End of the 60's is near

[PatienceAndLove]

Since this is posted in “Liturgy and Sacrmaments”, I am assuming that the OP intended to share this cartoon as imagery of what the Papa Benny is doing to help curb the craziness that resulted in the Church during the 60s and after Vatican II.

As for the women veiling and not doing things in mass thing, I see nothing wrong with it- and I am a 23 year old woman who was raised in the V2 Church and has a mother who is a Lector and an EMHC. My father and little sister are EMHCs, and I am trained as one as well. I would prefer that the women around me were veiled, that my mother were not a lector, and that the congregation knelt at an altar rail to receive Our Lord on the tongue.
Call me a Catholic Fundie if you want, but I hope that the Pope brings the Church back to what V2 intended rather than the craziness that ensued.

 

[bones_IV]

Since this is posted in “Liturgy and Sacrmaments”, I am assuming that the OP intended to share this cartoon as imagery of what the Papa Benny is doing to help curb the craziness that resulted in the Church during the 60s and after Vatican II.

As for the women veiling and not doing things in mass thing, I see nothing wrong with it- and I am a 23 year old woman who was raised in the V2 Church and has a mother who is a Lector and an EMHC. My father and little sister are EMHCs, and I am trained as one as well. I would prefer that the women around me were veiled, that my mother were not a lector, and that the congregation knelt at an altar rail to receive Our Lord on the tongue.
Call me a Catholic Fundie if you want, but I hope that the Pope brings the Church back to what V2 intended rather than the craziness that ensued.

thanks

 

[JuanMilton]

Since this is posted in “Liturgy and Sacrmaments”, I am assuming that the OP intended to share this cartoon as imagery of what the Papa Benny is doing to help curb the craziness that resulted in the Church during the 60s and after Vatican II.

As for the women veiling and not doing things in mass thing, I see nothing wrong with it- and I am a 23 year old woman who was raised in the V2 Church and has a mother who is a Lector and an EMHC. My father and little sister are EMHCs, and I am trained as one as well. I would prefer that the women around me were veiled, that my mother were not a lector, and that the congregation knelt at an altar rail to receive Our Lord on the tongue.
Call me a Catholic Fundie if you want, but I hope that the Pope brings the Church back to what V2 intended rather than the craziness that ensued.

Un-veiled women; women readers (not lectors); women EMsHC; standing to receive communion and communion-in-hand are hardly “the craziness that ensued.” Yet some believe it is and they are so sadly mistaken.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Un-veiled women; women readers (not lectors); women EMsHC; standing to receive communion and communion-in-hand are hardly “the craziness that ensued.” Yet some believe it is and they are so sadly mistaken.

In your opinion. I have my own.
And I did not feel like listing all of my V2 Church grievances, thank you. I was merely using that list to highlight certain things that were mentioned in previous posts.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Un-veiled women; women readers (not lectors); women EMsHC; standing to receive communion and communion-in-hand are hardly “the craziness that ensued.” Yet some believe it is and they are so sadly mistaken.

Something from Archbishop Ranjith, the Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship:

"Let us distinguish carefully. The post-conciliar reform was not entirely negative; on the contrary, there are many positive aspects in what has been realised. But there are also changes introduced without authorisation which continue to be carried forward despite their harmful effects on the faith and liturgical life of the Church.

I speak for example of a change that was brought about in the reform which was not proposed either by the Council Fathers or by Sacrosanctum Concilium, that is, communion in the hand. This contributed in a way to a certain loss of faith in the real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This practice, and the abolition of the altar rails, of kneelers in churches, and the introduction of practices which obliged the faithful to remain seated or standing during the elevation of the Most Holy Sacrament reduced the genuine meaning of the Eucharist and the sense of profound adoration which the Church should direct towards the Lord, the Only-begotten Son of God."

As for the cartoon: I’ve seen it before and I thought it was rather nice. I believe that this true, that indeed the 60’s are over!

Pax!

 

[THurifer2]

Face it the Boomers have been quite successful in demoralizing the world. Until they are gone we will get the same tripe from them about backwards marching… I belong to a rosary group at my parish which is made up of Gen Xers…inerestingly, we have found that it is the aging boomers who scoff at our devotion to the rosary. it is no secret that Gen X and the Boomers don’t see eye to eye. It would be lying if I denied the fact that I find satisfaction in the moaning of the Boomers about the direction the church seems to be returning to. In fact…it almost makes me giggle with delight. I just hope that the Boomers’ children don’t end up as bad as their parents…Now with that said i invite the Boomers to move over so that us Gen Xers can fix the world that they are responsible for ruining. I feel that we are obligated to restore the world that the Boomers’ parents fought so hard for.

P.S. I don’t mean all boomers but their generation in General

 

[pete_29]

This shows how little you know about what the average Catholic was taught in Pre-Vatican II.

Jim

I was taught pre Vatican II, and I can’t remember being taught any of the things you have written. You seem to be defending the 60’s by stating what was bad about them. I don’t understand this argument.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I had to drop back and read this thread from the beginning. Very interesting observations - some of which were totally off the mark.

Racism before, during, and after Vatican II. Do you honestly think that HMC would have put out signs along the Communion rail which said “reserved for our colored parishoners”? Have you ever seen your archbishop (live on television) excommunicating a civil official and two women who were protesting his decision to integrate Catholic schools years before public school integration was mandated? I was there. I saw it with my own eyes. People were racist not HMC.

Secondly, this assumption that all of my generation were perfectly happy with what happened. Nothing could be further from the truth. We accepted the changes out of obedience to the magisterium of HMC. What else could we do?

Corporal punishment by the nuns and brothers. My protestant father worked two jobs to ensure that this Irish kid would get a good education. In light of the times, I am the first one in my family to graduate with a baccalaureate degree much less a master’s. Catholic schools existed so that we could get a good education and advance ourselves - Irish, German, Sicilian, Croat and African American. The sisters and brothers were often harsh - I’ll grant you that. But it was expected - the very same ideas of physical punishment existed in the public schools of that time. Not to mention what went on at home. Beaver Cleaver existed only on TV.

My generation as a bunch of hippie Kent State protesters. Didn’t happen down here. I never had long hair. I grew my beard for the Bicentennial when I was in the Navy. Did I tell you I enlisted during the Vietnam war?

What I am trying to say is that there is an untapped reservoir for you Gen X’ers. The concept has been denigrated but have you ever read anything in history about the “Moral Majority”? I think you might be surprised at how many of my generation have a totally opposite view from the more vocal.

 

[Matas]

Allowing married men, would fix this problem in 1 year.

Jim

Allow married men to become priests? I think I see where you are coming from. How about women priests? Would that help solve the vocations crisis too, Jim?

 

[brotherhrolf]

I was taught pre Vatican II, and I can’t remember being taught any of the things you have written. You seem to be defending the 60’s by stating what was bad about them. I don’t understand this argument.

Nor do I. I have the “been there, done that” medal and I don’t have any recollection after 13 years of Catholic school of any of the things he has written either.

 

[THurifer2]

I think you might be surprised at how many of my generation have a totally opposite view from the more vocal.

I hope you are correct.

 

[Shoshana]

Man, oh man, what a discussion over a cartoon. I am a woman, and I am glad at what the Pope is doing. I will obey even if he suggests soemthing. I am so glad that the 60s are over for sure…this Barney-styule God love you and me has brought us nowhere. Although I do not blame Vatican 2 for that. Just those who wished to interpret the document.

I say, bring on the traditional ways…and you watch more people joining, especially young people!

 

[dessert]

bp0.blogger.com/_X6SfstKQluk/R0jbZIaaciI/AAAAAAAAAMA/LDNgn-5nDQ8/s320/EndIsNear.jpg

From Catholic cartoon blogspot.

catholiccartoonblog.blogspot.com/

Somebody should write a book about the real 60’s and what it was really like.

And maybe the 50’s too.

The longhaired hippies were in the minority and lead by the college professsors. Still trying to hope to get a woman for president.Still trying… I thought Jane Fonda would have done it by now ooops I mean NOW.

Jim is right on with much of his statements but are very negative, but we have to understand that the clergy and nuns were driven and taught to run the church like and iron workhouse.
They were allowed to carry big sticks, but this was cultural also so not just only the Church.

This was seen in lots of places so we were all eaqual in our oportunity to get spanked, believe me checked with each others schools

The first words we asked when we got to a new school what do we have todo? No It was who was easy.

I think the church saw it as their job to teach Church and then send us home or to the world, the parents held the last vote.

We were not really legal till 21 and then that was baby steps after that because there were no credit cards to make sure the bank could trust you only if they knew your dad. who is your daddy I remember this a lot. We got their insurance their bank their grocery store to write checks etc. because they knew our daddy.
We were considered untrustworthy till at least 25 or 30 a high risk boy do I remember that, high risk.

You did stay with the husband or wife till death do us part even if we kill each other doing it. Dad was king he got the one bathroom after supper first and you had to wait, I did know some who did not have indoor plumbing for that eek I can’t imagine this today and we were not pooooor. We had the poor, Chinese, transient workers in the summer, barefoot all summer we all went, and we knew we were not poor, because we each had our own a bed, this was a status symbol to have your own bed.

It was fun and colorful. I could not be a hippie not allowed, many went to California to be one and for the nice weather, and be in the communes and I didn’t hear much from them again or that they were missing. But I did become a beetle once, had the haircut for awhile That is what I would have put in the cartoon, an english beetle. or Elvis lookalike .

 

[Shoshana]

Yea, there were good times and bad times, for sure. Authority was obeyed with a tight rod, whether parents, nuns, priests, etc. Obedience was ingrained into us. Deliberation was not an option.

I even went into the convent in '69 and was thrown out. Even if the scores of mty MMRI were very, very good…I was told that i was too intelligent (an IQ was part of the testing) and I stuttered and this combo could cause a problem. So my dream of becoming the bride of christ was shattered because I had no one to direct me. There was no deliberation even after the priest-psychologist tested me…with very good marks of normalcy. That did not count. One authority figure disliked me, and she was the only one in the whole congregation of about 300!!! She was only the Assistant Mother Superior to boot! (Later I found out she died of cancer shortly thereafter…and was miserable to the end). So my vocation teetered on her good humour.

But, there was reverence also…a lot of it. In Church especially. That is not the pattern now so much…the mystery is gone. We only need to go an Eastern Catholic Church celebration to experience that…but we have lost it ourselves. Kids even run in front of the Blessed Sacrament when mass is over…

But things will balance out in time. The Pope knows what he is doing…he is led by the Holy Spirit…let us just listen to him…that is all…

 

[palmas85]

I had to drop back and read this thread from the beginning. Very interesting observations - some of which were totally off the mark.

Racism before, during, and after Vatican II. Do you honestly think that HMC would have put out signs along the Communion rail which said “reserved for our colored parishoners”? Have you ever seen your archbishop (live on television) excommunicating a civil official and two women who were protesting his decision to integrate Catholic schools years before public school integration was mandated? I was there. I saw it with my own eyes. People were racist not HMC.

Secondly, this assumption that all of my generation were perfectly happy with what happened. Nothing could be further from the truth. We accepted the changes out of obedience to the magisterium of HMC. What else could we do?

Corporal punishment by the nuns and brothers. My protestant father worked two jobs to ensure that this Irish kid would get a good education. In light of the times, I am the first one in my family to graduate with a baccalaureate degree much less a master’s. Catholic schools existed so that we could get a good education and advance ourselves - Irish, German, Sicilian, Croat and African American. The sisters and brothers were often harsh - I’ll grant you that. But it was expected - the very same ideas of physical punishment existed in the public schools of that time. Not to mention what went on at home. Beaver Cleaver existed only on TV.

My generation as a bunch of hippie Kent State protesters. Didn’t happen down here. I never had long hair. I grew my beard for the Bicentennial when I was in the Navy. Did I tell you I enlisted during the Vietnam war?

What I am trying to say is that there is an untapped reservoir for you Gen X’ers. The concept has been denigrated but have you ever read anything in history about the “Moral Majority”? I think you might be surprised at how many of my generation have a totally opposite view from the more vocal.

You know Brother, you made me renmember Archbishop Rummel with this post. Many people probably didn’t know that he ordered several people excommunicated for their stand against integrating the Catholic Schools in New Orleans and this was before 1962, and desegregation in general in the United States!

And that group included the powerful politician Leander Perez from Plaquemines parish, They also probably don’t know that New Orleans Catholic Churches were desegregated long long long before that. No they don’t know those things. They believe what they want to believe.

Incidentally, I too enlisted in the Navy right out of High School, smack dab in the middle of the Vietnam war. They also probably don’t know that one of the most popular songs back in that time, 65/66 was The Ballad of the Green Berets.

Not all of us were stoned out hippies passing flowers out prior to going to love ins and getting high listening to Jimi Hendrix and the Rolling Stones.

No we had some of us, no, a lot of us actually who did the right things, tried to live our lives the right way and tried to hold on to the faith despite terrible adversity. Don’t think that the the oldsters who support female ordinations, abortions on demand and a total retooling of Catholicism are indicative of our whole generation.

They aren’t. They’re just louder and always have been.

 

[homewardbound]

They aren’t. They’re just louder and always have been.

Why is it the loud people are always the most annoying and wrong ones?

When are the moral upright of sound mind and spirit Christians going to step up and be heard?

I don’t blame any one generation for how the world is today, we have all had a hand in the bad and the good. But I look forward to a time when I am able to stand up and have my voice heard. I hope when this day comes there will be others who will stand up with me. I believe freedom of speech goes both ways, and I intend to use it.

BTW, I like the cartoon and find it funny what a debate it has turned into!

 

[Brian_C]

Silver wings, upon their chest…

Made my brother want to be a Green Beret. He played the 45 of that over and over growing up. So much so that he actually…did…become a Green Beret. Gotta love SSGT Barry Sadler.

Lol, brotherhrolf, you’re reminding me of a high school teacher I had. She said that Northwestern State was so uninteresting and out of the “counterculture” that she and her soon to be husband chained themselves to a school bench in togas to protest the price of books. They did it just so they could feel like there was SOME kind of protest movement at NSU.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Silver wings, upon their chest…

Made my brother want to be a Green Beret. He played the 45 of that over and over growing up. So much so that he actually…did…become a Green Beret. Gotta love SSGT Barry Sadler.

Lol, brotherhrolf, you’re reminding me of a high school teacher I had. She said that Northwestern State was so uninteresting and out of the “counterculture” that she and her soon to be husband chained themselves to a school bench in togas to protest the price of books. They did it just so they could feel like there was SOME kind of protest movement at NSU.

Yeah, well, I can remember when the students at Tulane and Loyola marched down Elysian Fields and tried to get us at UNO stirred up. Didn’t happen. I’ll probably get my head handed to me on a platter for this but it was true. Most of the kids I went to school with at UNO were middle class Catholic kids who either had to fund (i.e. work to pay for) their education (as I did) or got minimal support from the folks. If you went to Tulane or Loyola without a scholarship, your folks had the $$$$$.

I worked the cash register at Walgreen’s on Canal St. Took the bus. I was more interested in surviving than protesting. I won the lottery though - 63

But I was stationed in Chicago and earned 12 hours from other NSU…

My friend Palmas, no one is going to believe us. It’s too inconveinent. We ALL know that for folks of our generation we were just absolutely ready to cast off the yoke of …you know, I really don’t have the energy anymore to continue this line of arguement.

I make a pronouncement. I am not responsible for the acts of my generation. I am perfectly happy with a TLM or a reverent NO. I am a battle hardened veteran…I was the senior altarboy for my parish during the transition to the NO. If you think that all of us were happy with what happened, guess again.

 

[Moneo]

I was born in 1963, so by most estimates I just squeaked into the tail end of the “baby boom” generation. Nevertheless, I too, sincerely hope that the end of the 60s is near!

Those of us who came of age in the late 70s and early 80s have lived all of our lives constantly having the 60s shoved down our throats, and having to put up with a bunch of aging ex-hippies bleating on about their experiences and painting themselves as the greatest generation that ever lived on the face of the planet. The 60s are inevitably made out to be some kind of a golden era of human enlightenment and advancement, i.e. the kind of tripe peddled in the song “The Age of Aquarius”.

Of course there were good things about the 60s, but there were a helluva lot of bad things too. But, hey, when have you ever heard a baby boomer admit "Wow. We really blew that call?

A short list of 60s things for which aging hippies should punished for inflicting on us:

legalized abortion
Haight Ashbury
the concept of "free love"
the contraceptive mentality
experimental drug use
lowering educational standards in the name of "equality"
the widespread and idiotic idea that authoirty is a bad thing
preoccupation with a welfare state as a solution for unemployment
Yoko Ono
poems that don’t rhyme peddled as "folk music"
people that can’t sing making records peddled as "folk music"
Abbie Hoffman
Jerry Rubin
Shirley MacLaine
The Free Speech Movement
the sight of drugged-out, dirty, overweight naked people at Woodstock
Grace Slick
N.O.W.
Sister Joan Chittister
Daniel and Phillip Berrigan
macro-biotic diets
the St. Louis Jesuits

By no means is it a complete list. Feel free to add your own suggestions …

 

[ImmaculataChamp]

bp0.blogger.com/_X6SfstKQluk/R0jbZIaaciI/AAAAAAAAAMA/LDNgn-5nDQ8/s320/EndIsNear.jpg

From Catholic cartoon blogspot.

catholiccartoonblog.blogspot.com/

Thank God. Literally.