or liturgies; it really just states in a general way what the two traditions basically are; the emboldened statement would to me support the communion of the little children at a young age more than it does infants, oh say maybe about, ah 7 yrs. old.
It is possible to wait for baptism, and sometimes there are good reasons for it. Accrording to the CCEO (eastern canon law) the three Holy Mysteries of Christian Initiation are to be given together, infant or adult. I have been present for both infant and adult forms (all three Holy Mysteries at once) many times. Also I have been present for Chrismation and Eucharist of Christian converts a few times.

Canon 695.1. Chrismation with holy myron must be administered in conjunction with baptism, except in a case of true necessity, in which case, however, it is to be seen that it is administered as soon as possible.

Canon 697 Sacramental initiation in the mystery of salvation is perfected in the reception of the Divine Eucharist, and thus the Divine Eucharist is administered after baptism and chrismation with holy myron as soon as possible according to the norms of the particular law of the each Church sui iuris.
 
The fact that Latin traditions are good for the Latins and Byzantine traditions are good for the Melkites…what is it you don’t get?

Why do you think the Melkites should retain traditions that are NOT theirs? 🤷
What you just posted, Latin traditions are good for Latins but Byzantine traditions are good for Melkites, why couldn’t Melkite traditions be Melkite if they are good?
 
What you just posted, Latin traditions are good for Latins but Byzantine traditions are good for Melkites, why couldn’t Melkite traditions be Melkite if they are good?
The Melkite tradition is Byzantine. The very name Melkite is derived from the Syriac word for imperial.
 
The Melkite tradition is Byzantine. The very name Melkite is derived from the Syriac word for imperial.
It’s etymology wouldn’t have anything to do Melkezidek would it, the King of Salem? I think it’s in Kings I’ll have to look it up, who brought the bread and wine to the altar of sacrifice amidst all the bloody sacrifices of the the other Kings? He’s a very important figure in the development of the true priesthood and the truly authentic Eucharistic practices. If so maybe the Byzantines should consider following their rediscovering of authenticity as preeminent, not the other way around.

Or maybe Melchior on eof the Kings of the East who travelled to see themselve the virgin and child at Bethelhem.
 
The word “Melkite” derives from the common Semitic word for “king” (“malko” in Syro-Aramaic, “melekh” in Hebrew, “malik” in Arabic).
 
It’s etymology wouldn’t have anything to do Melkezidek would it, the King of Salem?
Melkite and Melchizedek both contain the root for “king”. Melchizedek is mentioned in Genesis, but I forget the chapter #.
 
Melkite and Melchizedek both contain the root for “king”. Melchizedek is mentioned in Genesis, but I forget the chapter #.
Wow, look at all the references in Hebrews:

Genesis 14:18**, Psalm 110:4****, Hebrews 5:6, Hebrews 6:20,**** Hebrews 7:1,9-11,15,17,21**
 
It is clear from this document that Rome expects the Eastern Churches to restores their traditions and liturgical practices without delay.
Would Rome be so kind to insist upon the same of her own Rite, she would perhaps be taken more seriously by the Eastern Churches. Having created outright bans on many older Latin traditions, for 40 years and dioceses not opening Latin masses in a single parish ever until the SSPX opens on nearby does not encourage us to view these requests with seriousness. Until recently most dioceses stated that we “did not fulfill our Sunday obligation” if we attended the only traditional latin mass in the area, when it was FSSPX. Many people chose the byzantine rite instead if it was available to avoid that confusing game.

At the present time the entire concept of “Holy tradition” and what it means and what is genuine is somewhat dubious from the double speak we hear in churches and vatican departments.

Yeah, so the tradition for the Latin church now is that the priest is supposed to face liturgical West away from the apse for most of the Mass, whereas the tradition for the Byzantine is to continue to face liturgical East.

The tradition that’s been established is the tradition of “do-it-yourself make it up as we go along and call it early christian archaeology”.

It seems madness to me.
 
Would Rome be so kind to insist upon the same of her own Rite, she would perhaps be taken more seriously by the Eastern Churches. Having created outright bans on many older Latin traditions, for 40 years and dioceses not opening Latin masses in a single parish ever until the SSPX opens on nearby does not encourage us to view these requests with seriousness. Until recently most dioceses stated that we “did not fulfill our Sunday obligation” if we attended the only traditional latin mass in the area, when it was FSSPX. Many people chose the byzantine rite instead if it was available to avoid that confusing game.

At the present time the entire concept of “Holy tradition” and what it means and what is genuine is somewhat dubious from the double speak we hear in churches and vatican departments.

Yeah, so the tradition for the Latin church now is that the priest is supposed to face liturgical West away from the apse for most of the Mass, whereas the tradition for the Byzantine is to continue to face liturgical East.

The tradition that’s been established is the tradition of “do-it-yourself make it up as we go along and call it early christian archaeology”.

It seems madness to me.
This is not really pertinent to the topic at hand. We are discussing here a Melkite bishop insisting on the authentic traditions of the Melkite Church. This bishop has authority by the fact of being a bishop to insist upon the reintegration of the authentic traditions. He does, however, cite Rome’s insistence in order to support his own insistence. However, he does not cite Rome for the sake of obedience to Rome, but simply for support.

That being said, Rome has also consistently urged Roman Catholics to return to their own roots and traditions, as well as a more authentic expression of her own Liturgy. The fact that a great number of people have insisted on being disobedient to Rome’s insistence is no fault of Rome herself.
 
Wow, look at all the references in Hebrews:

Genesis 14:18**, Psalm 110:4****, Hebrews 5:6, Hebrews 6:20,**** Hebrews 7:1,9-11,15,17,21**
Thank you, I think it’s Heb ch 5 St. Paul talks about infants being given milk, not solid food and that some adults can’t even be given solid food, because they are spiritually infants. There’s just so much scripture and sacred tradition that weighs for the reception of the Eucharist at an appropriate age of concious reason I don’t see how anyone can be so adamantly opposed to an innocent solemn communion rite or liturgy being offered and celebrated legitimately.
 
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