End Times Speculation - A Different View

[Servant19]

Disunity is not of God? Let me show you some examples, Tony.

Matthew 10:34
34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;…

Luke 12:51
“Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.”

Using the same logic you applied here, Jesus is not of God then. Why did you claim to accept Him then?

Only partially true, Tony. Not all good trees are of God.

Mormonism isn’t a bad religion too. They are good people & bear good fruits too. Aren’t they of God? Why didnt you yourself accept them?

Wicca is a good religion too since their motto is to harm no one, are they of God? Why didn’t you accept them?

You cannot tell me that their teachings don’t fit yours anymore. No matter how wrong or inaccurate some people claimed Mormonism or Wicca are, they are still good people and bear good fruits. So by your own logic, they are all of God & “true religions” then. You could accept all of them and unite them under one umbrella too, simply by reinterpreting their teachings. How hard can that be? Its been done many times before.

Why not now?

One perspective, the sword is not an intention to set apart those that do good and serve God selflessly divided against those that do good and serve God selflessly.

Why else would Baptism by Implicit Desire even be a de fide teaching of the Catholic Faith?

It seems that if the Catholic teaching is to acknowledge that Mormons who serve God are indeed baptised, then there is a lot to say for unity.

St. Paul himself (may my life be a sacrifice for him!) indeed chose unity of the community over minor differences in Truth.

.

 

[Servant19]

Uh huh. It is us that don’t understand. If we just studied the Baha’i faith we would all become as enlightened you. Well, thanks for your efforts, Servant, sorry that I am so dense and unenlightened. My only solace is that I am in good company. Apparently people like Thomas Aquinas, St Augustine and all the Church fathers are equally as unenlightened.

You want me to clarify my understanding? Lets just begin with a few examples:

• Christian teaching: Jesus rose bodily from the grave.
• Baha’i teaching: Jesus only rose only spiritually from the grave. Christians just didn’t understand their own holy writings.
• Christian teaching: Christ invited Thomas to touch the wounds on his body.
• Baha’i teaching: Thomas only experienced a “vision” (apparently so did all of the rest of the disciples gathered together with him). Christians just didn’t understand their own holy writings.
• Christian teaching: Jesus will return in glory on the clouds of heaven with his angels.
• Baha’i teaching: Jesus snuck back into human history as Baha’u’llah. Christians just didn’t understand their own holy writings.

Lets just leave it at that for now, for simplicity’s sake.

Now, for clarification purposes, please tell me where I have gone wrong? I have asked before but never got an answer. Is there one doctrine of the Catholic Church with which you agree? Just one. If not, why do you say you embrace Christianity as possessing truth?

Thank you, my dear friend.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I will ignore your sarcasm. Its unbecoming of your noble station.

The misunderstanding comes where you stated in your previous post:

"You say you accept Christianity yet you disagree with Christian teaching. You say you accept Islam, yet you disagree with Muslim teaching. "

The Baha’i Faith acknowledges the truth of Christianity during the End Times of the Christian Dispensation, and acknowledges Christian teaching as true. When the End Times are fulfilled and a new heaven and a new earth are heralded, it brings with it a new End Times.

We are currently living in the End Times of the Baha’i Dispensation.
That’s why Baha’is are Baha’is and not Christians or Muslims or Jews…

(I will never end with a smile in response to your posts again…you obviously don’t like it)



.

 

[tonyfish58]

Disunity is not of God? Let me show you some examples, Tony.

Matthew 10:34
34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;…

Luke 12:51
“Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.”

Using the same logic you applied here, Jesus is not of God then. Why did you claim to accept Him then?

Only partially true, Tony. Not all good trees are of God.

Mormonism isn’t a bad religion too. They are good people & bear good fruits too. Aren’t they of God? Why didnt you yourself accept them?

Wicca is a good religion too since their motto is to harm no one, are they of God? Why didn’t you accept them?

You cannot tell me that their teachings don’t fit yours anymore. No matter how wrong or inaccurate some people claimed Mormonism or Wicca are, they are still good people and bear good fruits. So by your own logic, they are all of God & “true religions” then. You could accept all of them and unite them under one umbrella too, simply by reinterpreting their teachings. How hard can that be? Its been done many times before.

Why not now?

Dear GuyNextDoor - You have posted the response to my post as you should.

It is to these passages I refer. Consider what causes the Division in those passages. It is people who accept Christ and those who do not dividing from them. The Christians remain united and Loving towards each other.

Yes Christ was not to usher in the Day of God the Day of the Unity of Mankind and the knowledge of the Oneness of religion, indeed Jesus the Christ said I have more to Say Unto you.

Now the door is open to this unity. It was not time for man to unite 2000 years agod even 1260 years ago. The Infrastructure was not in place to make it so or the mentality was not in place to make it so.

The Revelation of Baha’u’llah has released this possibility into the World, the Day of God now upon us, the infrastructure and mentality is in place to achieve it. the Book has been Unsealed.

It is now up to us now to achieve it - God give us the Love and detachment to achieve this without the necessity of the impending destruction that we are bringing upon our selves.

In Gods Love and with Hope of Unity - Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Only partially true, Tony. Not all good trees are of God.

Mormonism isn’t a bad religion too. They are good people & bear good fruits too. Aren’t they of God? Why didnt you yourself accept them?

Wicca is a good religion too since their motto is to harm no one, are they of God? Why didn’t you accept them?

You cannot tell me that their teachings don’t fit yours anymore. No matter how wrong or inaccurate some people claimed Mormonism or Wicca are, they are still good people and bear good fruits. So by your own logic, they are all of God & “true religions” then. You could accept all of them and unite them under one umbrella too, simply by reinterpreting their teachings. How hard can that be? Its been done many times before.Why not now?

Dear GuyNextDoor - The first Test of the Fruit of Religion is the Tree the Fruit come from.

Consider a bad tree can still produce some good fruit, but in the end it is destined to be cut down and be not more. The Gardner will plant a new Healthy Tree.

Thus as a Baha’i, I have my view on the founder of the Mormon Faith, this tree does not pass the Test.

Thus the unity I have with the Fruit from this tree is all that is good in comparison to Christs Fruits. The bad fruits from this tree, I need not worry about and indeed I can also be thankful for, as they will be gathered and used for compost to feed the New and Healthy tree.

There is Always a Reason, God Loves all. Who are we to not also Love all? We must strive in this world towards always cultivating the Good, Love the rest and let Gods Will be Done.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

Hi Steve,

I will ignore your sarcasm. Its unbecoming of your noble station.

The misunderstanding comes where you stated in your previous post:

"You say you accept Christianity yet you disagree with Christian teaching. You say you accept Islam, yet you disagree with Muslim teaching. "

The Baha’i Faith acknowledges the truth of Christianity during the End Times of the Christian Dispensation, and acknowledges Christian teaching as true. When the End Times are fulfilled and a new heaven and a new earth are heralded, it brings with it a new End Times.

We are currently living in the End Times of the Baha’i Dispensation.
That’s why Baha’is are Baha’is and not Christians or Muslims or Jews…

(I will never end with a smile in response to your posts again…you obviously don’t like it)



.

What kind of ‘Dispensation’ is this that just 0.1 percent of the world knows about?

Why don’t you wait until they change Anno Domini to Anno Bahaullah before you declare that a new dispensation is here?

At this rate the Ahmadis could argue it is a a Ahmadi Dispensaton with more justification and they would be just as wrong.

The end times today are the end times predicted by Jesus when he spoke of the His Return, Bahaullah has nothing to do with them or the Christ’s Return.

 

[Servant19]

What kind of ‘Dispensation’ is this that just 0.1 percent of the world knows about?

Why don’t you wait until they change Anno Domini to Anno Bahaullah before you declare that a new dispensation is here?

At this rate the Ahmadis could argue it is a a Ahmadi Dispensaton with more justification and they would be just as wrong.

The end times today are the end times predicted by Jesus when he spoke of the His Return, Bahaullah has nothing to do with them or the Christ’s Return.

Openmind, you keep persisting about this numbers thing.

Was Christianity a religion with 12 adherents at one stage? What kind of Dispensation was it with only 12 followers? Only 0.000000000001% of the world knew about it.

At that time, the Mithra worshippers could argue it is a Mithraism Dispensation with more justification, and they could be just as wrong.

Your approach to argue numbers as a reason to discount a religion as true or not is seriously defective.

.

 

[openmind77]

Openmind, you keep persisting about this numbers thing.

Was Christianity a religion with 12 adherents at one stage? What kind of Dispensation was it with only 12 followers? Only 0.000000000001% of the world knew about it.

At that time, the Mithra worshippers could argue it is a Mithraism Dispensation with more justification, and they could be just as wrong.

Your approach to argue numbers as a reason to discount a religion as true or not is seriously defective.

.

I did not say Bahaism is not a true religion. I just said Bahaullah is not a World Savior or even a World religious leader in any sense of the term.

The ‘Year of our Lord’ was not declared when Christianity had only 12 followers, it was declared when it became the dominant religion. So you should wait until that happens for Bahaullah before declaring a new dispensation. The fact is that it will never happen - Bahais will always remain a relatively small group and may disappear eventually.

Actually Mithraism was a new dispensation at that time - it was just overwhelmed by Christianity. Bahaism will never make it even to the level of Mithraism either.

The end times today are associated with Jesus and Christianity, Bahaullah does not play any part in it.

 

[GuyNextDoor]

Any thing that causes disunity is not of God. The Love of God and living the Fruits of Christ are of God. If one is not Living the Fruits then is that the Fault of the Religion or the Followers!

Look for the Love, Look for the Fruits and you find God.

A “Good Tree” can not bare “Bad Fruit”.

It is to these passages I refer. Consider what causes the Division in those passages. It is people who accept Christ and those who do not dividing from them. The Christians remain united and Loving towards each other.

Now the door is open to this unity. It was not time for man to unite 2000 years ago even 1260 years ago. The Infrastructure was not in place to make it so or the mentality was not in place to make it so.

Exactly my point. Dividing those who accepts Jesus & His correct teachings from those who do not and those who reinterprete His teachings. But you are not dividing those who accepts His correct teachings from those who do not, but uniting from everywhere “reinterpreted scriptures”. How much unity/disunity can you have before truth becomes a lie, tony? You cannot ever reconcile that.

Now lets go back to the good tree bearing good fruits. You may think that living a flawless life is bearing good fruit but that’s far from it. You can both live a flawless life & also have the Fruit of Corrupted Doctrines. Only in Jesus with His correct doctrines you find the Fruit of Life. And Jesus’ words have already been fulfilled in what you are trying to dispense here to us under the pretext of the topic in this thread:

Matthew 7:15
A Tree and its Fruit
15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"

You can show all the “love” you want but your doctrines are corrupted when it comes to Buddhism & Christianity (at least thats the two that I know of for now). No wait…the better way to say it is…you corrupt the doctrines of other religions. That’s the fruit from your tree. Exactly what you said about the fruit which looks sweet but inwardly rotten?

It seems that if the Catholic teaching is to acknowledge that Mormons who serve God are indeed baptised, then there is a lot to say for unity.

No one was talking about the Catholic Church acknowledging the Mormons. We never stand for the idea of uniting all the religions “that bears good fruits” in the world. You both did.

---

No offense but you all can tout your faith in different threads for all I care or try to “correct” us Christians that our teachings are inaccurate, but I ain’t gonna bend my knee to anyone other than Jesus Christ in our correct teachings. So when you try to correct us Christians of our Scriptures, here’s my awesome stamp of “approval”:



Lets hope this thread can finally go back to the actual topic. You all may have the last say.

P.S: I commend you both on your very persistent & evangelistic approach in a “Christian home”. Very smooth & skillful ways to put doubts & questions into people’s minds, you both.

GuyNextDoor